Kai Waa Vega Arc

Kai Bartlett has a new Vega ski out. It is the Arc, which is their beginner model. 19’6” x 20.25” puts it in between a fenn bluefin and a Carbonology boost. It is a good deal longer and bit narrower than most v8 class boats. To me it looks like it has low rails, low volume tip and tail, and lots of rocker. I bet it surfs great. Scroll down the website to see it:

www.kaiwaa.com/vega-surfski-series

Zach, would you say that Kai Wa'a and Nordic Kayaks build quality are comparable ? Was the cost of getting your Vega delivered from Hawaii inordinate ?

As far as I can tell kai waa and NK are equivalent quality. I have owned both. In my opinion they set the standards as far as prepreg ski construction.

I got my vega in the mainland usa through paddle dynamics, which is now based in Tennessee. The skis are made in china so I would assume they come in containers from china direct to the mainland US. There was no shipping fee attached that i paid. Lighter stiffer and cheaper than other carbon skis. So if the design works for you they are a bargain.

Here I thought all their skis and outriggers were made in Hawaii. A little disappointing and misleading.

And Nordic kayaks are not made Sweden!

The only company still making boats in hawaii is Kamanu composites. But their OCs end up costing $6300 instead of $4700 for a Kai Wa’a boat made in the Ozone factory in china. I think all the other boat makers left Hawaii not to get rich but just to survive.

zachhandler wrote:

I bet it surfs great.

I borrowed the demo for a few days.

It surfs better than the V-9 for me. Much, much better.

It felt corky at first - almost wobbly like a narrower boat. Maybe it's a combination of the light weight and the waterline at rest. It's 1/4" wider than my 9, so I wasn't overly concerned about tipping over but it sure felt weird initially.

It certainly is fun to downwind. I started carefully, gradually moving into more challenging lines. After a few miles I was attacking everything with wild abandon. It inspires confidence.

It works better for me than the V-9 in every way. Holds a line much better across a wave. Self centering rudder is a huge help there.

Fit and finish is the best I've ever seen. Super light. Footwell is deep, well protected. Footplate is solid and very easy to adjust. FIt at calves is ideal - good feedback there. Comfiest bucket I've ever sat in.

This was on the first day. Such a fun boat.

I gave the boat back after 2 runs.
I didn't want to risk damaging someone else's ski.
Or, depriving anyone of the sheer pleasure of this boat.

$4300 seems like a bargain for the standard layup.
$5300 for Epic Elite layup, which is heavier.

LaPerouseBay wrote:

zachhandler wrote:

I bet it surfs great.

I borrowed the demo for a few days.
It surfs better than the V-9 for me. Much, much better.
It felt corky at first - almost wobbly like a narrower boat. Maybe it's a combination of the light weight and the waterline at rest. It's 1/4" wider than my 9, so I wasn't overly concerned about tipping over but it sure felt weird initially.
It certainly is fun to downwind. I started carefully, gradually moving into more challenging lines. After a few miles I was attacking everything with wild abandon. It inspires confidence.
It works better for me than the V-9 in every way. Holds a line much better across a wave. Self centering rudder is a huge help there.
Fit and finish is the best I've ever seen. Super light. Footwell is deep, well protected. Footplate is solid and very easy to adjust. FIt at calves is ideal - good feedback there. Comfiest bucket I've ever sat in.

The Arc is 51.5 cms wide or 20.28 inches whereas the V9 is 49 cms or 19.29 inches, a difference of 1 inch, not 1/4 inch.

Stefanus wrote:

The Arc is 51.5 cms wide or 20.28 inches whereas the V9 is 49 cms or 19.29 inches, a difference of 1 inch, not 1/4 inch.

Nice catch. It's tough being a woodworker in the US and dealing with our terrible measuring system. Science and our important industries have moved on to metric. The facade of imperial units will gradually crumble with time.

My new Arc was recently manufactured. It's 5kg lighter than my V-9. (30# vs 19#)

It should be in the shipment after next, so maybe October for me.

Nothing compares to the feeling of a light ski leaping forward with the first stroke. The initial surprise will gradually fade - but the minor efforts to flick around on a downwind wave will endure. It's a game changer for me. I'll be able to do longer runs.

I strongly urge anyone in the market for a ski to test a light one. NK does the autoclave layup too.

LaPerouseBay wrote:

Stefanus wrote:

The Arc is 51.5 cms wide or 20.28 inches whereas the V9 is 49 cms or 19.29 inches, a difference of 1 inch, not 1/4 inch.

Nice catch. It's tough being a woodworker in the US and dealing with our terrible measuring system. Science and our important industries have moved on to metric. The facade of imperial units will gradually crumble with time.
My new Arc was recently manufactured. It's 5kg lighter than my V-9. (30# vs 19#)
It should be in the shipment after next, so maybe October for me.
Nothing compares to the feeling of a light ski leaping forward with the first stroke. The initial surprise will gradually fade - but the minor efforts to flick around on a downwind wave will endure. It's a game changer for me. I'll be able to do longer runs.
I strongly urge anyone in the market for a ski to test a light one. NK does the autoclave layup too.

I have found that the various Vega distributors in different countries have different dimensions for the Arc. They need to get their dimensions correct.
Before i bought my V9 5 months ago I tried tried out the Arc which had just arrived in Australia. Unfortunately I was only able to paddle it in a bay although it was very windy, and choppy in parts. I normally paddle in Sydney Harbour which has all sorts of varying conditions depending on the day. It can range from very choppy and windy, big swells, confused water, and placid conditions. Normally not many downwind days unfortunately. I found the Arc very comfortable and nice to paddle, great when I had the wind behind me. However I only weigh 70kgs and was concerned that such a stiff and light ski would react too much with the wind and rough conditions and I didn't want to take a chance and buy one without being able to test it in rough conditions. Light paddlers usually find stiff and very light boats sit too high on the waterline. My V9 is the Ultra weighing 11.9kgs. I could have got the Elite which weighs 10.7kgs but went with the heavier version for the same reason I steered away from the Arc (although the Arc is even lighter).
If you're reasonably heavier than me you should find the Arc a great boat. The Arc looks great as well and has the added benefit of being able to carry around with ease.

I am a skeptic when it comes to boat weight. A light boat is wonderful to carry off the water, but on the water I feel weight does not make a big difference. In fact the one downwind i did in a friend’s arc pro is an example of weight not mattering much. It was a day with strong and building winds and the waves were really steep. I did not have a wave deflector on the arc. The water was coming over the deck and rails faster than the bailer could handle it. On every run I would tip the boat on edge to dump a few inches of water out. But that did not help much, as the boat being very heavy with water was riding very low. I surfed for about 15 km with a bucket that was full. I would estimate it was 30- 40 kg of extra weight in the bucket. And yet the boat surfed really nicely, averaging 15kph over the entire stretch (which is a fast speed for me) . The boat was more work to accelerate, but also kept its speed up with freight train like momentum, which helped with bridging runs. It felt absurd to be paddling a 7.5 kg ski that had 5 times that weight in water sitting in it. But it was still fun and fast. Toward the end of the run the bucket finally drained, and then the boat felt more playful, but it wasn’t necessarily going any faster. The one other time I had to downwind for miles on end with a full bucket was in the original Vega. In that case the 3d printed venturi fell off so I had no drainage at all. Again the boat took harder pulls to accelerate, but once underway felt unstoppable, and my mile splits were just as fast as they would have been with an empty bucket. The skinny vega also felt incredibly stable and planted with all the extra weight in it.

Stefanus wrote:

I tried out the Arc which had just arrived in Australia. Unfortunately I was only able to paddle it in a bay although it was very windy, and choppy in parts. I normally paddle in Sydney Harbour which has all sorts of varying conditions depending on the day. It can range from very choppy and windy, big swells, confused water, and placid conditions. Normally not many downwind days unfortunately. I found the Arc very comfortable and nice to paddle, great when I had the wind behind me. However I only weigh 70kgs and was concerned that such a stiff and light ski would react too much with the wind and rough conditions and I didn't want to take a chance and buy one without being able to test it in rough conditions. Light paddlers usually find stiff and very light boats sit too high on the waterline.

Excellent point about lighter paddlers and the Arc. I think you made a good choice with the V-9.

I'm 83kg - probably in the middle of typical boat design.

My conditions are relatively easy and predictable. Straight downwind or upwind/downwind.

The worst thing I may face is the wind switching to offshore and trying to push me out too far. I load the Arc down enough to feel safe enough to go across the wind, if necessary. It happened yesterday and I was glad to have the extra weight of the 9! Great boat, super fun.

zachhandler wrote:

I am a skeptic when it comes to boat weight. A light boat is wonderful to carry off the water, but on the water I feel weight does not make a big difference. In fact the one downwind i did in a friend’s arc pro is an example of weight not mattering much. It was a day with strong and building winds and the waves were really steep. I did not have a wave deflector on the arc. The water was coming over the deck and rails faster than the bailer could handle it. On every run I would tip the boat on edge to dump a few inches of water out. But that did not help much, as the boat being very heavy with water was riding very low. I surfed for about 15 km with a bucket that was full. I would estimate it was 30- 40 kg of extra weight in the bucket. And yet the boat surfed really nicely, averaging 15kph over the entire stretch (which is a fast speed for me) . The boat was more work to accelerate, but also kept its speed up with freight train like momentum, which helped with bridging runs. It felt absurd to be paddling a 7.5 kg ski that had 5 times that weight in water sitting in it. But it was still fun and fast. Toward the end of the run the bucket finally drained, and then the boat felt more playful, but it wasn’t necessarily going any faster. The one other time I had to downwind for miles on end with a full bucket was in the original Vega. In that case the 3d printed venturi fell off so I had no drainage at all. Again the boat took harder pulls to accelerate, but once underway felt unstoppable, and my mile splits were just as fast as they would have been with an empty bucket. The skinny vega also felt incredibly stable and planted with all the extra weight in it.

I had a similar experience downwinding with an outrigger. Big Maliko, about half way thru the run I noticed water squirting out sideways, up near the bow. The hole was about 3mm, above the waterline/below the seam. A stick fish had poked a hole in the boat. Poor little guy snapped his beak off.

Anyhow, I finished the run. Freight train catching runs. Like magic, in the big rollers across pier one. Once in the harbor, it was a tad bit more work.
It had a LOT of water in it. A conservative estimate is 30 kilos.

As for my feelings about super light boats, I'm a big fan.
In my groomed downwinders, the Arc handles very similar to my 9.

In my demo, it required significantly less effort to accelerate.

A few quick efforts were enough to move me around, across, thru and over bumps. The same bumps that required a lot of effort in my 9. Total game changer for me.

I remember a similar thread that covered the lighter boat topic. From 8 years ago - Dean Gardiner himself chimed in.

Dean Gardiner wrote:

I get asked this question all the time. The simple answer is no.
The reason for this is that if you are catching runs you cannot go any faster than the runs you are catching. No matter what the boat weighs if it can surf and fit into the available chop then it will be the same.
In smaller lake and river type runs then there would be an advantage in a lighter boat as you paddle over the top of the smaller runs.
In all cases the boat shape and "surfability" are more important than a few extra kilos.
In very big conditions there may even be a slight advantage in a slightly heavier boat but that is up to the individual.
Dead flat is another story.

Well, that settles it for me. The runs I try to catch are usually going faster than I am, so I prefer the light boat - to get me up into a potential run. Sometimes the runs are small enough for me to run over, so lighter is better. Simple!

Here's the thread. surfski.info/forum/19-boats/18487-light-...ifference.html#24515

I think this line from Dean’s post sums it up for me:

“ In all cases the boat shape and "surfability" are more important than a few extra kilos.”

The vega and arc surf well when full of water because they are hulls that surf well period. Conversely a hull that does not surf well would still not surf well if it was made of 5 kg of spider silk and magic resin. As a thought experiment, consider the epic V10 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generations. Each generation surfs much better than its predecessor. On a downwind I would rather paddle a 15 kg G3 than a 7 kg G2, and I would take a 15 kg G4 over a 7 kg G3.

V-8: Length: 18'0" (5.48 m) Width: 21.25" (54 cm)
Arc: Length: 19' 6" (5.94m) Width: 20.25" (51cm)

The Arc is a high volume ski. It's also exceptionally light.

Light paddlers considering an Arc should revisit Stephanus' post. It's a big balloon of a ski.

Do light skis downwind better? - Dean's first line sums it up for me. "The simple answer is no."

Simple!

I am also under the impression that at steady state speed on flat water, weight is not that important. Here is a lot of math from Oxford University (I’ll have to take their word that it is correct) that states that flat water speed decreases 1/6th of 1% for every 1% increase in weight of boat plus crew.

eodg.atm.ox.ac.uk/user/dudhia/rowing/physics/weight.html

Based on that calculation, an 80kg paddler changing from a 14 kg glass ski to a 10 kg carbon ski of the same model will only gain 25 seconds in a one hour flat water time trial. That said, if it were an actual race with other people and you had to cover other people’s attacks and accelerations, then I imagine the weight starts to matter more. And if it is a marathon with portages, then no doubt about it, weight matters a lot.

Here's an excellent article on light vs not so light boats.

surfski.info/latest-news/story/1547/rela...in-your-surfski.html

Here's Oscar describing how to downwind in Nelo boats. I wish we had a Nelo dealer here, my downwind waves are tight and steep.

fastpaddler.com/nelo-surfski-length-info/

I've never seen a Nelo, but that looks like a lower volume pointy nose. The Arc has a lower volume pointy nose. I prefer it to a a larger, more floaty type.

Here's the Cantare', an amazing low volume outrigger. The Cantare' is a huge hit for the downwinders here on Maui. The girls are so happy. A lot of big guys have them too. Like Oscar says, don't jam the bow so much.

www.outriggerzone.com/models/cantare/

I went back to check my average speed on my first Arc demo run, 6-24. I didn't wear my Garmin that day - I use it for the heart rate. The telemetry was embedded in the Gopro footage. Average speed was near my all time record from many years ago.

I don't race a clock or people anymore and rarely check my time after a run. I do remember thinking to myself, 'wow, that felt fast.' For me, it was. Just passing along some anecdotal evidence that super light boats can be faster for some of us.

A boat shaper friend of mine - one of the fastest in ski here on Maui - told me that Ozone super light construction - whether outrigger or ski - chopped 3 minutes from a Maliko run. For everyone. After checking my data, I believe it.

I remember when those first sub 7kg outrigger hulls arrived. That's going way, way back. I'm so grateful Kai and Mike Giblin made the Arc. It fits my style of paddling perfectly. The super light weight has profoundly upped my fun factor.

I think the super light weight will be good for a lot of people. I remember a nice lady that gave up ski because it was too hard to load/unload. All she wanted to do was flat water in the mornings. An Arc would have been perfect.

Does the Arc have a drain bullet?

The Arc is a big hit here in Bellingham, WA, particularly with our older paddlers. After Ozone Northwest in the Gorge gets its next shipment (we're getting at least 3 of those here) I'm pretty sure we will have 10 or more Arcs locally. The carrying and loading weight may be a bit more important for some of us older paddlers. One of our local 80 yr olds who already has an Arc Pro is trying to get Kai to make him one with no paint to see how light he can get it.

Pic of drain.


Footplate is extremely well thought out.
Super light, strong and very adjustable for length and pedal tilt.
I put a chunk of foam under mine - because I cracked the gelcoat of all my Epics.


Waist leash attachment out back.
Quick release is on the belt.
NSI river SUP belt from long ago.



I'm experimenting with a pad behind my sacrum.
It reminds me to sit up correctly and not push back on the bucket.
If I do lean back on a wave, it's grippy and super comfy.
It seems to locate my sit bones on a good part of the bucket, I'm super comfy.
I may go with a thinner pad, but for now, it's perfect.


Handles are great. Feels like a big spectra cord inside a neoprene sleeve.


Best part of the boat is the balance point of the ski.
It's so light that every motion is instantly related back thru my sit bones.
Super fun to work on a proper stroke.
I'm so glad Giblin finally had time to make a super light ski for us old scrubs.
Arc steers like nothing I've ever experienced. Crazy fun and so many new lines available.

LaPerouseBay,

Thanks for the detail and photos of the Arc. I borrowed a local Arc for a week a month ago - loved the steering and surfing. My only issue was the bucket where I was getting immediate rubbing behind my sacrum. I tried reducing my push backward but had limited success there. As soon as I did a temporary install of my usual pad in that borrowed Arc, that problem disappeared and the bucket became possibly one of the best fitting and most comfortable I have paddled in. I am looking forward to getting my own Arc in November.

Paul