The last word... On the fastest flat water ski!

@mckengmsurfski : please, where did you get your large foot plate ?

Nelo made it for me.
I tried and attach a photo showing the difference in size between the two plates but was unsuccessful.

mckeng: Does the Nelo have a flatter keel section than the very slightly flattened elliptical section V12? I paddle a lot in 1+ m multi chop, and at times the V12-U can be a bit squirrely (directionally unstable) while making way across the dominate wave train. While running, I find the '12 to be very nicely tempered, however she is the ski that I have the most experience in. The only time I find the initial transverse stability an issue is when reaching back to retrieve my water bottle. The twitchiness probably does have an energy-draining effect on my overall endurance, though it’s not perceivable to me (twitchiness) while making haste. I'm around 95 kg (209 lbs) at present, so the added Bwl contributes in a positive manner to the transverse stab behaviors.
I would love to try a Nelo. The only skis available to paddle around here are the Stellars (I didn’t appreciate the models I tried), a few older Mills (not too bad, but heavy and double foot wells), and of course the Epics. I made the journey down to your area to pick up my ’12 last year.

No, I don't think the keel section is flatter. The Nelo seems to have significantly more rocker than the V12 though.
Yeah, I have plenty of friends who paddle the V12 and have no issue with it. It just wasn't right for me. I spoke with Wesley about it and his take was similar to mine, but like me he has paddling friends who have no issue with it.
We have a nice little surfski paddling community down here in the Chas area that has really grown over the last year.
Do you race any? If so, you should consider coming down for the Charleston Patriot Challenge at the end of April. CPC website is www.charlestonpatriotchallenge.org
If you are down this way, we'd love to have you along for a paddle and you're welcome to try my Nelo anytime.

Me
5`11`` tall
80/85kg
31 inch leg inseam
Small bum

Paddled Nelo large WWR, Uno Kevlar, Stellar SES excel and SEL sport.
Nelo not as tippy as a K1, Id say pretty close to the SES Excel in the initial but the SES has a stronger secondary in comparrison. Nelo just rolls more but very predictable. Could I paddle it in the the chop, Dont think so. Could I paddle the SES in the chop, yea with some bracing.
The Uno about the same as the Nelo both 1st and 2nd stability but the Uno is more nervous and twitchy. Nelo predictable in its roll.

The Stellars
Well I was impressed . Yes the SES is a bit more unstable than the SEL but nothing out of the ordinary and the 2nd stability is pretty good. Though not huge.
The SEL, well what a surprise. it felt like a ski that fits between the Beginners and Intermediate levels. The bucket though on my skinny boney arse wasnt a good mix. I have a broken coxic so its very tender down there and hard to get a good fit, without padding.

For me comfort and Im a K1 paddler so remember that.
The Nelo is awesome, the way a seat and legs should be. Yes a bit cramped on the feet and calves but nothing to get too upset about.
Next the Uno
Then the SES, last the SEL
All pretty good though.

Now to my very unprofessional mid packer paddler effort at speed. GPS-ed them all on flat condtions. Though the Stellars it was shallower water.
Flat out for a quick burst more than once.
SES 16km/h
Uno 16km/h
SEL 16.5km/h
Nelo 16.7km/h
Mmm a bit of a trend there. Motor not exactly the best. This was done over the whole day so fatigue wasnt really an issue but I started on the Nelo Uno SES SEL so that shows nothing in the speed of the boats really. For me anyway.

4km distance
Up wind which was very slight just rippling the surface.
SES 12.5km/h
SEL 12.5km/h
Uno 12.5km/h
Nelo 12.7km/h
Downwind same conditions no waves just ripples
SES 13.0 km/h
SEL 12.9km/h
Uno 13.0 km/h
Nelo 13.1km/h

All boats on the 4k run I managed to vary from 12 to 13.5km/h. With the Nelo and Uno to only hit 14 on the odd ocassion.
Weights
Nelo 14kg
Uno 12kg
SES 12 kg
SEL 15kg
The Stellars felt like they ran better but only slighlty. The Nelo was off the mark quickest and during the legs was easiest to surge forward. Then the Uno the next SES then SEL.
So which was best for me.
None of them.
If I wanted a flat water boat only. Nelo, Uno and SES in no perticular order.
For the rough The SEL SES . That order. The Nelo or Uno but dont think I could cope.
For waves, up and down. SEL SES Nelo Uno That order.
Remounts SEL SES. Nelo Uno about the same. In rougher water the Nelo and Uno would be a struggle.

Which one will I get?????
For everything (flat water, chop up and down wind)the SEL and pad the bum area.
For flat water an the occasional trip to the coast SES SEL maybe Nelo or Uno
For the flat and racing. The Nelo, Uno or SES
Due to being on a budget
Get the second hand Uno and a intermediate cheap spec ski for the rough, for the price of a new SES or SEL sport. All bases covered and wont have to have a ski that isnt quite perfect in every area. Though my wife wont be happy, more toys in the shed.
Well thats my take on the boats, so please be gentle Im only an average old fart. I would love to hear how a great paddler (who isn't sponsored by any company) finds the differences with these boats. As I realise I am far from being able to find the limits of these ski's. I am the limiting part of the equation. Small engine!

Though I was very surprised I couldnt really find a marked difference in flat out speed or long distance speed between them all to convince myself one ski was better than the other.
Stability though is another factor. For the Speed I could ring out of them (I wasnt struggling for stability in any of the boats to limit my efforts)I was very surprised with the SEL. It is a versitile boat that has good speed. Over marathon distances may have different results.

Cheers
Gnome

gnome wrote: Well thats my take on the boats, so please be gentle Im only an average old fart. I would love to hear how a great paddler (who isn't sponsored by any company) finds the differences with these boats. As I realise I am far from being able to find the limits of these ski's. I am the limiting part of the equation. Small engine!


Cheers
Gnome

Thanks for sharing your impressions and results, great work!

Oh, and by the way, anyone who can paddle a ski over 12km/hr for 4km doesn't have a small engine in my books

gnome: Excellent review comparison! And the engine sounds like it's running at a very respectable power output! Question: How deep (approximate) was the water at the course location(s)? Salt or fresh water? Excellent review.

McKengm: I do race quite a bit locally (within 150 miles). I'll look up your race...it'd be a good change to paddle with a different group! Edit: just added the Patriot's race to the race schedule on the website. Thanks for the notice!

Hi Doug
It was sea water. The Nelo and Uno very deep water. Both the Stellars where in sea water channel 2 metre deep at best.
The Upwind had a very small swell following behind. so the 12.5km/h with out that would be abit slower more like 12.1/12.2 if that wasnt helping. The 13 had the slight tail breeze so really the average would be corrected at 12.3/12.4km/h up and back, with rest at the turn. I dont know if there was any tide assist anywhere, but that would be minimal. The Nelo was only .2km/h(ish) faster, but was that the mental excitement of paddling a NELO. Probably.
Gnome.

gnome wrote: . The Nelo was only .2km/h(ish) faster, but was that the mental excitement of paddling a NELO. Probably.
Gnome.

All else being equal I would buy a ski if it had a .2 km/hr advantage, 200m over a 10km race can be quite a difference as it was a little while ago in a race i did where it could mean the difference between 1st and 4th.

I know what you mean about the psychological influence, I was hoping my new 29er mountain bike was as good as it looked against the clock, it turned out to be but it was a worry.

Intend on doing some testing of a few skis myself to determine the best way to go, might post some stuff up too.

Hi Gnome... Last question: What boat in this test were you most familiar with, ei, most time in the bucket? What type of boat do you normally paddle?
Yes, I'd say that a 0.2 km/hr speed advantage is a huge advantage in a race.
Ok, lastest question: did the ergos in the Nelo seem to help, and do you think that a longer distance race in the Nelo would reap a bigger advantage due to the ergonomics?
Thanks!
Doug

I'll be interested to hear Gnome's take on the last part of your question Doug, but for me, I think the ergonomics of the Nelo position definitely make a difference, and probably would be an advantage over a distance. That said, it's less stable and if you're only 0.2 kph slower in the SEL, my guess is that in conditions over a distance that ski would be faster b/c you'd have fewer/less stability issues and would be able to concentrate on your stroke and thus be faster. That said, the Nelo position is really comfortable for me, and it is a kick to paddle.

As I said in my orig post Im a K1 and long multisport kayak paddler 1st so the Nelo felt like home. I do feel the ergo's help heaps with body movement. I find most ski's awkward, pushing with the heels doesn't do it for me. Like riding a bike do you ride flat footed with the pedal axels under your balls or under your heels. I'm pretty sure the pro's ride using their balls to get extra leverage on the pedals. I coud be wrong, but that feels natural to me.
Yes on a long run the tippy Nelo or Uno would be fast initially but as fatigue develops and it would quicker than the stable boats then I would end up being slower later during the runs. So the stable boat would then catch up. Throw in textured water the stable boat will win each time. Unless I was a legend in the rough, though thats so far from the truth that wont be achieved.
Speed wise it's weird how boats work. My multisport kayak (6.2 42 wide) I can occasionally hit 18km/h for a quick burst but in that boat I find it hard to sit on 12km/h, so for long runs its usually 11.8/11.9. When I take ski's I can do the same at 12.5 and push and sustain 13 for a while but can only sprint surge at 16. Is it the longer length that helps improve the slightly higher average speed but the extra length then reduces the top end speed?
If I am to paddle flat only and for the comfort the Nelo then the Uno. I wish the Nelo was in as good condition as the Uno (like new same price). Then it would be a simple choice for that.
To paddle flat and once a month in the ocean. For the difference in speed Average speed I think the Nelo then SEL
For the ocean only SEL

Lastely the sport layup being heavier will take more energy to keep moving so that will end up being slower over a long flat distance.
Gnome

AR_convert wrote: Okay, let's assume you already have a favourite downwind and sloppy conditions ski and all you want to add to your collection is a ski to compete in the sort of races you should find K1's ...which ski fits the bill the best ?

With the release of quite a few new "Flat water" ski's recently ( and whispers that the Carbonology crew have another flat water ski in testing) I thought I'd dust off this thread to get peoples idea's. Very interested to hear from those who have seen/paddled some of the new ski's around.

EDIT: I have just heard back from Epic Australia and there will be V14 landing in Perth in January (perhaps for the Doctor race?), so I will be endeavouring to do a V14 review. Still waiting to hear from Fenn and Nelo about reviewing their skis from a marathon paddling perspective.

The Van Dusen Mohican probably should be considered in this discussion and it can be ordered with a K-1 style rudder control as opposed to pedals so you would have a full foot plate to push against. a review will be coming soon on surfskiracing.org where there is also an informative test of the Nelo Vintage.

1xsculler wrote: The Van Dusen Mohican probably should be considered in this discussion and it can be ordered with a K-1 style rudder control as opposed to pedals so you would have a full foot plate to push against. a review will be coming soon on surfskiracing.org where there is also an informative test of the Nelo Vintage.

I read Wesley's Nelo reveiw which got me excited to demo it and the other new flat water skis coming out that could be what I'm after for marathon paddling.

EDIT: I have now heard back from both Fenn and Epic, so the Glide and V14 will be available for me to review just before the Doctor race in January. Just waiting to hear from NELO!

At the start of this topic the turbo charger ski by advantage kayaks/turbo ski by dd3 was mentioned. I would like to hear from anyone regarding those skis and I realize they are the same ski. I'm interested mainly how they perform on flat water as I'm after a flat water ski only. Thanks

You and me both Rob, every once in a while I check in with DD3 through facebook who have been saying they are talking to someone to become the WA rep for about 6 months now without any joy

Here are some more flat water boats:

Carbonology Atom
Elite-Sk1
Nelo Sea Vanquish
JKK UFO
Ruahine F1
Van Dusen Mohican
Sisson Kayaks Evolution Omega
Flow Kayaks Sharp

I've just revisted the Atom and it's six minutes faster over my usual 8km time trial, compared to an Oceanbuilt. Just got to hang in there in the surf. Gary Butlion says it will reward me. May paddle it in the Aussie marathon titles in two weeks on the Swan River.

Nelo is a very good manufacturer but also very clever in advertising and users self-conscious influence. But are they the best? NOOOOOO