The last word... On the fastest flat water ski!

Okay, let's assume you already have a favourite downwind and sloppy conditions ski and all you want to add to your collection is a ski to compete in the sort of races you should find K1's ...which ski fits the bill the best and what lay-up is the best bang for your buck?

Yes we all know the 10kg carbon ski will accelerate quicker off the line but once you are up and running is a few kg going to really effect you at an almost constant marathon speed?

Well, I've not paddled one yet, but it seems that everyone who has feels that the hands down winner on flat water for pure speed is the Carbonology Atom.
Based on Rob's review I would guess he would agree.
I think there is a big group of the high performance skis bunched up behind it within a whisker of one another, most likely separated by things like fit and feel to the particular paddler.
The layup question I would think would come down to you want the lightest layup that maintains the most stiffness, this should provide better power transfer and less mass to move. How you convert this to "bang for your buck" I'm not sure.

I would like to see the Huki S1-Z and Van Deusen Mohican step into this race. The S1-Z is essentially just a bit wider than an OC-1 canoe and the Mohican is renowned for it's abilities in shallow calm conditions to fight the "shallow-water suck" that affects surfskis.

At least that is my take on this thread - that it would be a race in flat water conditions against a K1, right?

Both of those are contenders for sure.
The Mohican is a very very cool boat, but the $5500 price tag has kept me out of one so far. Not sure how it would compare to an Atom though.
I hear the S1-Z is fast fast (I've not seen one), so maybe it would be up there with (or ahead of?) the Atom.

Do those who live in a place with ocean and rivers/flat water typically have 2 different craft (ie. K1 for the flat and surf ski for the ocean)? I thought a surf ski = k1 in speed etc. so one ski should do the trick?

There are quite a few paddlers now with Mohicans. It is the only boat that I wished I had never sold. I rarely do pure flatwater so I sold both Mohicans a few years ago. But there are several occasions that I wanted a fast flatwater boat and not a K1. So when not racing my Stellar SES Ultra w/4in rudder which has as much top end speed of any multi condition ski, I bought my 2nd Westside Boat Shop ThunderboltX. While I prefer a Mohican, I could not justify the cost for only 1 or 2 races, so I bought a used BoltX last year. Tomorrow with the help of Chris(surfskiracing.com) who has 2 Mohicans, we will install a Stellar footplate in my BoltX for maximum leg drive. While certainly no surfski, it has comparable speed to the Mohican in all but the shallows where as noted above, the Mohican excels along with one of the most comfortable fits of any boat. My time trials indicate that both Mohican and Boltx have better pure flatwater speed than SES, V12, Uno Kevlar), S1X, Mako 6 etc. I inquired about the S1-Z from a local paddler, but in the end went for a more stable, less expensive, flatwater boat the boltx, not a ski, but with a full footplate, the BoltX is an inexpensive option. Two local guys, one in Canada and one in Vermont often win their races in there Westside Boat Shop Boltx and Maurader. Make not mistake, at some point I will get another Mohican, designed and built by one of the premier boat designers of our time Ted Van Dusen who lives locally. Maybe at some point I will get a chance to demo an Atom, and the S1Z and put them thru the paces to see how they compare.

I've heard several times locally that K1's are about 1kph faster than a ski on flat water.

Greg Barton is of the opinion an expert is about equal in a V12 and a K1. For normal mortals, a ski is quicker due its greater stability. See www.epickayaks.com/news/news/boat-speed-comparison

I've owned a few different skis, but I found that in flatwater conditions I've always been about a minute faster over a 7 to 10 mile course in the standard Thunderbolt (compared to the V10L and Legend that I owned). I'm in the process of purchasing a T-bolt X for flat-water racing. I hope to time trial my Stellar SE soon, an awesome boat, but I suspect a T-bolt is still a bit faster as a pure flat-water racer (plus, I really don't want to crunch the SE hull on a rock...).

A couple of skis that has not yet been thrown around in this conversation as the fastest flatwater skis are the Albatross, Turbo and Envy by DD3. The Albatross has had outstanding results in Sprint events in Australia + boasting wins and records against K1's in the Hawkesbury Classic (111km) and the 5 day Murray Marathon (404km).

The new DD3 Turbo is the perfect boat for speed in flat to medium size swells for the paddler up to 87kg. It also has a smaller leg arch so the shorter paddlers calves dont bottom out on the leg arch - Jes Duncan paddled this to victory in the womens event of the World Cup at Colleroy earlier this year. Footage of tis boat can bee seen on the dd3 website.

Okay, so not having access to a Mohican, Thunderbolt or S1-Z in Australia, what are the thoughts on any of the other elites?

I like the Atom but I may be a little big for it at 6 ft 3in and 86kg.

I like the idea of a full length ski.

Any thoughts on where the Think Uno with it's almost zero rocker sits amongst the top skis.

damien17 wrote: A couple of skis that has not yet been thrown around in this conversation as the fastest flatwater skis are the Albatross, Turbo and Envy by DD3.

The new DD3 Turbo is the perfect boat for speed in flat to medium size swells for the paddler up to 87kg.

The Turbo certainly looks quick, think it may also fall into the too small basket for me (they quote paddler height up to 6ft 2in).

As for the other skis, seems they dont have a distributor in Western Australia for me to check them out

You do know the DD3 turbo is a restickered Turbocharger from Advantage Kayaks don't you ?

www.advantagekayaks.com.au/Ocean_Ski_AK_1_Price.html

ps they make all the DD3 skis now

latman wrote: You do know the DD3 turbo is a restickered Turbocharger from Advantage Kayaks don't you ?

www.advantagekayaks.com.au/Ocean_Ski_AK_1_Price.html

ps they make all the DD3 skis now

No, I didn't. So what's the deal, do DD3 make anything? Or do they have AK build thier designs? Are AK making the Aussie Fenns under license too?

For NZ there is a local Dunedin manufacturer who has made a K2 hull [6.5M by 43cm]with a ski type deck, which is very fast on the flat. It has bulkheads and drains like other skis but also can take a K1 spray deck for the rough, with under or stern rudder for wave or grade 2+ rivers. some local tests have shown it faster than a v12 on the flat, with appropriate paddlers.
vaaka.co.nz/page2.php
I haven't tried it as im not a great swimmer.

" blistering speed with remarkable stability" eh ?

ps what exactly are Jandals ?

Jandals? What I wear to work everyday. www.kiwianarama.co.nz/jandals/

good link ! this line in particular gave me a good laugh "And more recently, Crocs, which are wildly popular with the genetically retarded, or those who’ve simply lost the will to live"

AR_convert wrote:

latman wrote: You do know the DD3 turbo is a restickered Turbocharger from Advantage Kayaks don't you ?

www.advantagekayaks.com.au/Ocean_Ski_AK_1_Price.html

ps they make all the DD3 skis now

No, I didn't. So what's the deal, do DD3 make anything? Or do they have AK build thier designs? Are AK making the Aussie Fenns under license too?

no ,yes and yes

Well I found the limits to which I can push the trusty Vault today. 17km Pinjarra to Ravenswood river marathon.

I know this might be blasphemy on this forum but I'm thinking I kinda like this flat water marathon racing.

The Vault has been great in the more open water flat stuff where K1's fear to tread but today was real K1 territory.

I didn't have a bad race but I really had to work hard just to stay with a buddy in his Atom when in previous races with a little bit of chop I have felt much stronger against him.

From my investigations I can see a new ski very soon joining the Vault. From what is available locally and what has been suggested on this forum the Think Uno is looking good, but will wait to test the new Carbonology Flash before deciding.... Oh, and I guess I should try the Atom again.

Pity those DD3 skis are no where to be found in the West.