In Depth Review - Kai Wa'a Vega Flex -vs- Fenn Swordfish S

Background -
I did 5 years of canoe racing (open canoe/Canadian canoe), then got into OC-1 for a couple years when I lived on long island sound, then bought a ski 4 years ago living in the Springfield, MA area. I started with a Epic V10 g1 (the 43cm elite level one). It was a bad choice but I knew that so moved onto a Stellar SR g1. I paddled that on flat water for about 18 months before I moved to southern California near the ocean. The stellar was truly awful on big water so sold that and got a Fenn XT g1 that weighed about 42 lbs! It was a tank but handled the ocean much better. During this time I became confident in ~6-7' ocean swell and relatively nasty conditions. In prep for The Gorge 2019 I bought a Swordfish S that spring. I've paddled that on average about 2.2x per week for a tad over 2 years. I consider myself expert in it, having conquered some of the most gnarly and sloppy conditions the ocean has to offer (up to ~10', confused seas, reflected swell, etc) as well as 2 years at The Gorge.

I bought a Flex at The Gorge and paddled it on (2) 8 mile downwind runs in 10-20 mph winds and 1-3 ft river swell, plus tonight I paddled it in the ocean for 6 miles going out and back with a 10mph wind, 1-2ft wind waves, and 2-3ft groundswell. Total Flex bucket time as of writing this is about 4 hours. I will update this review as I get more bucket time to see how my thoughts change over time and once I have a hundred hours of bucket time.
I’m a male, mid-30’s, 185lbs/84kg, about 6’/185cm tall, and athletic.
 
Executive Summary / TL;DR
I consider the SFS one of the best all around boats and it surfs like a boss. Its in the top tier of downwind, upwind, and cross wave boats – a top performer regardless of which direction you’re going. It has great stability, an ok bucket, average looks, and mediocre  build quality.
My initial impression of the Vega Flex is it is the best downwind boat ever. It downwinds stupid good but does not do as well upwind and cross wave. It has ok stability (but not great), a great bucket, amazing looks, and superb build quality.

Build quality and looks –
Flex – 10/10 (stellar)
SFS – 5/10 (average)
The Flex is stellar. Its an Ozone built boat and is on par with the most beautiful Ozone Outriggers. The 'regular' version is 20lbs and painted any array of crisp and flashy colors and designs. They have no gel coat, which I like. Paint is easier to repair and the PrePreg construction is so stiff the gel coat isnt really needed to prevent small scratches. The Pro model is 2lbs lighter from dropping 1 layer of carbon in some select spots, and it only comes in Primer Gray (but still looks sharp, just not stunning like some of the non-pros). I got a compliment on its looks the first time I took it out on the harbor, so the painted models are definitely head turning boats. Much better than any gel coated boat and only matched by other painted or vinyl wrapped boats.
 
The Pre Preg autoclave cured epoxy construction is incredibly stiff and some friends boats have taken some significant hits without damage. On the other hand the foam core sandwich construction is still susceptible to sharp object impacts. Also, its a monocoque construction with a bladder inflated from the inside, so no seam or foam stringer. the hull itself is structural. I havent had it long enough to comment on longevity, but 7 of the 8 other guys I stayed with all week have Vegas or Flexes for over a year and all are going strong with no issues.

Let me preface this next part by saying I know nothing about new Fenn/Fennix boats produced after the factory burned down. Hopefully they took that as an opportunity. Also,  I know this is a totally unfair comparison as I had the SFS in Glass Vac layup (a 2/5 on the lightness scale vs the Flex's 5/5) - The pre-Fennix construction quality of the SFS left a lot to be desired. They are/were known to leak and my experience holds that true. The putty on the seam is weak in my opinion. The foam stringer appears to be white low density styrofoam (as opposed to a higher quality, more rigid closed cell foam or nomex honeycomb). There are just a lot of little touches that could be improved finish and water-tightness wise.
 
Fittings and bungees -
Flex – 8/10 (Pretty good)
SFS  - 5/10 (Average)
The Flex has extensive bungees on the front deck and rear deck.This makes stowing gear like a small drybag, flip  flops, or your paddle easy. The span is perfect such that you can slip your paddle blades under them and then you can have 2 unencumbered hands on the boat (an important feature with a ultralight boat in high winds) The SFS has very average bungees, with only bungees running vertically behind the foot plate. This makes it difficult to find a spot for a small drybag without impeding pedal movement. I really like the Fenn carry handle up front though. It is  convenient to have a sold padded handle to grab as you hop off the boat in the surf. The flex only has the foot brace to grab, which is ok, but not as good as a dedicated handle.
 
Bucket –
Flex – 9/10 (very comfortable)
SFS – 6/10 (almost comfortable)
For reference I wear an American 34x32” pants (not sure how that translates to metric pants, sorry world) but my waist is probably closer to 33”. The SFS bucket never really jived with my butt 100%. It never caused pain but it also wasn’t totally comfortable. The bottom isn’t quite flat enough and it pinches my butt cheeks together around my coccyx in an annoying and strange way. It doesn’t rub or cause me to need padding (I generally hate padding) but compared to the horror stories some people have with buckets, I fit ok in the grand scheme. The SFS bucket is definitely deeper than the Flex and the top lip is rounded (more on this in the remount section).  I have US size 12 feet and could use another .4”/1cm of width due to my feet rubbing slightly when turning. I must choose very skinny water shoes to fit in the SFS foot area. The rear of the bucket is cut out such that you can lean back effectively on a wave and does not rub my back at all.

The Flex bucket is relatively flat on the bottom and quite shallow. It is very comfortable even in only board shorts. When I put on my 1.5mm wetsuit it got even more comfortable. The rails are nearly flat on the rear half of the bucket. The shallow bucket makes remounts a breeze but also means it’s a WET ride. Really wet. Like really really wet. Waves splash right over the side from my knees to butt. From knees forward, the rails are higher and generally similar to the SFS. The Flex rail is so low on the middle to rear of the bucket that I can put it in the water by leaning to the extreme. Also, when the bucket is totally flooded you can do a quick hip snap and dump out the top ¼ of the bucket. The rear of the bucket is aggressively cut out and you can lean back even more than in the SFS by a little.
 
Foot Plate and rudder adjustment
Flex – 8/10
SFS – 4/10
The flex uses a bike-wheel style ¼ turn cam lock to adjust the foot brace that requires no tools. It is easy to adjust. I have not had any issues with slipping, but the great Zach Handler has had issues with slipping. The track is only 1/3 the total adjustment length. This was probably done to save weight, but it means that you have to use a screw driver to move it between the forward, middle, or rear range. Its not a big deal, but if you shared the boat with someone and you required different ranges it would be somewhat cumbersome to do each time. The rudder lines are dyneema. The adjustment is tool-free and just ties off to mini dock-tie style fittings. The SFS uses locking pins for footbrace adjustment and also are toolless. The Rudder lines are stainless steel and require a metric allen wrench to adjust. The system works fine but requiring a hex wrench to adjust is annoying. Both foot plates and pedals are solid. I give the SFS low marks only for requiring a tool to adjust the pedals (I was just burned by this last night when I let a friend demo the boat and he was shorter than me but I didn’t have an allen!)
 
Bailing / Scuppers
Flex – 4/10
Stock SFS – 5/10
Modified SFS – 9/10
The flex bailer system is total junk. Kai did suuuuch a good job with the rest of this boat that the bailer really stick out as a low point on it. It’s a single bailer that goes to a horizontal tube that runs rearward about 6” before it exists the hull. You need a lot of speed (>5mph for sure) to bail. Also, the bucket is SO wet that this boats needs a 10/10 bailing
system. I am contemplating drilling my own holes and adding 2 fenn style venture bailers with bullets to the mid-cockpit. Nothing about it works. The minimum bailing speed is too high, the venturi cone is shallow which does not generate as much negative pressure on the back side, there is no bullet which increases the minimum bailing speed, the outlet area is both too large and too small – its so large that it requires high speed to generate adequate negative pressure to bail, but at the same time its too small in the sense that 2x venturi bailers with bullets would have more cross sectional surface area to bail but the bullets produce adequate negative pressure to bail at low speed (4mph).
The stock Fenn dual venturi’s weren’t much better – the scupper holes were small and lacked bullets. They also needed about 6mph to suck air which is not good. I have most of the same gripes with them as well.

So I opened up the SFS holes from about 0.5”/13mm to about 1”/25mm diameter and added 2 stellar bullets. With the large holes and dual bullets they bail rather quickly. I was able to empty a full bucket of water in 13 strokes with the assist of a wave, or about 30 strokes on flat water.  Although the original score of the Flex vs SFS is only 1 point different, it will be much, much harder to modify the Flex’s bailing system like i did with the SFS. The fenn was easy – Sand holes larger with a dremel, epoxy seal new larger holes, epoxy on bullets, done.

The Flex will require open-hull surgery to fix its bailing issue. One of the crew with a Flex had a Epic bailer installed. It resulted in a big patch and significantly harming the flawless aesthetics.
 
Kai, if you read this, please just go with Dual Venturi’s with about 1” diameter holes and dual bullets. This is the most efficient bailing system around IME. A dry footwell is not why you paddle ski. Live with wet feet when you’re stopped. It’s a fact of ski.
 
The extremely wet ride plus poor bailing almost completely negates the light weight of the hull, because you’re carrying around 1 gallon / 4L of water at all times on a downwind. Now my 20lb flex is 28lbs because it doesn’t
adequately bail…this is the biggest black mark on this boat by far. I know Kai is improving it, but please just go with the tried and true dual venturis straight thru the hull with big scupper holes and bullets.

Primary and secondary stability (for a 45cm boat)–
Vega – 6/10 (decent)
SFS – 9/10 (excellent)
 The SFS is definitely more stable than the Flex. Both primary and secondary are lower. This is in part due to the Flex being 13lbs/5.9kg lighter than my glass swordfish, but its also the hull profile. The Flex primary stability is relatively light but not twitchy at all. I feel very planted on flat water. On confused water the boat is definitely more dynamic than the SF and relies more on the stroke to stay centered. 

Secondary stability is also lower on the Flex. It has pretty good secondary stability, but not as good as the SFS. The SFS has pretty much the ideal stability profile IMO. It has reassuring primary but deep, deep, linear, predictable secondary. The swordfish just keeps getting more stable until you go over. My best guess is that the displaced volume of the swordfish just keeps increasing until you capsize. The Flex on the other hand has a good increase in secondary stability as you lean, but the righting-resistance force graph plateaus at some point and the secondary is not as deep.

This is particularly noticeable as you sit on the top of a wave at the point of maximum instability. I would wobble a tad in the SFS in nasty, steep conditions but usually did not require a brace as I crested a wave. In the Flex I was missing strokes due to bracing or just hesitating. I am sure I will adapt to the boat quickly and get over this, but there is a noticeable difference between the 2 boats. I wouldn’t say the Flex is a full step down in stability (as in a 43cm elite boat) but it’s a half step lower than the SFS.  This is significant because to jump waves you must paddle almost continuously while charging to the front of the train. I lost a couple runs last night because I either braced or hesitated for a moment and the wave got away from me. Like I said, I’ll adapt, but if you were borderline capsizing in the SFS, you may be taking a swim in the Flex. 
More on this later, but in spite of the lower stability, the Flex caught more runs than the SFS.
 
Flat water speed –
Flex – 8/10
SFS – 7/10
I try not to do much flat water paddling, but the ocean is relatively calm in the summer. Both the SFS and Flex seem quick on the flats, with a slight edge to the Flex. I haven't tested this on a GPS, but it seems just a liiiiiiiiittle faster. It would also make sense considering the Flex is slightly less stable, which implies a slightly skinnier waterline. Also the flex is 6”/15cm longer.
 
Upwind performance –
Flex – 5/10 (ok)
SFS – 9/10 (excellent)
The Swordfish is one of the best upwind boats around IMO. It has a rounded nose and a relatively sharp V keel line that goes about to mid bucket. The bow slap of the SFS is almost non existent. You really have to launch off a wave or go over a steep wave to get a loud slap. I consider the SFS one one the least-bow-slappiest boats around. Pair that with its deep and reliable secondary stability and cresting waves is not problem. I really cant say enough good things about how well the SFS goes upwind.

The flex on the other hand is a bow slapper. Although the bow is actually sharper up front than the SFS, it does not have as much of a V keel and it does not go back as far. I only paddled up wind about 3 miles so far in 1-2’ wind waves, but there was a lot of slapping. Considering I do out-and-back paddling for 97% of my runs, this means I spend a significant portion of my time going upwind. The SFS is hands down a better upwind boat by a decent margin. If I decide to sell the Flex down the line, a primary reason will be its upwind performance, which is ok at best. Its not as bad as the bathtub that was called the Stellar SRg1 (which could bow slap on a mirror-flat pond) but the Flex bow slaps noticeably up wind. 

Also, the lower stability of the Flex means that when you crest a steep wave and drop into the trough, it is wise to time your stroke such that you have power down or a brace ready as you fall into the trough on the back side. I have not taken the Flex near the surf line yet, but I can definitely say if I was caught inside on a 2-3’ breaking wave, I’d rather be in the SFS due to its stability.
 
Downwind Performance –
Flex – 11/10 (sets a new standard in downwind surfing)
SFS – 9/10 (Excellent)
First let me say both boats are downwind monsters and absolutely tear up the ocean. The SFS picks up small and large bumps well and generally wants to downwind. Its quick enough to get on some pretty fast swell and stable enough to keep the power down as you crest a wave or are taking off. I have been supremely happy with its downwind ability up to this point. The Flex is in another category though. It reset the bar for downwind surfing performance but also has a couple quirks. Here are some differences I noticed –
 
The lightness of the Flex means it accelerates quickly and this really helps catching a wave. I think I caught 50% more waves on the flex because of its lightness. Last night I had ocean swell and wind waves working together, but catching the groundswell was still marginal. I was riiiight on the line of catching or missing waves on the flex. If I was in the SFS, im sure I would have missed the majority of waves just because I was within a stroke or 2 of catching or missing the wave. If I stopped paddling for a moment I’d miss it. If I didn’t power up fast enough, I’d miss it. The lightness of the Flex really benefited when I was right on the make-or-break line. I’d be interested to try a Carbon SFS to see how a somewhat lighter version performs. But either way, the Flex is still a few pounds lighter than the Carbon SFS.
 
Related to take-off, the SFS will take off effectively at a wide angle of attack. Obviously you get the most take-off-boost when you’re 90* to the wave, but the SFS also does well at shallow angles like 30-45*. It doesn’t readily broach and it picks up the wave energy effectively even when you’re not perpendicular to the wave. The Flex on the other hand does rather poorly when you’re at a shallow angle to the wave. 
This point is well illustrated asa large fishing boat was coming in the harbor. I paddled out to meet it ¼ mile outside the break wall and surf its wave in. I have done this many, many times in the SFS. In the SF its was hard to maintain a forward heading (parallel to the boat but about 45* to the side-wake) but it was possible.
I tried the same thing in the Flex and was immediately broached parallel to the first wave, then re-broached by the second. I got turned back down-wave after a couple seconds and caught the side-wake from behind. As soon as I turned 45* to try and surf it again I was immediately and forcefully broached. In my so far limited experience the flex does not like surfing consistently at a shallow angle on the wave. So the SFS is much more versatile and forgiving when it comes to wave-orientation at takeoff. It also holds a diagonal line down a wave much better.
 
In general, I feel the flex broaches significantly more than the SFS when being overtaken by a wave or any time you’re not perpendicular to it. You have to be more aware of whats behind you and how much rudder holding power realistically is available to you on course. Also, once a broach starts on the Flex, its happening. On the SFS with
my 9” high chord DK rudder I could save a total broach sometimes.
 
So none of that downwind review so far sounds stellar. Why did I give it 11/10 then? Three reasons –Wave positioning, Steering, Wave linking. First wave positioning. The Flex has a pin tail. There is very little volume in the last 12”/30cm of the tail. Compare that to the SFS and it has way more volume at the stern. I theorize that this causes the SFS to be pushed down the wave more readily and this leads to intentional brace-braking at the top of a wave or being pushed into a nosedive into the next wave. The Flex on the other hand likes to sit higher on the wave, requiring little slowing down to maintain position. This puts you in a better position to observe whats happening in front of you want wait for the opportunity to link waves or drop into the next hole.
 
This brings up the next point –Steering. The Flex’s steering when at speed is the most nimble, responsive, light-on-the-pedals steering I have felt. When you’re going slow the steering is average, but when you’re going fast (say, over ~7mph/11kmh) the boat turns like a top. At speed it has a totally different feel. Its incredibly nimble to the point that I zig-zagged back and forth down multiple wave trains at the  gorge with ease. You just sit up high and wait for the next hole to for, then point and go. The SFS also has good steering with my massive 9” High chord DK rudder, but its slower to respond and takes more force. One thing that contributes to this is the Flex’s rudder has almost no backwards sweep (as in its almost perpendicular to the hull). This means there is less resistance to turning in the pedals. Also, the self centering rudder on the Flex works great. The rudder on this boat is the best factory rudder I’ve ever felt, but due to its propensity to broaching I will probably look for a larger aftermarket rudder like the Kai Wa’a Grip rudder or another DK Special.
 
Last, and most importantly, whatreally really makes this boat stand out is its ability to link waves. You sit high on the wave and wait. As you see the wave start to flatten out in front of you you hammer a few strokes and the boat just wants to go. Typically when passing a wave there is still a small wave to overtake in front of you. In the SFS the bow would hit the wave and kind of stall. It was hard to run up enough speed to overtake the small bump but occasionally possible. In the Flex, you start to take a run at the small bump, the bow stalls for a second, you wait and keep paddling moderately, then the bow pops up, you hammer a few strokes and overtake the wave. Once you overtake the first one in the set you keep paddling hard and gain more speed, making overtaking the next waves easier. In 16 miles at the gorge I linked more wave sets in the Flex than I have in the last 18 months. This boat just wants to link waves. You need the power and stability to power up and keep paddling throughout the set, but the boat really rewards your hard work. I feel like in the SFS I would do the same work but often not overtake the wave, which then leads to a nose-up stall on the back of the building wave.
 
So to sum up, the SF is better at an angle downwind and better on boat side wake, but the Flex is king of wave position, steering, and linking runs. I feel like an elite paddler the way the Flex linked runs. Its insane downwind. Insane…

So to sum it up –
Build Quality and Looks – Flex 10 – SFS 5
Fittings and Bungees –Flex 8 – SFS 5
Bucket – Flex 9 – SFS 6
Footplate and adjustment – Flex 8 – SFS 4
Bailer – Flex 4 – SFS 5Stock or 9 with simple improvements
Stability – Flex 6 –SFS 9
Flat Water Speed –Flex 8 – SFS 7
Upwind performance –Flex 5 – SFS 9
Downwind Performance –Flex 11 – SFS 9
 
Total score
Flex 69/90
SFS Stock 59/90
SFS Modified bailer63/90
 
Parting Thoughts –
Both boats are top oftheir class downwind boats. The Vega feels unlike any boat I’ve paddled before both due to its lightness, stiffness, and downwind surfing ability. I would really like to try it back to back with a Carbon SFS and maybe I can convince someone at Newport Aquatic Center to go out with me. The SFS is a superior all around boat due to its significantly better handling up wind and cross-wave. The Vega and Vega Flex are unrivaled in downwind ability,  steering, wave jumping, and wave positioning.

Honestly I would like to have both boats as I do 96% out and back paddling. This means when a good 20mph wind is blowing and 5’ seas are roaring, I spend 70% of my time paddling upwind for a little downwind.. In this case the SFS is the superior boat due to its reduced bow slap, deeper and more predictable secondary stability, and still more-than-adequate surfing ability.

But the Flex is GOD of surfing downwind. I might curse it slightly as I slog upwind with some bow slap and the occasional uneasy wave cresting, but as soon as that nose turns down wind im immediately reminded why I bought it in the first place. It is unrivaled in its downwind surfing.
 
Whether I end up keeping the Flex or trading it for a carbon SFS is to be seen. I’ll almost surely keep this boat at least a year before deciding to give it a fair shake, plus I NEED a flex for The Gorge next year, as its 100% downwind and this boat simply makes the river its bitch.
 
I’ll chime back in with more thoughts after I have some significant bucket time in the Flex or as revelations occur.
 
Cheers,
Marcus
 
 

Great review.  There is one reason I chose the SF S for downwinding over bluefin, v8 pro, boost, et al:  the high sides.  I like a drier ride.  I am not experienced and skilled enough in DW (3 Gorge weeks, occasional runs at home) to overcome getting swamped from a wave passing me by when I am trying to catch it. If I think I can get the wave, commit to it and go for it, and barely miss it, low sides = swamped bucket = stop and start all over = exhausting = incredible frustration.  The SF S instantly fixed that for me. Water never comes in over the sides en mass, so I can maintain my momentum and catch the next one.  For sure, a better downwinder will not have the same problem I have with low sides, but I do.  High sides is factor #1 for me right now, at my relatively low DW skill level.  Perhaps as I progress in DW, that will not be a factor.  i would love to try the flex, but low sides, wet ride, may do me in.  Thanks for the information.

Very thorough report on the SFS vs the Flex MCImes. I would like to point that the weight difference between your skis plays a big role on performance and feel.

Having owned both Vega flex (pro), SFS hybrid layup and trying the new fennix SFS (hybrid layup) I would like to give my input since everyone has a different experience and a different set of skills.

Bucket Comfort:
SFS: 9/10
SFS fennix-6/10
Flex: 9/10
Both SFS and flex seemed the most comfortable buckets that I have ever sat on.

Flatwater speed:
SFS: 6/10
SFS fennix: 7/10
Flex: 8/10
Flex has the advantage here by far.

Downwind feel and performance
SFS: 8/10
SFS fennix: 7/10
Flex:11/10
Flex surfs like nothing else I have ever paddled. Goes with the flow, easy to stay on waves, changes direction easily and punches through waves with determination.

Ease of remount:
SFS: 9/10 (low rails)
Fennix: 7/10 (high rails)
Flex-10/10 (low rails)
Both the flex and SFS are very easy to remount.

Bailer
SFS: 10/10
SFS fennix: 10/10
Flex: 7/10 (biggest area of improvement for this boat, followed by footplate adjustment system)
Epic bailer is superior as you have the option of opening and closing depending on the conditions and water temperature.

Foot plate adjusting
SFS: 7/10 (dont like needed a tool to adjust)
Fennix: 7/10
Flex: 4/10 (They dropped the ball here)
Other companies have developed a better foot plate and adjusting.

Construction
SFS:8/10
Fennix: 8/10
Flex:10/10
Pre-preg feels amazing in the water, big difference here.

Stability primary and secondary
SFS: 9/10
Fennix: 7/10
Flex: 10/10
I find the flex to be considerably more stable than the SFS specially when punching through waves

Upwind:
SFS: 9/10
Fennix: 8/10
Flex: 9/10

Overall my money is on the flex. Before I tried the flex my money was on the SFS when it comes to stability and downwind performance. I do think that we arent really comparing apples to apples as there is a weight difference of 8 lbs between the SFS, fennix and vega flex pro. IMO this matters when it comes to accelerating, catching waves and overall better performance. It also makes a difference when carrying your boat to and from the water. 

I would like to thank Kai Barlett for thinking outside the box and designing a unique downwind machine.


Surfskis I have owned or own:
1. Mako 6 (fiberglass), Nelo 560 WWR (Oscar design, gen 1), Epic V12 (Gen1 Ultra), Nelo Cinco (WWR), Nelo 520 (WWR), Elite S (Carbon), SFS (hybrid), Vega flex (Pro), Nelo 600 (hybrid), Vega (normal layup), Blue fin (glass)

Thanks for your thoughts Omar! You certianly know the boat well. Anyone with experience please chime in! more opinions are always better

After 3 more paddles, 5 hours, and ~20 miles, my initial thoughts havent changed much on the Flex-
- Bow Slappy upwind. Kind of annoying, but also surfs so well you can pick up the reflected swell and do some minor surfing upwind. The SFS does this well too.
-Divine downwind. Accelerates so fast. jumps waves insanely well, more than any other boat I've paddled.
-Broaches easily - angle of attack needs to be proactively managed at low speed like takeoff and on steep large boat wake. I will be ordering the Kai surf rudder or a massive (like 10"/25cm high chord) DK special if he thinks he can make it. In general I prefer huge rudders as I seek out large and steep waves.
-Such a wet ride. I cut a closed cell foam block to fill all the area behind the foot plate, plus shaped more foam to fill the empty area under my calves. This probably removes 2-3L of cockpit volume and helps a lot with bailing time. I'm still scheming to cut conventional bailer holes, but haven't come to terms with cutting into the boat yet. I also need to get Stellar bullets on order, as I think a Bullet will help it drain.
So so wonderful to handle off the water. 20lb /9kg boats are almost fun to carry. Doing it 1 handed with ease is a boss move.

Great thread!

Both these SS's are stupid fun, solid performers in flats will surf mosquito farts with ease.

I added these to both a Vega and Flex, cockpit drains in less than a minute and can hear it sucking bone dry around 6mph. Definitely worth it!!!! 

Matt

Venice, I PM'd you. Check your private messages.

Also, is this the set you installed? somebeachoutfitters.com/product/stellar-...-venturi-bullet-set/

Last, how did you remove the existing venturi cone? Does it come off or do you need to cut/sand it off?

Marcus - I think the flex rudder has about half the surface area of that monster DK you have on your SFS, so that might account for some of the increased tendency to broach. The vega and flex have that built in weed deflecting ridge that limits how far the rudder can extend forward of the post. I therefore would think that a big low aspect rudder on those boats would have to be increasingly imbalanced as all of the increased rudder area would be aft of the post. 

McImes,

Yup, that's it.

I used a Dremel to round out the bow side, put in 1/2" pvc to form a round drain area and back filled everything with WM repair. After that dried the pvc pulled out pretty easy and formed a nice round drain area. The part that has the screw and slides I sanded so it was under the hull height so doing that took a big part of area to be filled with WM.
I used marine silicone, so I could remove after testing, to test the different drain iterations and hood placement behind the bullet.

Hope that helps.
Matt

Great A/B comparisons thanks. I’m in a very similar position, comfy in my swordie in most DW conditions, flirted with an elite boat last 12 months but was not doing it justice on bigger DW days. Very interested to hear any updated thoughts on the Flex vs SFS six months down the track. Cheers, keep safe!

Dratz wrote:

flirted with an elite boat last 12 months

Dunno what "not doing it justice" means, but maybe it takes more than 12 months to get really comfortable? Took me 1-1/2 years @3x/wk to get there but I now feel more comfortable in v12 than v10. (Not saying I learned fast or slow, I'm just providing a data point...)

I've had this boat about 9 months now and put it through some epic conditions and just sat it in for a while now. Kirk inherited my SFS and cleaned it up nicely.

Overall I dont think my overall thoughts have changed much. Stability is more tender because it was significantly lighter than my SFS, but also the hull profile. the SFS just has deep reassuring secondary stability. The flex is still stable, but less so than my glass SFS by a 1/2 step. The lightness of the Flex at 20lb/9kg is phenomenal. better acceleration and an easy carry to the car at the end of the session is definitely noticed. Also, the monocoque construction has not leaked A DROP in 9 months.

After having my always-leaking Fenn i appreciate a water tight boat SO much. The prepreg/high temp pressurized autocalve cure carbon boats are something else. Really a class above everything else.

I still agree in short period waves upwind the Flex can be a little bow-slappy, more so than the SFS which has some of the least bow slap of any boat I paddled.

One large difference between the boats ive come to appreciate is ease of remount. the Flex has very low bucket rails, that are flat across the top of the bucket, so remounting is both easy and less painful than the more sharply rounded SFS rails. The Flex is a supremely easy boat to remount assuming you have adequate stability to stay upright in whatever conditions you're in.
The downside to the rails of the Flex is the wet ride. Wet AF. Lots of lap fulls of water on a good crackin downwind. The SFS had about half the lap fulls of water by my recollection. You still got some, but it was noticeably less due to the higher rails.

Also, I have not gotten around to replacing the bailer system with a better venturi bullet system. I still agree the V1 bailer blows majorly. Before The Gorge this year I promise to make it better. I also feel a low profile, sharply pointed wave deflector would help it a tad , just to pop out of a wave slightly earlier if you stuff the bow.

Surfing wise, I still love it. It wants to ride a wave of any size. I dont have an A/B comparison with the SFS recently, but always feel like the boat is willing to do more than I am capable of with it.
I have tried to ride the 60' ferry wake many times which is a steep 4ft/1.3m wave that comes in the same direction as west swell. I have learned to ride it better, but the Flex still broaches more easily than the SFS. I intend to adapt the 11" Ozone rudder to the Vega as well, via some custom machining, hopefully before The Gorge. My massive 9" DK on the SFS provided amazing control.

Recently I went out in some of the largest conditions ive ever experienced. Im fairly sure I rode over a 13'/4m wave generated by 25-36kt winds. It was sloppy more than anything but a fun experience. The massive swell was moving too fast to stay on, but led to some epic surges on the downwind wind waves.

Last, the Ozone boats look great. I value function over form, but when something functional and beautiful thats great. The Flex is both. Definitely better looking than any standard non-graphic boat to my preference.

Really I'm looking forward to the gorge again, because the wave form is so perfect for surfing. I did 2 runs on the flex there last year, but am really looking forward to spending a full week downwind in paradise!

See you there hopefully!

Vega Flex is amazing. I agree with all the comments MCImes, omarchacon8, jonathansanborn etc. posted.

The footplate fastening system worked well for me. The footplate rails have teeth, which serve as a solid lock with the matching teeth on the end of the locking shaft. The Arc I tested had a star wheel rather than the somewhat finicky cam lock. Both are fine with proper tension on the shaft. I prefer the kai wa'a system to the Epic. Kai's system has more locking positions.

I've experimented with a self centering rudder on my Epic boats. I noticed the improvement downwinding. My Epic boats would run better, hold a wave better and reduce my tendency to think about steering (when I should be concentrating on more important matters).

Bungees (or some other spring) up front make the pedals stiffer to push, and they are very fussy to center. I gave up due to the hassle.

kai wa'a mounts the spring out back - where it belongs. The pedals are light and feathery to the touch, with a positive detent for center.

Steering a ski downwind with the Epic system (soft pedals but no centering) was always a gigantic pain in my ass. In the videos I shoot, I notice how horrible my decisions usually are on the pedals. I clearly see it on video that when things get sketchy - I'm usually stamping on the pedals - introducing drag.

With kai wa'a pedals, I tap lightly to assure center, then try to get off the pedals. One less thing to worry about. kai wa'a boats know where to go and when to turn. A bit of body lean and a few strokes is about all it takes to have fun and glide far in a kai wa'a boat.

My V-9 has had a repair, some rail tape and a big footplate with foam on it. It weighs 30#. The Flex demo is 20#, the Arc 19#. The difference is night and day. So much easier to surf. Very, very fun downwind boats.

You can see in the V-9 video how I steer the pedals. That's not bad for me - but that's many, many years of using that big footplate (it engages only my toes). A standard footplate in an Epic boat is useless to me. I have size 13 feet and my forefoot is on the pedals. I ordered an Arc and will customize the footplate somehow. I like a big, solid footplate.
Chapeau to all the ski paddlers that have the finesse, coordination and ability to surf a ski using only your heels.

Great videos.

I notice you lean a lot more than many paddlers (and admire your confidence in doing so; years of nervously paddling K1 mean I have a habit of keeping boats bolt upright). That lean is obviously enabling you to get a really good feel for the shape of the hull and how it affects steering.

The conditions when you were paddling the flex seem to be much less confused than those for the V9.

It's hard to decipher conditions of the water unless you shoot tons of video. Both days were groomed, the V-9 day was windier. I wouldn't call the V-9 day more confused. It probably looks that way because I was charging around, frantically trying to get fast lefts in the V-9.

If you check the comments in the V-9 video, I explain to David Grainger what I'm experimenting with.

In the Flex video I was trying to hold position on the top of the larger waves rolling thru. The wind was strong earlier in the run, that's where those waves were generated.

The Flex is amazing at holding speed and loafing on top of south shore swells. It's like it has a mind of it's own. I barely had to steer at all, just aim it at something and the boat did the rest. The graph shows how fast it was going. My 9 cannot do that. I'm not nearly strong enough to pull a V-9 into waves like that. I don't even try. I was going anaerobic in both videos.

I included the V-9 video to show that I can catch a wave that size/speed in stronger wind. But just imagine what the Flex would do in that wind... The Flex has legs. It would have blazed across that water with ease - even in my hands. A stronger paddler would go very, very fast in a Flex.

I also included the 9 video in the Flex thread to help explain my feelings on the self centering rudder.

The Flex is one of the faster intermediate boats out there, and v9 is an advanced beginner boat. So the flex is naturally going to have better hull speed and take less effort to pull onto runs, but also be less stable. V9 is probably better compared against the Arc.

All the vega boats “self-steer”, though in my experience the arc less so than the flex and vega. Personally I do not think the self-steering is primarily a result of self centering rudder, but instead is the result of the hull design. The very low volume vega and flex tail sinks into the wave and as a result the hull wants to point down the fall line. As two waves merge, the direction of the fall line changes, and the vega hulls automatically changes direction with it. You can just keep the rudder in the middle (easy with the self centering rudder) and the boat will make the right turn for you. That is the “vega magic”. It makes linking waves smooth and easy. The obvious trade-off of the tail-sinking design feature is apparent when you want to point somewhere other than down the fall line. In that situation that the hull can become “stuck” in it’s direction of travel. In contrast boats with more tail volume in my experience are more “free”. Overall i prefer skinny-tail vega style hull, as in my experience most of the time when I was struggling to get my vega to go a direction it didn’t agree with, my idea was wrong and the vega’s idea was right.

Another difference, besides being in different boat classes and having radically different hull designs, is in the rudder design. Vega rudders are vertical and balanced and therefore have crisp turn initiation as well as a very light feel. The epic surf rudder (not sure if that is what you had on your v9) is less vertical and less balanced, so it is a little heavier feeling, a bit less reactive (for better and for worse) and a bit more weed resistant.

I have owned a vega and done a number of downwinds in a v9, flex, and arc. The vega and v9 are probably the two best downwind boats I have been in, though they are very different in how they surf. As far as the ARC vs the V9, the are both outstanding downwind boats, but I favor the v9 slightly. The v9 is heavier and lacks the “vega magic”, but it is nimble, stable, completely forgiving of mistakes, has no bad manners, and simply carries out any idea I have ever had in it.

I have come to appreciate that people have different opinions about which boats surf well. I think there are 2 factors. One is that boats that behave like the boats that we are used to surf well. The other is that boats that correct our deficiencies surf well, and we all have different deficiencies. When I got my vega, my biggest weakness was making smooth transitions between waves. That is the vega’s biggest strength. So for me it was by far the best surfing boat I had been in. I know another paddler who was probably better than I was a wave transitions, and he got less benefit from the vega. So we can all disagree about which both surfs better and we can all be right.

mrcharly wrote:

I notice you lean a lot more than many paddlers (and admire your confidence in doing so; years of nervously paddling K1 mean I have a habit of keeping boats bolt upright).

Sitting upright in a K-1 for years is going to pay huge dividends as your downwinding progresses. Keeping the boat itself bolt upright is not necessary. Modern downwind boats can roll like crazy and not go over. Keep your bucket super slippery and learn to trust the roll of the boat as it moves under your center of mass. As Ivan says, the only fixed points are your feet and top hands.

You will gradually become more more comfy in rougher water when your brace strokes become automatic. I surprise myself on almost every paddle with a quick little jab that keeps me from falling over. The paddle goes out, taps the water and corrects my balance faster than I can think of doing it. If we stumble while walking, we catch ourselves with a little half skip and don't realize we are doing it until it's over. Same thing happens in ski. When you start to notice that, you will relax more. And it only comes with time in the bucket.

Do not worry if a surprise wave bonks you around. Stay relaxed and you won't go over.

After a while, if you set your sights on a stretch of water and decide "I am sprinting across that stretch of water" your K-1 posture will pay huge dividends.

You will know how to drive with your hips rather than arm paddle. Your butt will slide around if the boat rolls, you won't mind. You will be sitting straight up vertical, just like you do when you paddle flat water. Downwind skis are designed with a specific foil in the hull, to make the paddler comfy if the boat rocks and rolls. It just takes time in the bucket to trust it.

The new downwind shapes are amazingly forgiving. Notice how every generation of Epic V-10 or V-12 has "more rocker"? You have already paid your dues learning posture. Learning how to trust the boat in bouncy water will come with time on the water. When those little brace jabs become automatic, It becomes easier at an increasing rate.

Jasper talks about it here, in brutal conditions.

zachhandler wrote:

Personally I do not think the self-steering is primarily a result of self centering rudder, but instead is the result of the hull design.

Yes, I agree with this. And I like how you explain the finer points of the thin tail.
My comment on the self centering rudder was mainly about my experiments with my Epic boats. When I rigged up a self centering rudder with bungees, the Epics would "hold a wave" better (zoom down the line on a single wave face). I wasn't thinking about weaving thru moguls or navigating transitions.
Zooming down the line is one of my favorite things to do in ski - similar to a wave ski - on one single wave face. It's not the fastest way to go point to point in a ski, but it is super fun. I had noticed in many of my videos thru the years that when I was dealing with very sketchy conditions, I'd oversteer.
I abandoned the self centering bungees because the Epic steering system isn't designed for it. Not because it harms the performance of the ski, but because the tension in the spectra lines makes the steering more sluggish.
kai wa'a boats have fixed that for me. I'll be able to focus on the wave face, not whether or not my pedals are straight.
Kai has included the self centering rudder on his outriggers for many years. I'm sure there's a good reason. And, it's probably just like you guys all described, it's the vertical rudder with the fine tail.

zachhandler wrote:

The epic surf rudder (not sure if that is what you had on your v9)

Yes, standard rudder. I love how the V-9 steers. As you guys all explained, a bit more sluggish than an Ozone boat.

zachhandler wrote:

I have come to appreciate that people have different opinions about which boats surf well. I think there are 2 factors. One is that boats that behave like the boats that we are used to surf well.

Yes, that's certainly why I like the Arc more than the Flex. I was instantly hooked on the Arc because it's stable and surfy like a V-9. The standard footplate height was a bit disconcerting, It felt very odd losing all that connection to the boat, but that's my problem, not Ozone's. I like the footwell and footplate system. I'll just rig up a taller one like the one in my V-9.
A week or so went by and I started reading about the Flex, so I thought I'd give it a go - just to see if I could still paddle a longer, skinnier floaty nose ski.
The loss of 'connection to the boat' due to the standard footplate was more of an issue because the Flex is tippier. Having my forefoot on the pedals is really weird, so I couldn't steer much. I just aimed at the finish and let the boat figure it out. It is magic at that. It's everything they all say. I'm a huge fan of that boat. Super stable, very fun downwind.
I also felt it was easy as pie to remount in rough water. Great boat. Highly recommended.

Just came across this thread - wow so many awesome observations and so brilliantly supported! Totally endorse repeated comments about the individual paddler styles, strengths, weaknesses and idiosyncrasies brought to bear evaluating different craft. LaPerouseBay you compare the ARC and Flex above saying you preferred the former, however second last para in your post apparently in reference to the Flex: " I'm a huge fan of that boat .. very fun downwind .. great boat .. etc". Why then the Arc for you and not the Flex? BTW I've read all comments in Zachandler's "Kai Waa Vega Arc" thread. Reason in particular, recently sold my NK610 holding onto my NK580 but having second thoughts now. Reason kept the 580 was confidence to get out in any weather, wilder the better. Pic below from local Marina wall 5 years ago end of winter gale force winds just before we went out. On big days found the 610 tricky-tippy getting out/across swells and rebound though once downwinding I'm good. Paddled 580 in very messy 30 plus knots yesterday and though out 3kms still lumpy bumpy all over the shop. Annoyed frequently struggling to get up to speed to climb onto runs, really hard work for old bastard who needs to hit the gym! Maybe I'd have been spat out a few times getting out there in 610 but reckon I'd have had miles more fun in a skinnier boat downwinding. Considering a Vega and tossing between the Flex and Arc, the latter I'll be paddling in a few days. Fairly typically after a week of brilliant SSW's 20-30 knots, next week not much going so keen for any feedback beforehand. Cheers.

Watto wrote:

LaPerouseBay you compare the ARC and Flex above saying you preferred the former, however second last para in your post apparently in reference to the Flex: " I'm a huge fan of that boat .. very fun downwind .. great boat .. etc". Why then the Arc for you and not the Flex?

Cheers Watto,
I tested the Arc first. Did one downwinder and placed my order that night.

As I was waiting for the Arc, I started looking around for reviews. I tested the Flex 3 weeks later. I kept it for a week and really enjoyed it. I did not test it upwind or try to zoom my crazy angles. (I really like dropping into steep waves and shooting down the barrel, like a surfer would do).

I'm glad I got the Arc. I've had it for a month now and it's absolutely amazing upwind/downwind. My average time to my usual turn around was 40 minutes (in the V-9), it's 30 in the Arc. Same heart rate.

The Arc at 8.6kg feels safer to me than my 13.6kg V-9. I've been experimenting with what I consider to be pretty crazy conditions and the Arc never, ever fails to amaze me in "challenging" water. Swells coming from both directions at once, blasting headwind, whatever.

I'm 82kg, so that's part of it.

Enjoy your test in the Arc. It's amazing.

Here's a link to another review of the Flex, (on Reddit). Amazing boat that Flex. Carves beautiful lines. The fore/Aft pivot point is perfect in both boats. That's what I really like about super light boats. They are so responsive to weight shift and correct posture.
I tested the Flex only on the south shore, in nice downwind conditions. North shore would probably be a lot of anxiety. That's why I got the Arc. It can handle anything.

Several ski paddlers here on Maui (much more capable than me) have Arc's for windy north shore days. Several guys have 2. Either an Elite Vega and a Flex, or a Flex and an Arc.

Enjoy that Arc test ride, it's amazing in less than ideal conditions.

www.reddit.com/r/Surfski/comments/ygy118...ski_brand/?captcha=1

Cheers LaPerouseBay. Demo'd Arc this afternoon however little wind or decent swell so only played about in rebound water then some work on the flat. Repeated same paddle shortly after in my NK 580 for Strava comparison. Though blowing 17 knots into some short swells on the Arc, by the time back in and swapped boats, wind had dropped entirely, swell much calmer ergo fair comparison not on. Will repeat another day and get out in some rough stuff.
Initial thoughts and feelings:
First despite kind of skepticism 'yeah whatever' to self-centring rudder in your comments and other reviews, I have to say, yeah, shut my fat mouth! It felt good and I barely used the rudder in the bumps on the way back in apart from "I want to be over there" moves off my line to elsewhere brewing something.
Second was even more stability than NK 580, though it's not more stability I'm chasing just greater potential 'surf-ability'.
Felt really nice bunting into the breeze and swells in the Arc, much better I reckon than NK, though comparison I'm making not from today given breeze dying off but day-before-yesterday was 3kms from Hell into a 30 knot wind and big swirling swells before turning for a 13km paddle. Partly p'weak me but NK felt like a barge!
Arc felt crazy light even against my NK which is just under 9 kilos.
Looks hot! And love the rocker which though not really an aesthetic is curvy and suggestive of good times baby!
A manageable negative was footplate adjustability. The middle of three screws holding the footplate rail only allows for footplate movement front half or back half; that is the whole rail has to be removed to allow the slider bolt to be placed one side or other of the middle screw. Maybe not an issue if once sorted out only you use the boat, however any multi-use becomes problematic. Personally I would remove it altogether - NK has only two and no probs.
vimeo.com/462114842
LPB are these the sort of conditions you've paddled in? This a pretty breezy day off Perth coast few years ago, the kind of conditions I want to be comfortable in - maybe Vega Flex, maybe not. In this clip paddling my previous NK 580 - stable as!