PFDs

I still struggle to see any hazard what so ever with my method of carrying a light, so we will have to disagree on that one. In fact the Australian National Marine Safety Committee states:

"Lights affecting the operator’s vision

Navigation lights must be installed to prevent the lights from shining into the operator’s eyes. For open boats, this can be achieved by using a shielded light on a mast or pole. This could also be achieved by placing the light support behind the operator and above head height, rather than in the bow or amidships. Some LED lights are less prone to affecting night vision than conventional incandescent lights." www.nmsc.gov.au/recreational_boating/index.php?MID=78&CID=75

The NSW rules you state make no sense what so ever as having a light on the bow will destroy all the paddlers night vision blinding the paddlers ability to pick out rocks, other water users etc on the water, unless it is sheilded from the paddlers view, and this would also necessitate turning the lights on before commencing a paddle, unless a complicated system of turning the lights on once paddling is provided, or the risk of the paddler being caught out and not being able to turn his lights on without entering the water to do so, seems daft to me.

As far as having a red light on the head, that is also a stupid idea as a red light indicates the port side of a vessel and port lights should only be visible from the port side of a vessel, unless high on a mast and above a green light. Otherwise this could result in another vessel believing the red light is a port side of a vessel and believing it is travelling in one direction when the opposite may in fact be the case.

Stew wrote: Regarding lighting, the rules in NSW are two solid white lights, positioned on the bow and stern.

Stew
Be careful when you quote "the rules"; you are in fact quoting from the "Code of Conduct for Rowing and Sculling Shells" (which includes most paddlecraft including skis, kayaks etc).
This is a RECOMMENDED code to follow not the "rules". The "rules" in NSW (for lights) are contained in Rule 25 of the "International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea". Please read (thoroughly): www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/rec_boating/CodeOfConduct.html

criticising a PFD for not having a pocket for fitting a light mast is absurd. I agree with Stew that instinctively it seems quite hazardous but if you're not an ocean paddler maybe it isn't as silly as it sounds

i was thinking it might be different for river paddlers until i remembered that in the Hawkesbury Classic i've never seen anyone with a mast sticking out of their PFD

i think you're the odd man out here Kayaker Greg!

Kayaker Greg wrote: They have no bladder pocket, the one thing that turned me away from them despite me not using the pocket for a bladder anyway, its useful for me for attaching a light and mast for night paddling.

Can't see how I've been critical by simply pointing out to RAB following his question if it has a pocket or not that it does not. Seems I'm the one being criticised for following the local bylaws.
Yes I maybe the odd one out, most fit a mast to their kayaks, but many are now following my lead, for the earlier mentioned reasons. A mast attached to a ski is not practical in my view and I have seen fellow ski paddlers fit a light to their PFD (if they are wearing one) but the light is not visible from all angles often being obscured by their head or body.

Each to their own, I merely pointed out the fact why I did not purchase a Think PFD because of the lack of this feature after Stew critiqued the use of a pocket and mast system and why I chose to use a couple of alternatives that do. Tough if you think that's being absurd, I think its a good thing that we are not limited to cloned products across the board and can choose best what suits our needs.

Here is a pic, bit awkward when home by myself. Easy to reach to turn on or turn off, no boat modifications, how long does a leg leash need to be to get wrapped around this? Stays with paddler if in the water, what use is the light upside down on a capsized boat? Doesn't matter which craft I take out. Also carry a head mounted light for back up and to shine in the direction of other approaching craft if needed.

this is possibly the lightest, lowest profile and safest/brightest, Australian-compliant PFD available in this market and you guys are negging it because you can't fly a flag from the back nor carry 3 litres of fluid in it? you must be kidding!

have you forgotten what a PFD is for? to keep you afloat and capable of remounting if possible, while not unduly inhibiting or overheating you

any paraphenalia, bulk, weight, bling or anything else you add to it is detracting from its basic function

if paddling offshore, and particularly if alone, keep flares, energy bar, PLB and/or phone in it - but secure your water/juice to the boat where the centre of gravity is low!

if you don't agree, try doing an emergency remount in big conditions with your drink bladder full, then without a bladder at all - maybe you'll change your mind!

Cant you read? Who said anything about a flag? I have not negged it at all. The light if anything adds buoyancy due to the foam that holds the mast, I earlier stated that I do not carry water in the pocket, who needs the extra weight? Not sure what your problem is with the attack, no one is forcing you to use any particular PFD, don't shoot someone down for exercising their own choice.

Times have changed.We want more from our stuff,no matter what it is.
And its all about compromise.
We are all looking for things with the features that meet our individual needs.
I too would t buy a PFD without a pocket in the back and front.
As highlighted in another post if your gear is on your boat,weather it be safety gear or otherwise,if you lose your boat
and it can and does happen all that essential gear is no longer of any use.
Point being if your off shore keep your phone,water and lights on your person.
And if your the sales person of a product sell it for what it is,and accept that it wont meet everyone's needs.

times haven't changed.

some have just lost sight of the most important attributes of a specialist piece of paddling kit!

next thing you know a PFD will be criticised for not facilitating someone's stretching routine

as for carrying 3 litres of fluid on your upper body while paddling - have i sufficently expressed my amazement?

what's that saying .... "all the gear....and ..."

(and if you're paddling offshore in the dark you will get what's coming to you - not having a light on your PFD is the least of your worries)

Kayaker greg - thanks for sharing your mast idea. I would certainly consider rigging something up like that. It can be seen from all angles and is simpler than rigging up bow and stern lights.

I think it's a very good thing that we share safety ideas with each other. Most skis have few safety features built in, so it's often up to the individual paddler to improvise solutions. Didier Plouhinec in France has many good ideas posted around web that many have copied.

svengali wrote: times haven't changed.

some have just lost sight of the most important attributes of a specialist piece of paddling kit!

next thing you know a PFD will be criticised for not facilitating someone's stretching routine

as for carrying 3 litres of fluid on your upper body while paddling - have i sufficently expressed my amazement?

what's that saying .... "all the gear....and ..."

(and if you're paddling offshore in the dark you will get what's coming to you - not having a light on your PFD is the least of your worries)

Wow... Lighten up dude.
You seem awfully pissed just b/c Kayaker Greg has tried to explain why he likes a pocket in the back of his PFD??
Or b/c someone prefers to carry a bladder in their PFD rather than on their ski, unlike you??
You don't care whether or not your PFD has a back pocket and neither should anyone else. Got it. Thank you, you've been very helpful.
(I couldn't find anywhere where Kayaker Greg said he was paddling offshore in the dark...)

In reply to nobody in particular, there is nothing wrong with being the odd man out, there is nothing wrong with looking for features that you personally find attractive in a product.
Sometimes you just discover that a lot of others think the same, or somebody else points out a better way of doing things.

That's why it is called a forum.

My own reasons for wanting a bladder pocket is not that I really think that I need to carry 3 litres just to go for a 20km paddle, but sometimes a 10 or 20km paddle turns into a 30km in the heat and possibly after other activities such as biking and the potential for dehydration is raised due to the now very long time out and the possibility of starting the next activity without having ingested enough fluids.

If I go for a long paddle in the heat with the intention of heading off for a ride afterwards, then I will need a large bladder pocket.

I can't use the footwell as it as there is simply no space unless you are a littlely and I like to have the drinking tube attached to my shoulder so under the bungies is a pain in the arse if I fall off and also sits in a way that it often is impossible to get the water out as it empties, carrying in the PFD has none of these problems.
I carry this much in my pack on the MTB and it has never been a concern in any way.
As to remounting, I actually like the way it alters my center of gravity and it makes it easier to sit in the boat sidesaddle.
Normally I am leg heavy and it is difficult to get my bodyweight far enough over to the other side.

If Think decide to put a pocket in the back, I'll buy it.
It looks good otherwise.
There is very little added weight for one layer of material to form a pouch.

At one stage I was regularly going out off Redcliff in the bay at night, I wish I had of thought of the personal mast thing myself.

Interesting solution to the problem.

We ended up with head torches, and the way that our white paddle blades used to flash as they rotated was what we hoped would make us visible from other angles.

We also used some glow sticks taped to the boat in colours that didn't blind our night vision.

So I work from seven till three thirty five days a week.
And im sure im not alone
If I want to go for a paddle before work I start in the dark.
If I go for a paddle after work I finish in the dark.
So for me not to paddle in the dark I paddle on the week end.
Yay that two paddles a week.
Offshore,inshore or up a river.(And how many people are paddling up rivers and bays in our major cities in the dark?)It doesnt really matter because if a boat comes along you will get run over no matter how bright your clothes are.A light is what is needed.So we have a person with an answer.And we have a person with no answer?
Im going with the person who at least has an answer to a problem.
As for water carrying capacity as I said I want my safety gear on my person not on my boat.And when it gets to over 30 degrees in the summer I need all the water I can carry.
So cheers to an answer and constructive discussion on how to improve safety measures in our sport.

wow, it really sucks that you finish work at 330pm yet can't finish an evening paddle while it's light. Where do you live?

here in Sydney for at least 6 months of the year with daylight saving we can finish work at 5.30pm and still have a 60-90 minute paddle after work while there's still daylight.

as for lights, you could always do what the hundreds of Hawkesbury Classic paddlers do each year for training and racing - make a mask from pvc tubing and duct tape it to your deck.

has worked for me for years. If i capsize, i simply right my boat - and voila - there's my light

i should add that i also think Kayaker Greg's light solution is a neat one - but the thing that irked me is the immediate negging of a welcome innovation from Think because it doesn't meet the very specific personal requirements that the vast majority of paddlers don't have

appreciate and applaud the product for what it is - not for what it is not

Think has sought to make an ultralight, ultrabright, unobtrusive personal flotation device for predominantly ocean racing and training

It won't help your nighttime visibility, nor quench your parched throat. Nor will it hold a fishing road, supplemental PLB antenna or Foxtel remote control.

however, i understand that it might sheath your speargun if the relevant mods are requested at the factory.

Good to see some healthy debate on safety, and that it is being taken so seriously.

We could go around in circles all day about the merits of one PFD against another, and what some people want, and some don't. We've come to the market with what we believe to be an excellent product. And like anything, it won't be liked by 100% of customers. But that's the beauty of an open market, we all have choices. And RAB and Greg's choice is not to purchase a Think Kayak PFD. No dramas.

My comment on the mast may have been taken a little out of context. I believe in the event of a capsize, the mast could be dangerous. If a ski is blown over the paddler by wind or current when he's in the water, then the issue with a leg leash may arise, as could entrapment by a submerged object. Personally, I think it's has the potential to be a hazard in the instance of a swim. Other than that, probably does the job it's intended for rather well. Hope that clarifies the point.

Regarding lights in the eyes, and positioning on the bow, my Uno has carry handles, and the light fits nicely into the recess, angled away from me. Not an issue.

I contacted NSW Maritime and asked what the situation on PFDs was for ski paddlers, both ocean and SLSA. Here's their reply, which I received today:



"A surf ski is exempt from the safety equipment requirements of the Marine Safety (General) Regulation 2009. Therefore lifejackets are not required to be worn or carried on surf skis on NSW waters (this includes both ocean and enclosed waters)."

Not sure if there is a difference in life jacket and PFD from their point of view?

Bit of hunting has revealed this:


www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/news/media-paddlecraft2011.html

And:

www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/news/media-hunterlifejackets2011.html


So it appears Maritime may has sent incorrect information in their reply today.

So if I go for a paddle south, depending on which bit of information I access, I may or may not need to put on a PFD as I go past Point Danger.

Great, clear as mud.