PFDs

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12 years 7 months ago #8411 by Stew
PFDs was created by Stew
As well as our new ski, we've also added a PFD to our range. Hope you guys like them.
The following user(s) said Thank You: ilcentaurorosso

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12 years 7 months ago #8414 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: PFDs
I'm not seeing a bladder pocket, am I blind?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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12 years 7 months ago #8423 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: PFDs
The front pocket is neoprene, which will help keep a cold drink cold in hot temps, pop a bottle or bladder in there. Strapping above it has several guide holes for drinking straws to be directed towards your mouth for easy and quick access during a race. Pocket also has drain holes at the bottom so it empties if you take a swim, or crash into a big runner and get engulfed with water. If not being used as a drink holder, you can pop a mobile phone, keys etc in there, as you can in the front side meshing pockets.

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12 years 7 months ago #8424 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: PFDs
They have no bladder pocket, the one thing that turned me away from them despite me not using the pocket for a bladder anyway, its useful for me for attaching a light and mast for night paddling.

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12 years 7 months ago #8427 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: PFDs
I've used a 500ml bladder in the front pocket, works really well. I've also tested it with a 600ml bottle and straw arrangement.

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12 years 7 months ago - 12 years 7 months ago #8431 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: PFDs
My take on PFD's, is that if I have to wear one, it needs to be able to carry a full sized bladder.

If your going long enough to need fluids, then you need more than a few hundred ml.

Hard to tell by the pictures, but I want large mesh vents to keep cool.

If I were to have multiple PFD's then maybe this is OK, but not really wanting to have more than one as I rarely wear them training, I personally think the ability to carry a couple of liters a must.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 12 years 7 months ago by Rightarmbad. Reason: spelling

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12 years 7 months ago #8434 by Dean Gardiner
Replied by Dean Gardiner on topic Re: PFDs
Gidday All

The Oceanpaddler PFDs have been very popular with ocean paddlers on all craft skis, sups and OC paddlers. I have attached a link for you. These are Type 2 PFDs so they meet the Aussie Standard and we have built them to meet USA standards also. They are available through oceansports.com in the USA.

www.oceanpaddler.com/store/categories/ac...oceanpaddler-jacket/

NSW maritime bring their PFD regulations into fruition next Tuesday November 1st. Which means all paddlers have to wear a PFD when paddling offshore and they have to meet the standard. When in enclosed waters, paddlers have to wear PFDs when more than 100 meters offshore.

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12 years 7 months ago #8438 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: PFDs
I like the Ultra PFDs, have an Ultra Trek II myself. The Oceanpaddler ones look very nice.
When you say "...built to meet USA standards also." are you saying they are USCG approved or just that they meet/exceed their standards? Hydraulics imported their PFDs and made a similar claim, but in the end they were not USCG approved. The Ultra I have is not and the Mocke I have is not.
When dealing with the authorities in the USA there is a big difference and they don't care about anything but that USCG stamp.
The legalities beyond that in the USA (ie: do you have to have one, don't you...) is a whole other discussion and very interesting, until you're trying to explain the USCG regs to the authorities on the fly.

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12 years 7 months ago #8439 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re: PFDs
Mesh vents at the front sounds great but durability is compromised.
My Mocke is tearing all over the place after 18 months. It's a great PFD but I would have liked a bit more wear out of it.
Water carrying isn't that important on an hours paddle or most downwind runs. It adds weight. Most guys carry their water on the boat.
This PFD looks low enough not to irritate aroung the neck and that's the reason most folk don't wear them.

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12 years 7 months ago #8440 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: PFDs
More proof that everyone is different...
I love my Mocke PFD. It does have a couple of little tears here and there (mostly were the pockets corners are sewn) after nearly 2 years of 4 days a week usage (I always wear a PFD), but all of the pluses of it outweigh that for me. It's lighter and more breathable than my other PFD and once I start paddling I don't notice it's there.
I also like having a liter of water with me even on a one hour paddle. Hydration, even on short paddles, is something I don't like to skimp on.
True, it is less durable, but I had a local seamstress re-enforce the areas that were tearing for $10 and it seems to have done the trick.
I'm not a fan of the bladder on the bungees behind the seat, and my leg length leaves no room for one in front of the pedals, plus my ski is not really set up well for one there anyway... So for me, a place for a hydration pack is key. I find I can fit a 2 1/2 liter bag in both my Mocke and my Ultra, though most of the time I can get by with 1 liter.

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12 years 7 months ago #8445 by Seaugi
Replied by Seaugi on topic Re: PFDs
While the pfd may benefit from some sort of mesh hydration pocket on the back. I think it would reduce one of the better aspects of these jackets - its visibility to others.

I am injured this year and was not able to race the USSSC this past August. They let me ride one one of the camera boats (the wave train photo Rob is using for the surf ski rankings is mine) I've not worn the Think jacket yet, or a Mocke. I don't even think we can get the Ocean Paddler jackets here in Canada. So my opinion comes only seeing them on others at USSSC and Molokai.

Sorry - I digress - what I'm getting at it is that the guys wearing the Think pfds could be seen for miles. Now if you went through my photos, you saw that most of the guys also wore yellow shirts which helped, but the jackets all jumped out at you. Some of the other jackets were also highly visible, but not nearly as much. They were all brand new Mockes or Ocean Paddlers (I like his hydration pocket design - well thought out).

I suppose the real issue is how and where you paddle. I often find myself paddling alone in winter, so for me visibility is an concern (I carry strobe, flares and a radio when I'm solo). In summer, once race season starts, I become laxer and the inflatable comes out. The thing that's important is that you are wearing one.

The jacket looks good to me. I have a number of friends who have already purchased one and they all are happy - but then they all put their water on the back decks and use the pockets for vhf and snacks.

Cheers

Sean Gibson

PS - One thing that I do to keep the hydration pack from sliding about under the bungies is to apply 2 sided velcro to both my boat and pack.

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12 years 7 months ago #8446 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re: PFDs
Do't get me wrong Mckengmsurfski, I love my Mocke PFD. It gets used about 5-6 days a week. I always wash it and hang it out of the sun. I prefer to wear it, a bit like the seat belt in a car. I can carry a flare, some 1mm rope and some emergency coffee money. It keeps me warm in winter. I just wish it was a bit more durable. When I need a new one I will look at the Think and probably a Mocke again.

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12 years 7 months ago #8447 by svengali
Replied by svengali on topic Re: PFDs
I have to say that I think the think pfd looks a lot more cool and comfortable than the ocean paddler!

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12 years 7 months ago #8450 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: PFDs
What do you guys that put the bladder under the bungie do if you fall off?
I have an MTI that carries a bladder and I have no problems with fit /comfort, I just wish it was a bit cooler; and I haven't paddled it in hot weather yet!

Just out of curiosity, how much does the Think weigh?
My MTI is 1.1kg in a large size.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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12 years 7 months ago #8472 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: PFDs
Ocean paddling and racing comes with a set of inherent hazards. It's how we manage the associated risks governs how safe each of us are out there. Personally speaking, if I am going for a paddle that is so long that I require more than a half liter of water, I'm not carrying that water on my back or front. I'm putting it in the foot well, in a fridge block type drink system (I use the Fenn type bottles myself). Reasons why? Firstly I do not like the extra weight on my body, secondly, having that weight up higher will affect my center of gravity, making me more tippy, and thirdly, if I do take a swim, that extra weight is going to make swimming harder, and getting back on a ski that little bit more difficult.

Someone posted that they have a mast out the back of their jacket. If I were to paddle in a area that necessitated displaying a light so high, I would have to look at the hazards of the location, and assess the risks associated, and to me that sounds too dangerous. Added to that, if you were to fall in with a mast arrangement attached to your PFD, that opens up a whole can of worms in regards to swimming, entanglement with leg leashes, submerged objects etc. I would think it safer to just pop a light on the top of your paddling cap. If more is needed, then the area might not be the best to be paddling in the dark.

With the design of our new PFD, we went to one of the best manufacturers in the world, Hiko, and set about making what we thought were the most important aspects of a good PFD. Firstly, is comfort. If something isn't comfortable, people won't wear it. The design has huge cutaways at the shoulders and neck, mobility is excellent, and there is no rubbing or chaffing. There are double straps on the side for adjustment, and the shoulder straps are lined with soft neoprene to make them super comfy, and ensure you can get a good fit to your body. Secondly is safety. The mesh pockets are there to store mobiles, radios, flares etc. Water gets in, it drains instantly. The colour was especially important. If in a rescue situation you have a really bright PFD on, the chances of being located quickly are greatly increased (Rob and his mates did a report on this a few years ago, talking to local rescue services in South Africa, who highlighted how good and bad particular colours are to identify in rough seas). The colour also makes it easier to keep track of your mates on a down wind paddle. We all know how easy it is to catch a few runs and find yourself quite a distance from the guys you out with. The third aspect was of course, are the PFDs legal? Not all available PFDs are legal for surf ski paddling, our new one is.

Like anything in design, some people will love what you do, and some will dislike it. We've worked hard on getting a really good product to the market, one which we can stand over and know it will do what is required of it in an emergency situation. There were features of the PFD which were important to us in our design, and we have factored those in, and are really happy with the finished product. I can honestly say, this is the most comfortable PFD I have used. As for it being the best.... I will let you guys judge that when you get the opportunity to try it.

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12 years 7 months ago #8473 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: PFDs

Rightarmbad wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how much does the Think weigh?
My MTI is 1.1kg in a large size.


500gms

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12 years 7 months ago #8475 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: PFDs

Dicko wrote: Do't get me wrong Mckengmsurfski, I love my Mocke PFD. It gets used about 5-6 days a week. I always wash it and hang it out of the sun. I prefer to wear it, a bit like the seat belt in a car. I can carry a flare, some 1mm rope and some emergency coffee money. It keeps me warm in winter. I just wish it was a bit more durable. When I need a new one I will look at the Think and probably a Mocke again.


Not so different then... right down to the emergency coffee money.

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12 years 7 months ago #8476 by mckengmsurfski
Replied by mckengmsurfski on topic Re: PFDs

Stew wrote:

Rightarmbad wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how much does the Think weigh?
My MTI is 1.1kg in a large size.


500gms


Nice!

When you say 'legal', you mean in Australia right? I would assume that they're not USCG approved?

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12 years 7 months ago - 12 years 7 months ago #8479 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: PFDs

Stew wrote: Someone posted that they have a mast out the back of their jacket. If I were to paddle in a area that necessitated displaying a light so high, I would have to look at the hazards of the location, and assess the risks associated, and to me that sounds too dangerous. Added to that, if you were to fall in with a mast arrangement attached to your PFD, that opens up a whole can of worms in regards to swimming, entanglement with leg leashes, submerged objects etc. I would think it safer to just pop a light on the top of your paddling cap. If more is needed, then the area might not be the best to be paddling in the dark.


This thread is not about the dangers of paddling at night and how to go about it but since you have bought it up....
Anywhere is dangerous to paddle at night without a light, a fishermen setting his nets in a tinny is not going to see us up a quiet estuary just because we are not expecting him to be there, let alone the many boats out at night fishing in more open waters. We do a night paddle every week in different locations. Our local bylaws state "at night, showing a continuous white light visible in all directions from a distance of two nautical miles." must be used at night, a small fibreglass mast that elevates this all around white light about 300mm above my head is the easiest way to comply and be seen when paddling at night, its also a better option in my opinion than fixing a mast to the ski or kayak that cannot be reached to turn on or off when needed or indeed is unseen in the event of a capsize. Also owning four skis and kayaks, means four fitting systems. The leg leash is attached to my leg and craft, its not long enough to tangle with my light mast. I have not seen any suitable light that can be attached to the top of my hat that is bright enough and able to be seen in all directions, or indeed be light enough or comfortable, and what if I loose my hat? If I become separated from my craft in the dark I would prefer to have the light on my body than upside down on my craft. With the addition of a cheap piece of foam in the back pocket of the PFD for the mast to be inserted into, the issue is easily solved. No pocket means a problem for me, so I use two other PFD's that have pockets, otherwise I might consider the Think.
Last edit: 12 years 7 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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12 years 6 months ago #8488 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: PFDs

Kayaker Greg wrote:
This thread is not about the dangers of paddling at night and how to go about it but since you have bought it up....


It's not, no, but you raised the issue of the PFD not having a suitable pouch to pop a mast into, and as a result, I raised my obvious concerns with that method of lighting. I see that mast as a hazard in the event of a swim.

Regarding lighting, the rules in NSW are two solid white lights, positioned on the bow and stern. I know Queensland have different rules where the highest point on a craft (or in the case of a ski paddler, their head) must have a red light. I sell small, water proof lights which a visible from a good distance, and are relatively cheap. A police boat pulled up one day to commend me on my lighting, saying they have lots of problems in Sydney Harbour with ski paddlers at present.
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