How strong are ski's really

Good to hear that someone is happy with their ski. I haven't actually had any problems with my Kevlar ski either and I paddle it in the ocean 3 or 4 days a week. I just wondered how tough they really are. I am buying a second ski for the really rough days and was just deciding on the layup and I'll probably buy vacuum glass just to be sure.

I'd be interested on your technique for keeping the nose down when punching over swells. Sounds like a good idea, and as you say, probably puts less stress on the ski.

I have found that any time we used a yellow gelcoat, we needed more AND it had a greater density. To find out why, you will have to turn to a chemist on or off this forum.

Here's another thing I have noticed from our customers:
Car / Truck transport: Carry your ski with too much spread = faster damage. Place your hull down on cradles = faster damage.

Human transport: Carry your ski on your shoulder, with the hull on your shoulder and you better make sure there is no wind… for you will damage the hull.

See physics and pressure points.

Then you have weaker boat builder, and then you have lemons (once in a great while)

hi mate, your knowledge of ski construction and paddling technique is second to none on this forum... curious to understand the rational behind the manufacturers and even the distributors do not have a warning sticker on the hull "DO NOT CARRY THE SKI ON YOUR SHOULDER FOR RISK OR CREATING SOFTSPOTS'... ignorance, collusion with boat repairers, greed... who knows.

Thank goodness you started this thread as i have been attempting for a few years now to highlight the same things to the paddling community... I learnt it the hard way and 3 skis being irreparably damaged ... at least I have a new friend in the boat builder and the manufacturer in question did not even want to see me when I came for my refund, he left the money in an envelope sticking out of his garage door. so now you have been warned... either stay away from those light weight rocket wonders or handle them like collecting a freshly laid egg from the chook pen!

Craddle damage, carrying skis on your shouders, shipping agents tying the crafts too tight, big surf, merciless swell, snapping wind chops are not your fiend if you are the fortunate or unfortunate owner of a hybrid composite or light weight carbon ocean ski.

I sometimes miss my fibreglass ski as I used to punish it quite a bit and it was still in its original condition execpt for the upper back deck when I sold it. I cannot say the same for my current ski.

now that the southerly have eased and the wind is less threatening, I may go paddling in peace in the knowledge that there is someone out there who not only shares my passion but my concerns...

we shoule be having more fun surfing with the mutton birds than having heated arguments with the ski distributor or chasing the boat builder to check on when he can give you back your sadly damaged ski...

ciao for now

Jean

gnome wrote:
Who would have thought there were more than I that were unhappy with the strength of ski's

I guess I'll stick my head up on this issue. I agree that across the industry there needs to be some questions asked about what we expect these skis to do. By my way of thinking if a downwind race or series is sponsored by a manufacturer then by association they are condoning the use of their product in that form of racing.

If that includes racing out and returning through breaking waves then ones would expect the craft to be able to handle those conditions....except they often dont. In just one season here in Perth I have lost count of the amount of skis I know of that how been severely damaged at the end of races.... and I'm an armchair observer to most ocean racing here, (preferring flatter water these days) I'd imagine those that attend all these races could put an accurate figure on it....and I'd also imagine it would shock some.

Such is the frequency that some have joked that our local repairers should simply park a trailer at the finish line of one particular race finish to save the poor sods having to take their broken skis to them.

On the rare occasion I race these races now I take a very cautious approach to the beach and usually end up losing 3-5 places in the process.

Maybe thats why there appears to be so many skis for sale after events
Its might not be the freight costs, it might be they know the skis are one hit wonders.
I still question the strength of our toys. Plus following some very informative replies, it looks like 99% of us have been carting our skis on the cars incorrectly,
Carrying them incorrectly etc
If your comment (AR) about downwind and usage associated by the races, well 99% of us use them incorrectly too.

Sounds like we all need to buy big trucks so we can carry them in a bubble shell and get a few helpers to carry them to the beach, make sure there will only be a tail wind and swell.
Seems a bit rediculous!!! ).
Its sort of like, buy a car and then be told you cant drive in on a road cause there might be some bumps.

This subject has been a total blast. Great lounge chair conversation though.
I wonder how long till theres another one, I cant wait.
Beats watching reality TV.
Gnome

Hi Jean and Gnome, I realise you guys don't want to mention brands but I'm getting close to buying a new ski and would really appreciate an email about what ski's and construction you had the problems with.

Completely understand your reluctance to mention brands and respect that.

Thanks , Jonathan

Waratah15 at Gmail dot com

People who are worried about damaging their surfskis should not have 10kg surfskis – UNLESS:
a) You have plenty of money to replace them
b) You are sponsored
c) You avoid all shore breaks
d) You avoid surfing waves
e) You make sure the hull ONLY TOUCHES WATER (nor your shoulder, not you cradle, not even the foam on your racks, not even the storing devices in your garage)

If you want to worry a little less about your surfski, get yourself a model that is stronger, perhaps even a surf layup (where re-enforcement is applied to strategic locations on your ski).

Race promoters know that we all have super light skis, but they sometimes still insist that the race take place through breaking shore breaks and surf. (Don’t feel bad though… they do this for mountain biking races and many other sports as well. )

So, race day: you are NOT sponsored. What do you do?
a) Complain to the promoter?
b) Complain to the boat builder?
c) Avoid the race?
d) Show up with a 14kg surfski?
e) All the above?

I have chosen to paddle 40 to 75 miles a week, and not race – until I have a lot more money.

Despite the sarcasm, most likely to be from mere frustration due the numerous phone calls to dealers, visits to the boat builder, I sincerely hope that manufacturers pay attention as this will not simply go away... until there is a stop to what a lot of consumers do not really appreciate, not getting value for money.

For commercial reasons, I also understand that there is bugger all chance that one of them posts any comments on this particular debate, but please, do yourselves a favour and take your heads out of the sand. Go and visit your factory in China, talk to your quality control employee and tell them to pull their finger out.

The paddling community are very happy and grateful that there is now great choice in skis to suit all needs, we are also grateful to the extensive R&D that goes into releasing new skis every year, this is great for the sport. It is also great that you are able to sponsor elite paddlers to promote your products. It is also great that you are able to sponsor races, without your support we would only be paddling amongst friends. There is something special about psyching yourself for a 21km race on race day. Lining up for the start, and finishing be it mid pack to last 10. A lot of us, including me, do it for the thrill of paddling, the joy of meeting people with a similar passion.

We trust that, given this is not the first time that the topic is brought to the limelight and most likely not the last, some thought goes into the equation. Thank you for otherwise being par of a fabulous sport and help promoting it to people of all ages, keep up the good work, we salute you.

Up to now no-one has mentioned brands (which is probably a good thing) but in reply to Jonathan I have owned 3 carbon Fenns which I have paddled in big surf conditions for many years without any problems. The main things to watch are impact damage, flat landings after punching through a big wave and pegging the nose in the sand coming in through a shorebreak.

I've had years of ocean paddling (East coast SA / Durban) without any of the ski problems mentioned in this thread, and am pretty surprised at some of the comments.

(I don't have any affiliation to Fenn, just giving my personal experience.)

Thanks Nige,
Nice to get a positive spin on the question, it was all starting to get a bit gloomy! Would be great to hear some more feedback from other paddlers who have had craft stand up to waves and rough water.

I'm surprised as well at the comments.

There's a lot of lightweight kevlar/nomex or carbon skis around Perth and the only major damage I'm aware of are from being dumped in shorebreak.

I tie my kevlar/nomex ski down in cradles, store it on a rack, carry it on my shoulder, occasionally bump into things when carrying it, it slaps down over waves when paddling upwind (I do try to lean forward to lessen this) and it shows no signs of any damage. As far as I know most other's around here treat their's the same. I find it much stiffer and more durable than my previous fibreglass/coremat ski

If they were as fragile as you say there'd be far more complaints.

grasshopper wrote: If they were as fragile as you say there'd be far more complaints.

Watching the Dusi race in SA there was a carbon Kevlar type ski wrapped around a rock bent nearly in two by the river, once released it popped back in to shape and the paddler carried on.....

I don't know about others, but when I mentioned recommendations, they were merely to ensure longer lasting surfskis. You are welcomed to carry them and transport them any way you like.

Nelo surfskis are well built & strong.
Twogood Kayaks (out of Hawaii) are very strong.

Paddling upwind isn't usually a concern for the boats… no matter how scary the boat sounds. Remember: it's surfing that will kill it first, land second.

Then, of course, someone will have to contradict and show me 4 surfskis that were built at 8kg for the molokai channel who have failed miserably in open ocean. When you keep pushing the envelope, that's what we are going to get.

The moral to all of this… after WE take care of our skis… is in fact the manufacturer who needs to warranty their boats when then fail for their intended purposes (and I don't mean surfing).

Same here, as per others have said, both of my 11kg Kevlar Stellars have proven to be up to 2-3 years paddling, carrying on my shoulder, hips, they live all the time on my car in cradles and they both feel as strong as the day I bought them, lost a small 5c chip of gelcoat off the very rear point of my oldest one when it got rammed the other week during a race, I did fix some scatches after running up onto an oyster bed a few years back, my 11kg carbon Fenn has lasted a year treated the same way without issue along with being transported on a ferry's deck, now my previous 15kg fibreglass ski was nowhere near as durable and I only had it 3 months and it had to have several repairs before I sold it, one was from a ramming in a race, others were just general indentations through the gelcoat and honeycomb core from sitting on the beach at the end of a race.

So having read everyones tale of woe I assume surski's aren't designed to paddle here.


Personally I or anyone I know has ever damaged a ski putting them on racks, carrying them on your shoulder, punching into or surfing on waves.

I have heard of ski's breaking when driven into sand, other ski's T boning and when I dropped my wife's ski when putting it onto the racks.

I was once told by a man that fixes a LOT of skis that you get what you pay for. The more expensive the ski the better the construction, the materials and the method and care of construction. He also said it really didn't matter who made the ski, they are all built to a cost.
So a cheap ski in glass is essentially the same method of construction no matter who the manufacturer is.

Seriously?
Even if we are to assume that all surfski builders :
(a) Buy their fiberglass and epoxy from the same source - and (b) that they are all experts at boat building.
There are lots of other contributing factors that will produce good or bad skis.

Some boats have air bubbles all over the place, some have different quality control.
WOW… I still can't believe you said that:

QUOTE: "… ski in glass is essentially the same method of construction no matter who the manufacturer is."

A lot more to glass than just being a sheet of the generic woven stuff sold at the hardware.
Different thread directions, fibre thickness, how tight its bunched together, weave pattern, unwoven, thick sheet or multiple thin sheets. Some can't be wet out by hand and will only work with vac bag or mold process.
Polyester or epoxy? Quality, curing temperature and humidity, catalist mixture, do they let it slowly cure all day and night or do they want to have the boat hard and out of the mold in hours to make two a shift.
Points where extra strength layers applied. Just glass or strategic carbon and Kevlar bits.
Core material type and quality.
Workmanship and quality control.

Hundreds of variables.
Main materials is what goes on the sales page, but you will be lucky if they release the more complex details or processes used.

Thank you… someone thinking.
A strange one was for me to learn about humidity in the air vs working with Polyester. heck, Tides probably even affect proper curing, so when I hear that "they are all the same" - I am sure it was merely taken out of context.

Dicko wrote:


I was once told by a man that fixes a LOT of skis that you get what you pay for. The more expensive the ski the better the construction, the materials and the method and care of construction. He also said it really didn't matter who made the ski, they are all built to a cost.
So a cheap ski in glass is essentially the same method of construction no matter who the manufacturer is.

I know you are simply quoting the repairer, but I doubt price is an indicator of quality given the price disparity evident in different countries depending on the importers cut! Just because one brands carbon ski is $800-1000 more expensive has not helped two skis I know of and no they are not the sub 10kg being spoken about above

From what I've heard, the latest generation of the "$800 to 1000" more expensive skis are actually heavier than the older generation, maybe that is a silent acknowledgement of the problem and an attempt to address it through slightly heavier construction(hopefully...).
In the SUP world most of the big name brands come from the same Cobra factory in Thailand, each individual company specifies the exact fibre/cloth manufacturing mix. And there is definitely no tip toeing around naming specific brand problems!