New V10

Love the term "elite creep"... So very true, but I really believe it comes down to the engine.

The elite paddlers would probably be faster on the old v10 because it was designed to be paddled at 14kph on the flat. And down wind when it all came together was so ridiculously fast no wonder the Team Epic paddlers preferred it to the V12. But it was also ludicrously fragile for those of us who actually have to pay full retail.

I've paddled the new V10 a handful of times and think it is fantastic (wish I could afford one) for intermediate paddlers. I can paddle it faster for longer than my old V10 according to the GPS but in a flat out sprint I can't match my old V10 speed.

For engines in the 10.5 to 12.5 kph range (average for an hour on the flat) I reckon the new V10 is a much better boat.

Also need to add a comment on the right boat for the right conditions. Truer words were never spoken and that is why there never was and never will be a "best boat". That's why we all need at least 2 or 3 in the stable, at least that's what I tell the wife every time she takes a peek in my shed.

So what is everyone else paddling?

Haha good one. Picking up new Stellar SEI Excel tomorrow so will put together a decent review over time comparing with my SES. Obviously a separate thread, can't hijack another.

I also have an SES and am looking for an extra ski for the rough days. I am intending to test the Swordfish, Evo II, SEI and V10 over the holidays. I look forward to your views.

Watto, good choice - you'll love it

On the "best boat for the conditions" theme, I've been switching between the V10 and Evo II over the last week.

I used the Evo for our Cape Town Downwind Race last weekend - fairly rough conditions, and we had a 3km upwind leg before tearing off downwind for 15km or so.

But then in smaller conditions a day later, I used the V10 and again on Friday.

I think part of the reason I feel twitchy in cross chop on the V10 is that there is no contact between my calves and the sides of the cockpit - so I feel as though I'm sitting on top of the boat instead of in it. I'm going to try installing some pads to sort this.

The Evo is just the easiest-to-use boat I've come across in rough water and in bigger, rougher downwind.

In cleaner, smaller runs, the V10 feels like a rocket.

So... in smaller conditions and definitely when the wind isn't blowing, I'll take the V10 every time. If it's more hectic, I'm on the Evo!

Keep changing between the two. However if you are like a lot of us the range you can paddle the v10 will gradually increase. Eventually it will be your only boat.

It was very windy and rough at our blast race yesterday. Normally I would have been struggling to stay upright in the upwind part. However I was ok and could focus on trying to maintain rotation. I beat my usual group by plenty and they normally have the advantage in heavy weather.

Downwind on the v10 was magic. The length and lack of rocker makes it very fast downwind. It just seems to punch over the swells.

Funny you say that Rob, test-paddled whole range of Think boats awhile back and felt very squashed in around calves and knees after the SES. Subsequently in rougher stuff a couple of times have felt like my legs are flapping around in space in the Stellar so last night padded out both my new SEI and SES at calves/knees and the SEI around hips. Yet to paddle either padded-out boat but will include feedback in a review at later date comparing SES and SEI. Ironically it was the tight fit of the SES around the hips and thighs that I Ioved about the boat compared with SE and SEL's. Will be interested to see how tighter knees translate offshore but as you point out Rob, that contact is important. (Looking forward to getting back into it after 2 months out of boat following accident when ski took a piece out of my leg - whole series of nasty complications but almost healed up now.)

Just below knee measurement inside lip of boat SES 34cm, SEI 32.5cm, so they've narrowed the SEI. Padded SES out 2cm each side, SEI 1cm each.

Off topic, but just measured both boats at widest point in bucket - the SES 39cm wide internally just below lip, with SEI not much more at 41cm. At my feet SES 33cm and SEI 32 cm which given the 41.6cm/46cm width of boats respectively is strange, even taking into account some reduced SEI internal width due to new cutaway sides. Whatever, more anon.

I went from the old Evo to the SL and Glide (4 months in the XT waiting for the glide). Although there are days I feel like Bambi on ice in the rough and miss the Evo, the GPS shows speeds I never achieved in the Evo. I would suggest that you stick to the faster boat in all conditions IF you are determined to handle it. In such respect the new V10 sounds like a great option. If your goal is to have a "comfortable" and solid "propulsion" paddle every time out, then 2 alternative boats are superior.

I feel the 2nd day in rough conditions in a tippy boat is always better and more stable. Probably due to fresh core muscles, better muscles memory and slightly better paddling technique. (I am starting to believe that muscle stability is somewhat over emphasized, compared to focusing on better paddling technique)

So... some interesting Millers Runs over the last few days.

Millers #1 - Wednesday.

Mild conditions, 20kt of SE, messy waves for a few km then it cleaned up somewhat.
Both my paddling buddy Dale and I were on our V10s.
Although I've been beating Dale on Millers Runs typically by 1-2min, this time he was only about 30sec behind.

Millers #2 - Friday

Similar conditions, but smaller waves, 15-20kt or so, messy at the top, better later.
This time Dale was on my Evo. Given that I've been raving about its ease of use downwind, he was very keen to try it and I thought he was going to give me a good dice. Naught, I felt the V10 went really well (although it wasn't a fast time overall, just a good time for the mild conditions). Dale came in several minutes after me. But... he was raving about the handling of the Evo and said that he'd just been physically tired from home maintenance that he'd been busy with that morning. Ok.

Millers #3 - Sunday (today)

Superb conditions - small waves but clean, pretty much from the start. Stronger wind - 20-25kt.

We had a cracking run... I dropped Dale at the top but caught my paddle on a wave and pulled myself in. I got back in very quickly, but was broadside to the waves by the time I got going again and he was past and 50m ahead by the time I was lined up.

I finally caught him again, but then it was a hectic wave-for-wave dice - until the entrance of the bay where he took a slightly wider line, caught a great wave and got ahead of me. I broached in the surf and he was in a minute or more ahead of me...

I did the run in just over 47min and I'm convinced that had I not swum (and broached a couple of times) I'd have been close to my PB.

So it's a sample of one but he was raving again about the boat - and immediately asked to paddle it again tomorrow!

For me the upside of the V10 today was the way I could keep it going fast when the waves in front flattened out - it felt that I could keep the speed up and chase the waves downwind.

Downside was that I broached twice. One broach went on and on for ages, I tried turning the boat with the rudder, but it just stalled; I tried rolling the boat onto its side, but that had no effect and it was only when the next wave arrived that the nose came around. It felt as though, with the lack of rocker, and with the nose in the water, it just didn't want to turn. I'll take full responsibility for letting it get into the situation where it did broach, and even in the broached state I was able to keep paddling, but I found it quite difficult to recover.

I felt very twitchy in it going out to the rock (800m broadside to wind and waves), but stable once heading downwind.

Here's the Garmin track.

We're hoping for similar conditions tomorrow, and it's going to be a full on head to head dice...

Looking forward to the full review, John.

I'm thinking of moving sideways from my Swordy to the SEI as my intermediate boat. Love the Swordy for how it behaves in the water but have always hated the hump and the seating position (presumably universal Fenn) gives me a sore bottom and doesn't allow optimal back posture. My main annoyance with my SES is the slow drainage (even with bullet) and that stupid bung, but ergonomically, the Stellar seems to fit me much better.

Soooo....... how are the hump and the seating position on the SEI? Similar to the SES, width notwithstanding? Drainage? Does it turn better than the SES?

Cheers, Marie.

Er whoops. Looks like we have taken a thread tangent. To get back, maybe if I drank V8 vegetable juice as a recovery drink after a Stellar paddle, with an extra quarter of a pack to make it a V10?

Like you Marie I was looking at a sideways jump from the Swordfish to the SEI but eventually got the seat to work for me (and I'm paddling with my legs a little higher now) and was put of by the volume of water, slow draining and the extra width of the seat in the SEI. Very happy with the Swordfish now.

Will be interested to try the V10L when it is released but that will probably be 8 months away over here (guessing).

Are you my secret twin, Greg?

And have you considered the Fenn Spark vs the SES?

Uh oh! Again. Ummmmm: Got a V4 in my bike. Should have 2 of them.

Yeah I tried the Fenn Spark but the tops of my thigh bones were about 5mm too wide, very disappointed in that one. Much to the relief of my friend who has the new V10 and I'm trying to beat (see, still on topic)

robin.mousley wrote: but caught my paddle on a wave and pulled myself in. I got back in very quickly, but was broadside to the waves by the time I got going again and he was past and 50m ahead by the time I was lined up.


I felt very twitchy in it going out to the rock (800m broadside to wind and waves), but stable once heading downwind.



We're hoping for similar conditions tomorrow, and it's going to be a full on head to head dice...

Rob, you're a cool customer. My HR would've spiked falling in where you did!

Having just taken delivery of a new V10 Ultra, and paddled it only once in benign conditions, I'm following this thread with great interest, and may soon be able to chime in with some valid comparisons of my own. Here are a couple, taken initially...

Last boat was an SEL Ultra which I absolutely loved aside from one main concern, and some other smaller ones. I always had an extremely difficult time bringing the SEL around in high winds. It just did not want to turn, and I experimented with Q Power Spectra line, quicker steering yokes, etc., to no avail. I've heard others complain about the same-perhaps it was a combination of rudder placement and design itself. Even with the surf rudder, in high winds, it was a bear to bring around. Upwind it was great, downwind very controllable-it sat nicely on a wave, and at 22 lbs. it was a pleasure to punch through to the next set. Through beam chop you could keep the power on without a worry. The cockpit fit was eh, the footwell held a ton of water and drained slowly, and the catch was wide-but I acclimated to that. The secondary stability was considerable, and built extremely linearly to the point you could edge it with water pouring over the gunnels. Plus, it was a damn beautiful boat in the black and yellow.

Enter the V10. Immediately, I noticed more initial stability, which lulls you into thinking this is more of an intermediate boat than it is. In the Ultra layup, it has a faster roll rate to the secondary, as compared to the Performance version, which I test paddled. The secondary is there, but is not quite as linear as the SEL; the limits lie higher on edge. The turning radius is perhaps slightly smaller than the SEL. The cockpit is very different as well; fits me extremely well, even though the gunnels are low. Epic does their cockpits well-allowing full rotation, with the ability to fit a wide variety of paddler widths. I may experiment as Erik recommended, with strips of minicell for contact at the hips, and maybe again just above the knee, at lower thigh.

The tight catch is outstanding, and the bailer IMHO, is a home run. So easy to just keep it closed until there's an inch or two of water in the well, then nudge it open a click with the heel to quickly drain, then tap it closed again.At a steady state effort on the flat, you can measure the drag induced by opening the bailer through its range of clicks/motion via the numbers on your gps.

i thought it would have more flatwater speed than it does, at least for this engine on this given day, even with the weedless rudder. It's easy enough to gradually bring to cruising speed and maintain it there, but the moment you let off, the boat seems to slow almost immediately. It feels almost electric motor-like in this regard. Here, I missed the SEL's considerable glide. I'd place it roughly at about Swordfish speed, given that's what one paddling partner pilots, the other is on an Elite, which appears noticeably faster. 'Faster' is relative though, as it applies to one individual's skill sets on one given day-maybe, like my Huki S1-R, it will make up for ultimate flatwater prowess with the ability to maintain speed through the slop and chop.

Here in the northeast US, what would be a regular Miller's Run Day likely constitutes a small craft advisory for us, but we do get jobbly, confused waters, and tight, steeply stacked, albeit small, wave sets, with plenty on the beam. Juries out how it/I will go in this, but I'll report back once our winter winds start blowing again. I've owned two V10Ls, a Legend, a Synergy Lite, etc. and keep a Mako XT double, the S1-R and a V-8 in the stable, as well. Certainly the new V10 is far more stable than the older version, but I'd also question if it's as fast. I'm looking forward to more paddles to truly see if this will be my 'silver bullet' boat for most/all conditions.

I feel very similar - can go fast, but somehow expected more glide, especially with the drain closed. That said, that's a "feeling", not "measurement" and I have not compared directly with other skis. Might as well be that the ski is quiet and feels slow when I fact is fast. Or might be just I'm not up to the task of pulling 21.5ft of any kind of ski without help from some swell behind me - I was hoping to get more glide with the new V10 than with the V10 Sport I had before, but I don't feel that's the case.

Trilobite wrote: Having just taken delivery of a new V10 Ultra, and paddled it only once ... I thought it would have more flatwater speed than it does, at least for this engine on this given day, even with the weedless rudder. It's easy enough to gradually bring to cruising speed and maintain it there, but the moment you let off, the boat seems to slow almost immediately. It feels almost electric motor-like in this regard.