New V10

There may be more interesting insights after the action on the water yesterday evening. It seems that Rob and his new V10 perform relatively better in the windless conditions with small swell that Hout Bay dished up.

Dale hasn't beaten me since he got his V10. Last night Dale beat me easily padding his Swordfish (V10 being repaired)

28 M Robin Mousley 00:58:17 New V10
29 DS Marc Cloete 00:58:20 S2
29 DS Barry Penn 00:58:20 S2
30 M Mark Preen 00:58:47 Fenn Something
31 V Gary Kroukamp 00:59:43 Rob's old Fenn Elite
32 M Dale Lippstreu 00:59:51 Swordfish
33 V Gary Shaw 01:00:01 ?
34 S Ben Brown 01:00:07 Swordfish
35 S Markus Progli 01:00:46 Swordfish
36 V Guy Lundy 01:00:51 ?
37 B Johann v Blerck 01:01:30 Swordfish

Guess there is nothing conclusive here, last week I finished within 8 seconds of my mate in his V10 and I was in my SEL, other than the time I beat him in his V10 Sport while in my V10L on flat water this is the closest I've ever gotten to him.

Another of my club mates has a new V10 ultra. He struggled a bit in tricky conditions last week so wanted to try a Swordfish which he did in the weekend, then showed up at last nights race with his new Swordfish. Conditions were too rough for me to do the full race but he had a blast and said that they were the biggest conditions he had been in for some time. He really enjoyed it and plans to run a two boat campaign for now.

For me the race went:

- Average start
- Flat section from the beach to below Chapman's Peak: Hung onto two guys who are usually in the next group, we were in a group of three.
- Rough water under Chapman's Peak: I was knocked around a bit and dropped off the group. Cocked up the turn around the rock being indecisive about which way to go and allowed 3 boats to get past on the inside.
- Rough water going back: managed to stay in contact with a double, wasn't slipping it but wasn't dropping back
- Smoother water in the bay: slipped Ben Brown (UK world marathon champ on a Swordfish - who hasn't paddled for 6 months!) who in turn slipped the double
- When Ben dropped off the double, I was able to accelerate past him, overtook the other two guys who'd come past at the rock, didn't quite catch the double.
- On the smooth water I was catching the tiny bumps with ease, the boat felt really fast.

So in summary, what I can say is that I love the V10 on flat water, still getting used to it in rough water.

I **feel** that I have an advantage in the V10 on flat water. I feel that I'm faster at the moment downwind and in rough water on the Evo II.

So like Kayaker Greg's buddy, I feel a case of "two boat campaign" coming on.

But as I approach the longest holiday I've planned for years (going on leave on 13th Dec until 13th Jan) I also feel a case coming on of "spending as much time as possible getting used to the V10!"

But it may just be that I should be on a V10 Sport. Oscar often makes the point that many paddlers are on the wrong boat.

The guy I'm chasing looses time to me in the corners but says the new V10 surfs real well, the other paddler I know with the new V10 (and just bought a Swordfish) says it turns like a dog. I don't know if its the paddlers or the boat, just their comments and watching the guy in front of me.

The V10 seems to have quite a flat hull in comparison to, say, the Evo, which has quite a bit of rocker.

I've also noticed that it has quite a wide turning circle, perhaps because of the lack of rocker.

Yeah well that all adds up, I have a kayak which has a flat section behind the cockpit and surfs unlike any other kayak I have paddled and lack of rocker will slow it in the turns. Have you tried edging it in the turns to bring in more rocker?

I have the new v10 ultra. I have done a bunch of races and can confirm it turns like a dog. I'm going to try edging it more.
I'm running a two boat setup with a carbon xt. When I do the downwinds, eg narabeen, king of the harbour I take the xt. For squad (ocean paddler) I have just started with the v10
For flatwater racing I use the v10. I did the bridge to bridge last weekend, 14 Kms flat water in the v10. I got 4th over the line in a pretty weak field. However I beat the guys I used to tangle with by 5-8 minutes. They were pissed.
The more I paddle my v10 the more I love it. But you have to be stable in it to go quick like any boat. I know it blows my xt away with ease when I can get the power down.

Love2ski wrote: I have the new v10 ultra. I have done a bunch of races and can confirm it turns like a dog. I'm going to try edging it more.
I'm running a two boat setup with a carbon xt. When I do the downwinds, eg narabeen, king of the harbour I take the xt. For squad (ocean paddler) I have just started with the v10
For flatwater racing I use the v10. I did the bridge to bridge last weekend, 14 Kms flat water in the v10. I got 4th over the line in a pretty weak field. However I beat the guys I used to tangle with by 5-8 minutes. They were pissed.
The more I paddle my v10 the more I love it. But you have to be stable in it to go quick like any boat. I know it blows my xt away with ease when I can get the power down.

Pretty much matches my thoughts.

How long have you had your new V10 and how often do you get on the water?

My latest V10 saga...

That whole “getting the power down” thing was really impressed upon me the other day. I went out for a cruise with a fellow paddler sunday (he’s a much better paddler). We were going to do a downwind but someone turned off the wind. So instead of being in my SR for the downwind paddle i switched to my two month old new V10 for the flat water. We paddled off to where there was some bouncy water with lots of reflected messiness but within my ability. It was mild by most peoples standards but It was very good practice for me as i have been paddling the V10 mostly in flat water. I suppose it was a bit boring for my paddle buddy as it slowed me down to what was I’m sure a pointless pace for him. On the way home the wind picked back up. About 600 meters from home we turned into the wind and some much longer fetch for the final stretch home and i began to have some difficulties. The wind was gusting to maybe 25-30knots and there was a lot of reflecting chop from close by bulkheads and ship hulls. I was in much bigger and more confused water (still not that big) than i had been in in the V10 and had a hard time putting much power down if any as i was spending most of my time trying to stay upright. Combined with the stiff gusts i came to a halt and with no forward momentum my bow washed down wind and i went broadside to the reflecting chop. The V10s turning radius became an issue as i was now facing ships and bulkheads about 30 meters away and there was no way i was going to get the boat turned back up wind with so little room and the fact that i have my peddles angled forward effectively reducing my turning radius even more. So i turned downwind and paddled to a small beach 100 meters away where i took out. My paddling partner, ever patient, made sure i was good and paddled back the rest of the way home. It was a bit of a shock for me as one minuet i was doing fine and moments later my stability was bad enough that i couldn’t put power down at all. I have only bailed on a paddle once before 20 years ago when i was on a white water trip that was way over my head. Ego bruised, my excuses are….. Part, I was favoring my right shoulder and its dubious rotator cuff and i won’t give it 100% power for fear of messing it up again, plus my stability was suffering a little being tired after a confused water work out earlier in the paddle (who new you had all those other core muscles that don’t get a workout in flat water?) . I paddle 4-5 days a week so Im in moderately good paddling shape so in reality its all back to stability issues. . If i had been in my SR it would have been a non event and the reflecting chop inconsequential . Its amazing to me how different these two boats are. I feel comfortable in almost anything in the SR and the V10 challenges me totally in moderate conditions at best. I am a lot faster in the V10 on the flats though..

What i learned… I need to spend a lot more time in confused water in the V10, but not in 30 knots just yet.

Need to put my peddles back flat again as there forward angel might have contributed to me loosing the bow on the first place.

Work on edging my turns more. Its much easy on the SR and i do it without thinking but it just makes me feel like I’m going to fall over on the V10.

I’m very happy i didn't buy a less stable ski.

Get back on the horse…

Bill

The new V10 seat rim is lower and wider than some other skis. Coupled with a low waterline beam sets it apart from others that you might be more used to.

You might try to tape some 15 cm x 5 cm strips of closed cell foam to the inside edge of the seat rim - not so much that it compresses against you, but just enough so that your hips "feel" the inside of the cockpit rim all the time. It should make you feel a bit less "wobbly" in the V10 on rough water. Erik

So far I have yet to be convinced that the v10 is anything but a very good intermediate ski. It isn't the magic fast as an elite ski, stable as an xt that everyone seems to be espousing.

My observations are that it is roughly the same speed as my Vault. When our paddling mate Cheeseman puts on a burst he makes us work, but doesn't disappear into the distance. If we go downwind and its clean and organised it's pretty even, but the messier it gets I feel the Vault has an advantage. Not a big advantage, but an advantage.

My gut feeling is that in a big downwind the v10 may run better than the Vault, but haven't had the chance to check this out yet.

I would consider buying a v10 in the future not for any perceived advantage in speed, but it looks damned easy to remount.

Having owned a couple of skis with limited rocker (red7 pro and a Think Legend) I found these skis fairly easy to paddle, but sideshore chop was always a handful if you didn't put the hours in. Where I paddle we get very little sideshore, so it was always a challenge when you turned up to race and it was sideshore.

If you are buying a V10 to get a speed advantage in flat water, you may as well by a V12, or Uno or a carbonology Flash or Switch. All of these boats will be better on the flat.

It sounds like so far the v10 has been an expensive exercise in going roughly the same speed, Rob.

I wonder if you would be any quicker in the 16kg performance model, rather than the light version.

A very good intermediate ski is a good assessment. When I got mine I tested the Hawx and the swordfish as well. The hawx was too tippy for me, the swordfish felt great. The v10 felt even better. Then it came down to the fittings. The v10 has the bailer vs the scuppers, the peddles don't need a tool to adjust, and the greater length should make it a bit quicker. Add to that the hype over the new boat and I was sold.

In hindsight I miss the self centering fenn steering set up, and the v10 is much harder to turn.

However it is a sexy boat and I think it is faster than the swordy. For me it has plenty to offer for some years which is good.

Also in hindsight I wish I had tried the evo11 as it keeps popping up as quick and very comfortable. Also I was pre launch of the new sport.

The one underlying thing everyone seems to be missing is that any new boat takes a while to adjust too. For those guys moving from beginner skis they can't expect a new boat to be a magic panacea!
It takes work and time in the boat to work out its nuances.
I often paddle in really messy side chop that reflects off walls and bridge piles and I now find the V10 to be great in those conditions, where as initially it gave me a wake up call.
I have never had a problem with its turning circle , because it has fantastic secondary stability and will edge thru turns with confidence.
Some people will adjust and adapt faster than others, and every day the water will throw up new challenges..that is part of the fun!
There seems to be a little too much emphasis on the boats , and not enough on the engines!
No manufacturer can design a boat that is all things to all people, everything has to be a compromise to some degree
We all seem to get a bit partisan about this brand or other!
I have got 4 skis in the fleet so I'm not partial to any particular brand, but at the moment my V10 gets paddled the most!

Just get out there and paddle, and paddle and paddle!!

When I bought the V10 I went in with my eyes wide open. I'm a beginner and have been paddling skis for about a year. I bought a Stellar SR because it was a stable ski, fit my fat ass and seemed a smart beginner boat. It was/ is a fine boat to learn on as it let me concentrate on my stroke and still paddle it in rough water. Safety is an issue here especially this time of year when the water and air are cold. It's ease of remounting is a big plus.

This fall I decided I wanted to race next summer so I needed a boat that was faster than my SR and I needed it soon as I would need the winter to get somewhat comfortable in it. I also wanted a solid intermediate to advanced boat to work on skills in and something that would be more enjoyable to paddle in flat water and grow into. I do have the advantage of years of whitewater paddling so I don't fall off very easily but I'm 48 years old and it's unlikely I will ever get the hang of an elite tippy ski so something like a Swordfish, V10, SEI seemed to fit the bill.

Deciding what ski to get was a long process and it turned out the V10 fitting my now smaller posterior (paddled off 22lbs/10 kilos since February ), was available and I liked the bailer. My understanding is that Epic said it was essentially the same speed as the old V10 but more stable and that sounded like a good thing for me.

I had no illusions about how long it would to get comfortable in the ski. I'm hoping to be happy with my stability in a year or two. So for me it was the right decision. I had the cash and im in it for the long haul. Now I have one ski I can grow into and one that's just fun in the rough and for friends to paddle.

As for what is "elite" and what is not... Just a couple of years ago the V10 was an "elite" boat and now we have a V10 that is as fast but more stable. Does this demote it? Or have others skis passed it and we now have "elite" creep? Does it even matter?

No doubt...Uno's, V14’s and Glides are all faster but I'm pretty sure my V10 will be about the fastest boat I could ever actually paddle.

Bill

I'm still not convinced the new v10 is as fast as the old v10.

Everyone knows stability is more important than speed, yet we all flirt with new boats.

Where I paddle, 90% of the time it is flat. Our downwinders are in smaller swell, parallel to the coast, though the wind is usually 20-30 knots.

I found I could paddle an elite boat in most conditions, bigger downwinds etc. Sidechop was my nemesis.

I have owned my Vault for 2 1/2 years now and if it broke tomorrow I would buy another one. It just suits the conditions I paddle in.

The hardest thing to do is find the boat that suits the conditions you paddle in.

For most people the new v10 will be ideal. I feel my Vault is a better allround boat for my conditions. Cheeseman loves his v10 and he paddles it really well. I can still pick the days when I struggle to keep up with him and I know the days when I will get in front.

Everyone keeps talking about paddling a boat that suits you, but you also need to find a boat that suits the conditions you paddle in.

I reckon rather than call the Vault or V10 intermediate boats they should be classed great allrounders. Reasonably good at everything.

"I reckon rather than call the Vault or V10 intermediate boats they should be classed great allrounders. Reasonably good at everything."

Which is exactly what they are for you, if you consider yourself intermediate Dicko.
I`m not taking the piss, I mean, you obviously feel great in your boat and it sounds like you have the skills to use it effectively too.
Trouble is, for a beginner who feels wobbly in a ski over 50cm wide, both the Vault and the New V10 will be far from allrounders to them, more like upsidedowners!
And similarly, the top guys who can really race confidently on a 42 or 43cm boat in most conditions, they might think of these skis as barges in all but the chunkiest of wind-blown, big wave paddles.
I reckon paddlers have to get their heads around the beginner/intermediate/elite categories as being areas on a continuum, rather than a three-tiered classification system. At 45cm the New V10 really should be classed as intermediate/elite as it sits right on the cusp, unlike the old V10 which is still firmly in the elite.
If manufacturers manage to work magic and make a wider boat perform as fast as a narrower boat, then kudos to them - but I think the labels should be based on dimensions (ie stability) rather than how fast it can go (which backs up what you are saying too).

Everyone keeps talking about paddling a boat that suits you, but you also need to find a boat that suits the conditions you paddle in.

Completely agree... Which is why when I do a review, I often stress that my findings are for me and the conditions that prevail in Cape Town - my downwinds are usually in wind generated waves, rather than the bigger, faster ocean swells that you find in Durban, for example.

So, for example, when I talk about being unable to control a boat because it broaches like crazy here, folks in Durban don't know what I'm talking about. But they don't often get the short, steep runs that we get.

So I totally agree. I also generally talk about me in the boat rather than stating that a boat does such and such - because the same boat may behave differently in other parts of the world (because the conditions are different) or with other paddlers (because they have a different paddling ability). All very tricky!

But it is good fun trying to make sense of it all. And I'm determined to get better at paddling the V10.

One thing I noticed today was interesting. I finally decided to apply 3M protective film at the catch area on my new Think Eze and my few months old New V10. I've paddled the V10 a dozen times so far, without protection. The Eze, only twice. What I noticed is that most marks from my paddle hitting the side of the boat near my feet were distributed differently on both boats. The marks on the V10 were concentrated about 3" ahead of my toes, the marks on the Eze were around where my toes are. This shows that with the V10 I reach further forward, so my stroke can be longer and stronger where it matters most. The Eze is 2" wider in the catch area, so that contributes to this, as I think does the seat shape and size, which I think on the V10 promotes a bit better rotation (for my bum structure and size, at least).

As for speed and stability on the new V10 - it's getting better for me all the time. Still have to do some time trials to see if it is faster for me over a longer distance than the older V10 Sport was (or the Eze will be), but it is faster on boat wakes and on short distances at high power. I would concur with the above posts - I feel it is indeed intended and better suited for larger open water swell. Shorter and/or more rockered skis will have an advantage in shorter and messier waves. Can't have it both ways...

Oh, and the construction (in supposedly similar grade layups) feels sturdier on the V10 - not much flex while handling out of the water nor creaking of the seat with my bum moving around to stretch my back on the water... Yes, it is perhaps a couple of lb heavier than the Eze but it is also 4.5 feet longer...

Ive had my v10 for about three months now. I have been tending to switch between the v10 and an xt depending on the conditions. However the xt is starting to drop away as I become more comfortable on the v10.

Yesterday I did the balmoral blast and it was bumpy. There was a solid swell breaking on the headlands. I expected to struggle and I expected to get beaten easily by my peers in these conditions.

However I felt ok. I lost quite a bit of power in the very bumpy stuff but overall I was able to hang on to the group.

Once I got into the flat stuff it was good bye to the group! The v10 seems to have another gear once you get comfortable. Over a 1 km distance I put about 400 m distance over the group!

When this happens the v10 is so exhilarating. The comments are correctly made, you have to get used to the boat and you have to improve your paddling if you are struggling.

Also I focused on edging when I was doing 180 degree turns in the race. It felt uncomfortable but it made a massive difference.