Changing rudder line

Just got an Epic V10 Sport. Very humbling experience. Lots to learn.

The rudder lines in the Epic are Spectra, I believe. I imagine that if they were not reliable Epic would not use them. Just curious if anybody has switched out Spectra lines for stainless steel. ? I look at the Spectra and just think that whenI least expect it they will fray and ultimately break.

Should I leave things as they are or better to replace with stainless ?

Thanks

I would leave it, I know of people who have had stainless lines fail on them too.

BTW prepare for the possibility of failed lines with this simple back up system.

www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.171183...0002425151844&type=3

Are you sure its Spectra - on all my Epics it looked like some plated carbon fibre product? Think Kayaks use Spectra in their lineup, but I didn't know Epic had moved to it too.
I agree with Greg, leave it alone. In my experience spectra is excellent. It will stretch very slightly in the first couple of paddles but after that it settles down nicely and is much less fiddly than using stainless.
The product Epics used to employ (I thought they still did) is also excellent and if it is that then I would also leave it alone. It is virtually unbreakable (in normal use at least) and easy to tie and untie when needed.

I've had swags failing on 2 occasions (once in severe weather conditions). The swags are covered (heat shrunk plastic) so you cannot inspect it for damage.

After the 2nd time I replaced it with spectra cord and had no further issues. Easy to install, tie and inspect for wear and tear. I would think eventually all manufacturers would move away from cables. Sure that if you put a poll out on which fails more often cable or cord/line, cable would win hands down.

The corded rudder lines don't stretch, the only thing that happens is that the knots tighten.
Once that has happened, they don't move again, and they are more responsive than cables which tend to have higher resistance.

Are the stainless lines breaking at the swag, or is the swag breaking?

Hey hey, Dr J...well done, and welcome...another newbie on an Epic V10 Sport...we can compare notes...lol.

I left mine as be, thought that the pedals were too far forward, but after sitting in it, and asking a mate, make no adjustments to the pedal angle...

What I did do, was to make sure that the "Rudder" was inline (Straight) when both pedals were equal...thought it a good idea to be going straight when you want to..

Since most things Nautical is what I do and fishing in particular..unless you want to "Tow" your car with the lines, they should be ok.

I undo the "Inspection" cap at the top of the rudder, make sure to wash it out with fresh water, bit of DW40 and that is about it...

On setting up the Ski for the first time I had the Rudder Stock too high, this meant that the Rudder touched the bottom of the Ski...reset it so that the Rudder was a few mm from the bottom of the Ski..and no problem since...

Good luck...

Take care

Raymond.

TheGoose wrote: Hey hey, Dr J...well done, and welcome...another newbie on an Epic V10 Sport...we can compare notes...lol.

I left mine as be, thought that the pedals were too far forward, but after sitting in it, and asking a mate, make no adjustments to the pedal angle...

What I did do, was to make sure that the "Rudder" was inline (Straight) when both pedals were equal...thought it a good idea to be going straight when you want to..

Since most things Nautical is what I do and fishing in particular..unless you want to "Tow" your car with the lines, they should be ok.

I undo the "Inspection" cap at the top of the rudder, make sure to wash it out with fresh water, bit of DW40 and that is about it...

On setting up the Ski for the first time I had the Rudder Stock too high, this meant that the Rudder touched the bottom of the Ski...reset it so that the Rudder was a few mm from the bottom of the Ski..and no problem since...

Good luck...

Take care

Raymond.

Thanks , Raymond. How long you been on surf ski?

Shoot me a mail This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I've become either lazier, or smarter. I don't know which to define it as.... I've been leaving my rudder housing screw cap off my V12, mostly so that I can quickly inspect my spectra rudder lines (yes, they are spectra on my boat). I'm not sure why the rudder horn really needs to be covered. Huki do not cover their rudder horns, and I am beginning to believe that a Huki is the next boat I'd purchase.
Anyway, I always inspect my spectra lines at the horn for fraying, just before venturing off my dock. Not having to unscrew the cap, inspect, then re-screw, saves me time and makes sure that I don't skip this part of the pre-flight inspection because I'm feeling rushed, or just plain lazy.
After my paddle, I hose the boat down, and flush the rudder horn assembly quickly, and allow everything to dry properly. Just good maintenance. Just my two pence.

Doug at SagaKayak.com wrote: I'm not sure why the rudder horn really needs to be covered.

Probably to save the manufacturers from a litagatious American that finds a way to rip thier nutsack on the unenclosed space

Making the screw on cover out of a clear material would maybe be an idea.

Salt in the fibres is probably going to wear the lines quicker than anything, don't find it a problem taking the cover off and hosing out and refitting the cover before the next paddle.

Kayaker Greg wrote: Salt in the fibres is probably going to wear the lines quicker than anything, don't find it a problem taking the cover off and hosing out and refitting the cover before the next paddle.

Noted. Is this Greg S. in Orlando area??

No this is Greg M from the Auckland area.

Kayaker Greg wrote: No this is Greg M from the Auckland area.

Wow. Long way from Orlando, F. Anyway new to all this but surf ski is great fun. Have a nice night? day?

JK

Kayaker G... Salt is going to get into the cables no matter if you have the cap on or off. The rudder tube is not water tight to the horn assembly cup, nor are the cable lines coming from the cockpit. Talk about salt water intrusion! There is plenty of that coming in from the rudder line conduits (bowden sheaths) in the cockpit area. So, in my experience, having the rudder horn assembly capped or uncapped is a moot point, other than the ease of which a completely exposed rudder assembly is so much easier to inspect, clean, and drain/dry. An enclosed area that is not only subject to salt water intrusion, but is also un-exposed to free air movement keeping that area wet and damp, is more likely to develop leakage problems, corrosion of the rudder shaft, mildew growth in the cables, etc. The snag potential of the assembly while on the water, at least in my experience, is so unlikely that it bears no consequence to leave the cap off. Permanently. A clear top would only collect interior condensation, rendering the transparency of the top useless. Again, having the horn exposed, as Huki skis and OC’s are designed, is more logical and efficient, at least in my little world.

In the past, I had stainless cables break twice after only a few months use.

When I got my V8, the rudder line was already frayed a bit so I replaced it myself immediately. A season and over 2000km on the V8 with the new line and I had no problems.

I use a Dyneema rope called Amsteel Blue, in an American Standard 7/64 size which is thicker than Epic's stock cord.

To install it on my Epics, I did have to run a 7/64 drill bit through the cable holes in the foot-pedals to enlarge them a mm or so.

To install them in the boats, I tie a piece of lightweight surf fishing Spectra braided line to a 5 meter length of heavy nylon fishing line.

The other end of the light weight spectra line is them tightly wrapped a dozen or so times and tied around the tip of the Amsteel Blue rudder line to compress it slightly.

I then snaked the heavy nylon fishing line through the rudder guide tubes in the boat until it came out from the other end and then proceeded to pull the lightweight Spectra line through, and then the new 7/64 rudder line.

I replace all of my rudder lines before every season. The material cost is very cheap, about $20 - $25 U.S. will do two or three boats.

It only takes about 1/2 hour and one ice cold frosty one for me to complete the job.

I really like the Amsteel Blue. I also used it to replaced the line on my V10 Sport the first week I had her, because to me personally, it feels a just a tad bit more responsive than the stock line.

To be honest, I worry more about the fiberglass shaft that the rudder pedals are attached to wearing through and breaking than I do my rudder lines. On both of my boats they appear to have worn down pretty significantly.

Has anyone had to replace these on their boats?

Doug, like I said, I don't find it a problem taking the cover off and hosing out and refitting the cover before the next paddle. It gets as much airing as yours, salt water is not sitting in an enclosed space corroding things, in fact it is usually dry when I take the cover off but I still rinse it out for just the reason you state, I know the lines and tube are not water tight. But most paddles the only water on the front of the lines is from a little splash unless your filling your bucket or capsizing. Takes about 2 seconds to remove, 3 to refit before my next paddle, the whole ski gets washed down. Never going to remove all the salt unless you target flushing the lines, I'm not going to do that every paddle. So salt water from one end is preferable to me rather than salt water entering from both ends, its a no brainer to me.
BTW I also coat the the rudder shaft every six months with Belray Waterproof grease about every 6 months. That might be where you are getting water inside your housing if your finding water inside with the cover on.

I'm not trying to be contrarian here, but has any body actually had a spectra rudder line break? I have heard (very rarely) of problems with metal cables. But never a spectra line. Dies anybody out there actually know of a spectra line breaking? Or is this simply a theoretical problem.

Zach, for my money it's purely theoretical!

In my experience Spectra will not break in circumstances of normal use in an ocean ski.

I have had a ski break up under me while being broached and towed by a huge set, the boat was absolutely totalled, but the Spectra line held - in the end it was all that connected my foot peddles to the boat!

That said, Spectra can fray if it's allowed to rub on something sharp - as can sometime occur where the line tubes exit the skin on a ski - as some manufacturers don't carefully smooth off the epoxy leaving potential rub points. I guess it is possible, with enough wear, for a line to break, but I have never heard of it actually occurring.

Zach: Epic's rudder horn is a half-way decent design with SS grommets inserted in the rudder-line holes. The grommets do reduce chafe, however I do notice a small amount of chafe at these two places, and only these two places in the whole rudder system. The V12 is 13 months old, so I keep a keen eye on this part of the rudder system, even though it appears as though the chafe is extremely minimal. I have seen spectra lines on other boats that have almost completely chafed through at the rudder horn. Chafe usually occures at rudder horn assemblies that do not allow for a large radius of flexure, i.e., small line holes have small radius of flexure that creates friction within the line.

Quick tip for anybody wanting to pull corded line through the line tubes.

Vacuum cleaner!

Put vacuum one end, feed line in the other.
Easiest way in the world.

They don't like water, so blow through the tube first to make sure it's basically empty before using the vacuum cleaner.

On the epic line theme, when I picked up my V12, the lines were not long enough to get the pedals in line with the footboard on the longest length, so had to extend it with a few inches of cord.

Things must be tight in china to skimp on rudder line length ....