First surf ski

I want to get a surf ski. Bit of background. Canoed for long time. Been kayaking for a few weeks. It's nice but surf ski looks like a blast. i live in Fl. so no issues with weather.

Me. Well I'm portly, chubby,fat, overweight whatever. I weigh in at 260 pounds
(118 kilos). I know what i need to do so please no comments. Hey some of us have a six pack, i have a keg!!

Question is can i "fit" on a surf ski. Waist is 44 in I am 5 ft 11".

Do i get something like an Epic V10 and learn the hard way or am i better off getting an Epic V8 and trading up when i am lighter and more proficient? I mention Epic as they are readily available in my area.

Yes, i'm way overweight but working on it. Need I lose 50 pounds before i get a ski?

Frankly, i don't want to wait. Sure i'll get wet, real wet but thats half the fun. Glad i don't live in Greenland.

Thanks

JK

drj9051,
With a limited paddling (3 weeks, assuming sea kayak?) you will have
lot more fun in V8 for sure until you get more skills. Later on you
can move on on more faster skis.
Epic V8 is a great ski to jump in to for a beginner. Very stable and fairly fast for its width and length.

JK,
The easiest way to tell in regards to fit is to try a few skis.
Skis with large buckets that come to mind are the older versions (pre-'09 I think) of the Epic V10 Sport and the Stellar SR series. The V8 would also be a consideration but I'm not familiar with its bucket. They all provide reasonable stability for learning. An Epic V10 or V10L bucket is pretty narrow, plus the learning curve would be steeper. I'm not sure how Fenn Mako XT and Custom Kayaks Horizon buckets fit but they would be other beginner/intermediate skis to consider trying.
What part of Fl do you live in? Bruce Gipson, www.venturesport.com, is in South Fl and may have something for you. You can contact Wes Echols, www.surfskiracing.com, in regards to Stellar Skis. Hope this helps.

Yep don't wait, try a few and get into it.
I personally think get the boat you feel comfortable in with only a small challenge stability wise and then upgrade as you get better. You will enjoy it more and spend more time burning calories if your not worried about what conditions you can handle in your new ski.

I would strongly advise you to start with a beginner boat like the v8 rather than an expert boat like the v10.

If you get the v10 you will spend so much time falling out and struggling to climb back in that it will be years before you have decent paddling skills. You will be afraid to head out in waves, and the waves are where the fun is at. You might just get discouraged and quit. You won't be able to paddle hard enough to build fitness and lose weight.

The v8 is an awesome boat. It is as stable as sea kayak. It surfs waves like crazy. And for you it will be much much faster than a v10 because you will be paddling not wobbling around slapping at the water in desperate attempt to avoid your 30th swim of the morning. If you get the v8 you will be enjoying paddling from day 1 and will improve quickly.

If at some point you feel the need to progress to a tipper boat, the v8 will hold it's value very well and sell quickly. Or you could keep the v8 even if you get a tippy boat. Use the tippy boat on flatter days and the v8 on big surf days. Use the v8 to introduce somebody else to the sport while you paddle next to them in a tippy boat.

That's my advice. Get the v8 if you want to have fun, fit, and learn to paddle.

Hi,

Yes, get a V8...I did, they are a lot of fun.

I was 42in (waist) and 125kg and in 6 months I am now 37in(waist) 110kg and its still falling off...the weight that is!
I have a V10 sport as well on the heavy days I use the V8 in the ocean, we have a few bities in the water in Perth...So its not good to spend too much time swimming while learning.

The bucket will just cope with a 44in...it will be snug but the weight soon falls off then you should be fine.

Sumo

Hi Drjay. Good on you for getting into skis. Don't let anyone talk you into not starting with a beginner ski. With your weight you will find the remount much much harder, unless you have great upper body strength, especially if your bulk is around your middle. I have taken a couple of roly poly friends out on my skis and SUPs and seen the struggle trying to get their bodies out of the water and back on the craft. Unless you can easily do pushups, you will struggle. So you don't want to fall out and you want to make it as easy as possible to get back in. Make sure you know how to do the remount and have practiced it in water you can stand up in.

You will have huge fun in the V8. And the more fun you have, the more you will paddle, the stronger you will get, the more weight will fall off.

I'll echo everyone's advice here and say don't go straight to the V10. I started paddling the the V8 at 110kgs. I had spent about 6 months paddling a plastic sit on top and no experience previous to that? I've now progressed to the V10sport and after a couple of outings I struggle with anything but the smallest of bumps. I paddled last weekend in conditions I knew would be difficult but had a crack anyway. I paddled a km or two in a protected area before rounding a point and was exposed to a reasonable swell with reflective chop coming from 3 directions and a decent amount of wind. Once I rounded the point I had to turn around and head for home after falling out a half dozen times within 50 meters. I am confident I would not have had a problem in the V8.

If you've been paddling for a while you may want to try out a Fenn XT if you can get your hands on one.

Good luck and happy paddling

As always, it depends.
If you have access to sheltered water, get whatever you can sit in.
If not, then get a stable one.

It's always cheaper to upgrade the water as you develop than upgrade your boat.

It will dramatically depend on you innate balance and flexability.

I suggest a second hand boat if possible, your first boat will probably end up trashed if you regularly negotiate a surf break.

Don't forget that there are many other equivalent boats to the V8, and that the single most important thing is that the bucket fits your backside.

Having a bucket that puts your legs to sleep is just as bad as one that turfs you out.

Over the past few seasons, I have just personally gone through the process you are considering going through...

I started with a 16' Kaskazi ski/kayak hybrid and then moved up to the Epic V8. The V8 took a full season to get good at... I had to get my core in proper shape. My paddle stroke and bracing skills also needed to get where they should be before I started to feel very confident in the V8 in most conditions I paddle in...

I have just started progressing up from a V8 to a V10 Sport. I paddled the V8 for an entire season and covered about 1500 miles in that time-frame.

While in the surfski world, an 18' boat may be considered a beginner boat, in the sea kayak world, boats with the V8's dimensions are generally considered intermediate to advanced boats.

Depending on the conditions you paddle in, you can still have a learning curve that can challenge you for a full season; or even slightly more...

Surfski paddlers telling a new individual to the sport that a boat is "stable" is like a tight rope walker saying it would be easy to do a back-flip on a balance beam because it is sooooooo wide! (laughing)

Once you get conditioned for balance in a boat with a certain level of stability, all boats shorter and wider feel slow, rock solid and barge like.

If you want to know how stable a boat is, you have to sit in it yourself because stability is really a relative term.

Also, if you are very comfortable in, and around the water, stability won't carry half the weight as it would if you were not a person who has spent much time on the water and getting comfortable with it in the past.

If the boat feels a little shaky that is okay. But if don't feel you could paddle the boat in flat-water conditions for a few miles without being semi-at-ease, you may need a boat 1 tier down.

You said you used to paddle a canoe... Was it a traditional canoe or a racing outrigger canoe? If it was an outrigger you may progress faster than if it was a standard canoe.

I spent last summer spending some time as a volunteer with a kayaking program locally. I allowed a dozen or so -average weekend casual sea kayakers- to get in and try my V8. Every one of them loved the boat, but in anything but flat-water, all but one felt that the boat would have learning curve to get used to stability wise...

So if you find yourself feeling that way, you are not alone...

In flat-water, you may feel confident in a very short time. In any sort of cross chop or in boat wakes and confused current, you will probably feel stomach butterflies and rapidly vibrating, nervous-calf-shivers, for at least a little while...

I fell out of the V8 one time when I first got her. I slowed to a stop in 1 1/2 foot mixed chop and was unexpectedly broadsided by a boat wake that was a foot higher.

While starting out, I mostly stayed in predictable flat-water conditions for a long time before I started to push the envelope a little and venture out into areas of heavier currents and chop.

It now seems like it was literally one-day, where all of sudden, I could do more in the V8 than I had ever done before. In reality however, there were a lot of good days where I felt relaxed and in control and there were a lot of bad days where I felt my balance was off and I had the shakes...

Another boat in the same class as the V8 that you can also try is the new Stellar S18S which has a wider foot-well than the Epic and more room in the bucket front to back with a lower hump under the legs. The Stellar SR I paddled was about 15% tipper to me than my V8 in flat-water. I never got to try it in chop.

If you do not feel comfortable in these boats, one more boat that you may wish to throw in the mix is the new ski/kayak hybrid, the Epic V6 tourer.

I have just started with the V10 Sport in the past few weeks and have to say that without my time and lessons learned in the V8, I would not be half as comfortable in the Sport as I am, though I have a heck of a long way to go...

Finally, you may want to contact Sean Smith of fatpaddler.com for some insight, tips and suggestions. If I am not mistaken I think I read he was about your weight when he first started out.

I started from kayak like you 7 years ago & felt the urge from my ego to upgrade as I was making progress but went backwards in my paddling ability through peer pressure! My recommendation is Honcho Guevara, little known ski from South Africa equivalent but more stable yet faster than Fenn xt. Forget Epic V8, it's a kayak hull with a ski cockpit it you want to learn go to a school and get yourself a real ski that u will not have to upgrade quickly as u gain in stability and confidence. As many have said, try all as your body leg lengthy & ability is different to Joe Bloggs. Manufacturers will sell u the virtue if their skis. Have fun. Jean

I agree with a good bit of what Jean says, but...
Having owned and paddled a Guevara a good bit, I can safely say that it will not fit your size. It's a fun ski and often overlooked, especially in regards to paddling in the surf and chop, but the bucket would be too small for you.
I think you just have to try a number of skis and go with what fits and feels best. Don't paddle a V8 one time and say 'this is it' without trying other skis. That is an easy mistake to make, especially on the first go around.
I also note there are a lot of advocates of getting basically the most stable ski you can get to start out on... I understand the logic but am not completely certain, like Jean and RAB, that I agree with that philosophy 100%.
If you are dedicated and willing to put in the time and effort, starting out in a slightly more advanced 'beginners' ski has it's advantages. 3 years ago, there was no V8 or Nelo Viper 55 or Custom Kayaks Horizons or Think Eze. The typical 'beginners' skis were the XT, the Think Evo, Huki S1-R, or the V10 Sport. Epic bucked the trend by sticking a surfski deck on a slightly modified sea kayak hull and thus the 50cm + skis were born. They are great skis to learn on and have fun, but a dedicated ski paddler should be able to pick up paddling a V10 Sport/XT/SR in small conditions in a relatively short period of time without having to take the 50cm + step. Sure you may have some initial stability issues but you will quickly overcome them if you stick with it. To this end, I would try and compare the V8 you're trying to a V10 Sport, an XT, the Think Evo, and a Stellar SR. You may find that those skis are more accessible than you thought.
Ultimately, I think that deciding if you are up for something like the SR, XT, Evo, or Sport versus the V8 takes a lot of self-awareness and depends on how dedicated you are to becoming a 'stuck in' surfski paddler.
Either way, it can be done... I started paddling in 2009. Not paddling skis, paddling. I'd never paddled anything other than a Grumman canoe in my life. I learned to paddle with a S. African wing paddle, a Custom Kayaks Synergy Surfski, Dawid Mocke's DVD, and Greg Barton's forward stroke DVD. The next year I was in a V12 Ultra in the ocean and harbors in my area. If I had started out on a 50cm + ski, I do not think I would have progressed as rapidly.
Oh, and do what RAB said on your other thread, go for an adjustable wing paddle 205-215cm. There are several on the market. Again, in your area I recommend Bruce Gipson for a nice wing paddle at a nice price. Another nice price paddle for what you get is the Kajner 2, which is similar to a Jantex Gamma. N.American dealer is out of Canada, very helpful and easy to deal with, and the price is right. That is a paddle you would not be looking to upgrade from in 6 months.
No matter what you decide on, have fun, and welcome to the sport!

Please, forgive a difference of opinion and my annoying long-windedness.I mean absolutely no disrespect and truth be told, I have nothing but the highest respect for anyone that has successfully transitioned their way into the world of the ski.

I can't say I agree with Jean in this particular instance, because of a few important reasons...

First and foremost, the individual who started the thread, DrJay, has stated that they are 260 pounds (117kg) and for the most part, he has only paddled a kayak "for a few weeks". DrJay is not a paddler with any true kayak paddling experience.

Because of both of these facts, there is a very good possibility that he has not even learned proper rotational paddling, as opposed to arm paddling, or any type of bracing stroke. Both of which are important to being successful in a more traditional ski.

Also, DrJay had not said so, but there is also a high percentage chance that the "kayak" he has paddled for a few weeks, is a -rotomold sit-on-top boat- with a width of 28 inches (711mm), or perhaps even wider.

Another point to seriously consider is that because of his limited kayaking experience of only a few weeks, he may have not have yet even attempted a single self-rescue.

That may not seem like that much of an issue to an athletic, fit person who is 170 to 190 pounds,(85kg or less) but to an individual that is not -aerobically athletic- at this time, has a 43in(109cm) waist and weighs in on the heavier side or the scale, it's probably the single most important issue of all.

The advice in question is the type of advice that used to be the popular opinion you found all over the net and for some people, may be the perfect advice.

But for me personally it wasn't. It is the exact type of advice I followed when I purchased a Mako XT a while back, before I even knew how to use a paddle properly. My experience and fitness level at the time was not what it should have been for me to be confident and successful on a ski. Like many other people that followed that old opinion, I ended up selling that first ski for half of what I paid for it.

An aerobically athletic and fit person, with genuine paddling experience has a great advantage to succeed in the sport very quickly. However, I personally feel that individuals that have...

1. No real kayak experience and have to learn how to use a paddle...

2. That may have a longer road of working themselves into proper paddling fitness...

3. That basically have no self rescue experience in anything similar to a ski...

Should not be encouraged to get into a level of boat that requires at least a basic level of experience is all three of these things. I wish someone had said this kind of stuff to me when I started out. It would have saved me a great deal of wasted time and money.

There are sea kayak paddlers with 10 years of experience in intermediate-class kayaks that have found the transition to skis to be a difficult one. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it and there would be 100 skis to every 1 kayak on the water, instead of the other way around.

Finally, in the past I purchased three boats from Bruce Gipson at Venturesport, located in Boca Raton, Florida and had them shipped up to New York. I genuinely support other's opinions of him stated here.

Bruce is a great guy. If anyone is located in his area, I think that he should be the first place to go for anything ski related.

I was also told recently that Bruce is now a Stellar dealer. So, if DrJay or anyone else wants to get into a Stellar S18S, an SR, or anything Stellar, Bruce may also be the man to see for a few other choices of boat besides an Epic.

The footwell area of the Stellar SR I paddled, as well as the cockpits dimensions front to back, were much larger than the V8 and V10 Sport.

Again, genuinely sorry for the difference of opinion. I just really feel a need to voice it as I have because of my own positive and negative experiences.

No need to apologize Falllguy, different opinions and experiences is what it's all about. You make some great points and obviously have a little different insight into transitioning to surfski in regards to background, fitness level, body type/size/weight, etc... Great stuff, I'm sure the OP appreciates all the input.

FallGuy:

You have some valid points. I do actually have some pretty decent rotation at this point. I am paddling a CD Isle 18 beam is 24 in.

Self rescue: Yeah it's tough at my size. Thankfully I'm pretty strong but as mentioned my aerobic capacity stinks. I am on a concept 2 rower as well as paddling 3-4times a week. Out in Gulf last night after work.

RE: Venture Sports. Their website does not indicate Stellar. Besides Boca about 3.5 hrs from me. I'm north of Orlando. Where in N.Y. you located?

I spoke with Wesley Echols in R.I he thinks I may fit a Sr or if not an S18. Problem is finding a ski to sit in. They are not at all common around here.

Sweetwater Kayak in Tampa area has Epic.

Thanks to all of you for your valued opinions. I'm not sure which way to go at this point.

BTW: re: bracing skills, working on it. I am dedicated and have every intention of evolving into a somewhat competent surf skier

See you all at Molokai next year. Just kidding. Not there yet!!

I forgot to add a few other pointers which I found useful :
1. Check out the site "rambo's locker", great source of information to watch paddling greats like Oscar Chalupsky, Dean Gardiner, Tim Jacobs, to name a few in full action, sometimes in slowmo in races. I learnt heaps from that. Rambo is an artist!
2. Wear a lifevest, legroom & keep a marine whistle or day flare with you for emergency
3. Practice leg drive, hip & shoulder rotation, posture on seat, paddle holding position
4. Have heaps of Fun!

Jean

DrJay,

Located in Staten Island, New York just over the bridge from Brooklyn where I was born and raised and caused a lifetime of knuckleheaded, rebellious, drunkard, social anarchy as a youth.

I have to say that I am very PROUD of the fact that I am officially currently ranked 5th of the top five surfski paddlers, located here in Staten Island, NY!<two thumbs up>

Unfortunately, I'm also the ONLY surfski paddler in Staten Island,NY which basically means that I am so bad at it, there are four people that don't even paddle a surfski who are better at it than I am. <lowering my head from embarrassment and shame> (laughing)

Good luck with finding that first boat DrJay...

I mean seriously, if I can semi-paddle and remount a surfski, ANYONE can! After all, I'm such a knucklehead that when I created my screen name I typo'd and used three damn "L"s... (laughing)

mckengmsurfski : Thank you... Just wanted to make sure my "opinion" didn't come across as being confrontational. I am kind of new here..


DrJay: Just a final note...

Bruce of Venturesport has not updated his website in at least 5 years. (laughing) Wesley told me he was now a Stellar dealer when I was thinking about test paddling a Stellar and called him to ask some questions. If I am not mistaken, Bruce basically sells boats as a side business and doesn't have a retail establishment that I know of...

But he has been selling skis and South African kayak/ski hybrids on the East Coast here in the U.S. longer than anyone...

FalllGuy wrote: DrJay,

Located in Staten Island, New York just over the bridge from Brooklyn where I was born and raised and caused a lifetime of knuckleheaded, rebellious, drunkard, social anarchy as a youth.

FallGuy:

I grew up in Nassau county. Gotta love the Belt Parkway. Great surf at Jones Beach. I do remember the nice rolling waves off somewhere between Sandy hook and SI. Used to go fluke fishing in that area. Must be great for a ski!!!!
So yeah I'm committed. Right now I'm sort of being steered toward the Stellar SR. If too tight a fit the S18 although to me this is sort of a hybrid with the hatches and all.

I like the look of the Epics but have been told they are too small in the foot area. I wear a size 12. Also the Stellar has a wider seat area.

BTW: Also advised to not count out the Epic V10 Sport.

It is tough to find any ski around here to even sit in much less paddle.

Just curious what is the toll these days on the Veranzanno, must be $9-10 by now. I left NY in 1990 at that time I remember parking in a garage in midtown for 30 minutes and it was something like $15 plus 18% tax!!

Keep in touch. BTW: what are you paddling??

Jay email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I am curious where you heard the bit about epics being too small for size 12 feet? Was it someone trying to sell you something else? I'm 6 foot and my size 11s fit fine. Oscar chalupsky, who designs the boats is 6'4". Team epic paddler matt bouman is 6'8" and im guessing he has big feet. As long as you dont plan on paddling in winter boots, i bet size 12 feet will fit any surfski out there.

drjay,

You don't have to loose 50 kg to start this sport, you can loose the 50kg while doing it and that is where the fun is. The V8 can be an excellent choice since it is based in a sea kayak and is more stable that racing skis, and it can be fairly easy to re-sale it once you are ready to move up due to the same reason.
Good luck