Broaching

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11 years 7 months ago #15865 by shu
Broaching was created by shu
So... how much of broaching is caused by paddler error (technique) vs. the boat? I'm sure I'll not like the answer...

I've been paddling a few different boats and find that I broach too often primarily when riding boat wakes while on the sidewake; trying to hold a hard angle at speed.

What am I doing wrong?
This has happened historically in my Fenn XT and now in a EOS 660. Yes, totally different boats (and I'm awaiting a new one that "should" have less broaching aspects) but I'm trying to determine how to keep from broaching and refine my technique. Any help?

Thanks

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11 years 7 months ago #15867 by kevin brunette
Replied by kevin brunette on topic Re: Broaching
A swell coming from behind will often cause a broach if you are not properly positioned on the swell face or are not moving fast enough. Because of the length of a ski, the crest will lift the stern of the ski and overturn it into the trough. This is frustrating because your ski veers off to the left or right, no matter how hard you try to keep it straight by bracing, steering or paddling.
Broaching can be the result of losing your steerage because your rudder is possibly fully or partially out of the water, or has lost its effectiveness in turbulence. You could also be turning too much and your rudder has stalled because of the extreme angle, and it just acts as a brake.
Try to limit your broaching by accelerating a bit further down the swell and keep moving so that there is water flowing past your rudder. An efficient rudder such as an elliptical rudder might also help you to maintain your direction.
Hope this helps.

FENN Bluefin, XT, Swordfish S
Author and publisher at South Easter Communications of books in the SURFSKI series, aimed at recreational to advanced paddlers. Look at the Facebook page Surfski know-how and visit www.lulu.com/spotlight/southeastercommunications

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11 years 7 months ago #15868 by Marieski
Replied by Marieski on topic Re: Broaching
Wot Kevin said.

I was told (when requesting an elliptical rudder to help with broaching) that if I paddled harder I wouldn't need one. This is probably true and certainly when Im paddling like billy-o I broach less, but...... when I have an elliptical rudder I broach a heck of a lot less! Got one for my V10sport. Then couldn't give them up and got one for the Swordy and the Horizon too. Can't get one for the SES but I can't paddle that in anything big enough to bother ( maybe because it doesn't have an elliptical rudder.......)

Supposedly because of the increased surface area they will slow you down fractionally compared to the standard rudder, on flat water, but I'm not interested in that. For me, the better tracking aslant downwind is well and truly worth it.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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11 years 7 months ago #15869 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re: Broaching
Riding boat wakes isn't easy, cos every boat throws out a differnt wake. Throw in different speeds and it's even harder. Boat wakes tend to be shorter and steeper, so your rudder just pops out the back of the wave. Skis aren't surfboards so they won't track across a face like a board. So a lot is about finding the right spot on the wave
for your ski and then just keeping your speed up.

We had 18 months of construction on a jetty that saw 2 tugs plod up to the construction site, 4 km's away, every morning. Good fun.

What's the world record for the most ski's behind a boat?

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11 years 7 months ago #15873 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Re: Broaching
It is totally true that elite level paddlers broach a lot less than the rest of us because they have better technique, more strength and are travelling faster on the wave!

But as a mere mortal, albeit with a ton of downwind experience, for me different boats behave very differently on runs and on some (but not all) the rudder can make a huge difference.

Example: I find that the Swordfish is quite prone to broaching with the standard Fenn sharkfin rudder; likewise the V10 Sport with the old straight edged rudder. Put an elliptical rudder on either ski, and, for me, they are much easier to control.

It's clear though that the rudder is only part of the equation. I've paddled skis with big elliptical rudders where I lose control almost immediately no matter what the shape of the wave is.

As for riding wakes - I've done quite a bit of this here in Hout Bay where we have an 88 ton tourist catamaran that goes 3km out to a island to view seals and then comes back again.

It's great for testing skis, because the wake is short and steep - and instantly exposes a ski's propensity to broach.

The V10 Sport and Swordfish with elliptical rudders are a doddle; the Fenn Elite (perhaps being a longer boat) needs a little more concentration but also behaves well. But the key is that what you're doing there is the most technically difficult form of wave riding.

So I guess the answer to your question is that if you're like me ie you're not an elite paddler who can force the issue, then the boat choice and rudder choice can make a huge difference. I have to say though that I found the 660 to be one of the more difficult skis to handle!

Cheers
rob

Rob
Currently Epic V10 Elite, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Swordfish S, Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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  • patrickswitz
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11 years 7 months ago #15908 by patrickswitz
Replied by patrickswitz on topic Re: Broaching
The more skill you gain, the less you rely on the rudder's force to make the boat go where you want. On open ocean runners the trick is to track high across the wave keeping your nose from pressing into the trough. If you're in the correct spot on the wave it should feel like you're on the verge of falling off the back. This positioning keeps the ski fairly level, with the nose free and it doesn't take much input from the rudder to go where you want.

If you do find yourself stuck in a broach scenario where the ski is tracking hard to the side, you can often save it by dragging a paddle or otherwise stalling the ski so it drifts up the face. Right before you fall out the back, the nose will pop free and you can spin it straight, put in a few hard strokes and not lose the wave.

Really steep breaking waves are a special case: On open water I try to avoid them if at all possible, and on occasion when I've gone on a wave I shouldn't have, I've been able to hang back long enough to stay out of the lip, and just ride the foam ball down to safety.

Other tips: Never use a severe rudder angle at high speed. If gentle pressure on the pedal doesn't work, fix your positioning instead of mashing on the rudder.

If you feel the rudder stall, bring it back to centerline for a spit sec to get laminar flow back, then try a less severe angle while you work on fixing the boat positioning.

Here's a downwind drill to try improving your positioning on the wave: Try to stay so high on the wave that you actually fall out the back and miss half of them. At first it's actually really hard to do, because our instinct is to charge down the face. After a while of doing this I found I only had to put in about half the strokes I thought I did to catch waves and stay in the sweet spot.

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11 years 7 months ago #15926 by LaPerouser
Replied by LaPerouser on topic Re: Broaching
I've had the same broaching experience as mentioned by Rob and others with my newish Swordfish.

On my old V10S and Evo with elliptical rudders, I could easily ride a foamy into the beach without risk of broaching. I've found it much more difficult with the sharkfin rudder on the Swordfish. I don't really paddle much in big offshore conditions.

My question is: which elliptical rudder? Does Fennn make a suitable elliptical rudder (yet)?

Previous threads have mentioned the Carbonology and Think rudders (subject to shaft length) as suitable. Does anyone have more up to date advice, or a view as to which is better?

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  • gixer
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11 years 7 months ago #15927 by gixer
Replied by gixer on topic Re: Broaching
I fitted an elliptical rudder to my SF to help prevent stalling in big water but since I was doing limited paddling in rough water, I switched back to the Dolphin rudder.
A few months later and I am now training a bit more and with more fitness/speed, I rarely stall and find the Dolphin rudder fine.

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11 years 7 months ago #15928 by Marieski
Replied by Marieski on topic Re: Broaching
La Perouser, Fenn didn't make one as of 8 months ago. Drop an email to Hein at Carbonology and he will make you one at very reasonable cost at quick time (and it's really cute getting that rudder shaped package in the mail, plastered all over with South African stamps).

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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11 years 7 months ago #15941 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Re: Broaching
I run the standard surf rudder with the SES and while not getting smashed would still like some more control. What compatible options are there to increase SES rudder size?

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11 years 7 months ago #15942 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Broaching
Stellar have a 9" surf rudder which I use on my SEL for added stability in tricky conditions. There is also the Stellar weed deflector, which I run on my SES which adds a little more direction control and stability.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Watto

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