What would you like to see design-wise ?

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12 years 9 months ago #7603 by Steve Hansen
To get this started here's my list of things I'd like to see in future surfski designs:
1)lower ridge(hump) between seat and footwell.Make it so low that it's a non-issue for short and tall paddlers alike.
2)Better seat design to avoid hip pinch among other things:flatter bottom of seat,more vertical sides.Also, the deepest part of the seat should be at the back so one doesn't tend to slide forward or slump.
3)Venturi drain in the seat area:design a small catch basin in front of the crotch area of the seat to deal with more water coming into the seat area.
4)Unobstrusive handle or tie-off point on bow of every ski:helpful when car-topping in high winds or dragging behind rescue boat.
5)Narrower catch area on all skis:some people need to paddle wider skis for stability but they shouldn't be penalized with a wide catch zone.Actually, I think we are starting to see this more in ski design.

Take it away...

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12 years 9 months ago #7604 by [email protected]

2)Better seat design to avoid hip pinch among other things:flatter bottom of seat,more vertical sides.Also, the deepest part of the seat should be at the back so one doesn't tend to slide forward or slump.


This is really difficult because bums differ - example: most folks think the Epic bucket is comfortable; I can't sit in it. More than a few people get dead leg from the Fenn bucket; I love it. My point is that it's almost impossible to define what a better seat is!

What I'd like to see:
leash anchor point in all skis.
bow handle
rudder "get me home" emergency bungee steering ala Allwave CX

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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12 years 9 months ago - 12 years 9 months ago #7607 by Boof Head
I'm currently building my own timber ski. I have dropped in a salvaged red7 cockpit and plan to allow for the following, depending on weight of finished boat;
hydration unit in hump;
leg leash point;
bow hole to allow for grab loop and/or deck line if needed;
Maybe a get out of trouble rudder system like the allwave;

I don't see this ski as a replacement for my Stellar and since I like to island hop in our Bay from time to time, maybe a rear hatch so that I can use it for day tripping.

I initially thought that I would have a low volume bow and allow for the attachment of a bolt on bow piece or even a spec ski like "wing" for surfing or larger conditions. In the end I opted for a high bow like most skis have.

Keep the ideas coming.

p.s also adding cutouts to reduce catch as much as possible. Unfortunately, Will still be wider than my Stellar and V10
Last edit: 12 years 9 months ago by Boof Head.

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12 years 9 months ago - 12 years 9 months ago #7609 by Rightarmbad
Small weed deflector, al' la' Think.

Leash attachment

Small hatch to stash my keys in when I go out without a jacket with pockets.

A rudder system that simply cannot break at sea, as long as I do a regular inspection. A quick change rudder system would be nice.

Handles on each end would be nice. I'd be happy with just a rope handle.

A choice of bucket shape, one for Rob, one for me. I think it all depends on whether or not you have an arse as to which type of bucket you like.

Narrow catch is good.

Pedals that adjust forward and back without upsetting the steering angle. Adjustable pedal layback angle that doesn't upset other settings.
Self centering steering is a must for me, it's just better.
The ability to raise or lower the footboard so you can place the pedal pivots at whatever height you need.
Adjustable foot board angle would be nice.
All these settings need to be fine adjustable.
A footboard that doesn't rest on the bottom and slowly wear through it.
A footboard that tilts to let your feet get in easily even if you run tight straps, again Think already has this.
An option of single or double straps.

The Epic hump height is good, the new Fenn SL is still too high for me, even as a big guy it hits my calves.

The bucket must empty and give me gurgling sounds, I love it.
I hate the perpetual inch of water in my epic V10.

I want colours, a white ski is simply invisible to other craft.

I'm sure that I will think of more as soon as I hit the 'submit' button

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 12 years 9 months ago by Rightarmbad. Reason: spelling

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12 years 9 months ago #7621 by mrak
Some good ideas in the previous posts. My Uno Max has a lot of these already: driest boat ever, -it gurgles like a baby. Has a bow and stern handle which I've used for tying a bow line to the car bumper and also chaining up to a pole for security when I leave it unattended at beach etc. Also has a neat little hatch with dry bag.

How about a built-in computer console screen for a GPS so you can easily see your speed and distance etc. (with a toe operated control on a pedal?)

We often start training in the dark of morning, so I'd like some pop up white navigation lights (compulsory to have lights in NSW)that we can turn off (without stopping)once dawn has broken.

And I also want all of these things to be virtually weightless please!! And not push the price up by much!

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12 years 9 months ago #7622 by Rookie
I think for me somewhere to store your keys and cellphone would be fantastic, my dorado has one in front of the peddles whish is the only realy good thing about the ski, Low sides (XT/ horizon) so that the beginners can use my synergy confortably, rudder moved upwards to stay in control on the short steep runs,
Would love different colours - very bored of white :cheer:

Focus, Apex 2, Zeplin

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12 years 9 months ago #7649 by Beanboy
Lots of folks have mentioned good stuff already.

Here's my personal list:

--Like a day hatch/bag area for lunch/dry change of clothes
--Central running bow and stern grab lines running to grab handles (bow line being used for leash attachment)
--some foam in bow/stern for positive flotation ability if hull becomes compromised
--standard/integrated overstern rudder option

Most of the above wouldn't be for an all-out racing ski, since all of the above probably adds 5 pounds or so to a boat.

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12 years 9 months ago #7651 by Rightarmbad
I don't think foam would achieve anything.

For a boat to be so compromised as to not have at least one end float, all I can say is,'what the fuck were you doing in conditions that could do this?'.

I usually disconnect my leg leash as I come in through surf, I think most do and it would be an interesting experiment to try and see if a deck line leash attachment would make it safe to keep it on.

Generally, if I come off in surf, I just hook my toes under the foot straps and pull up hard, if I can keep them there then great, I don't have to swim after my boat, if I can't, I figure I'm better not attached to it.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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12 years 9 months ago #7664 by mrak
Rightarmband is right to doubt the efficacy of a leash if you come off in the surf zone. However, in big downwind, or worse, big side wind, a leg leash can prevent a light weight ski being blown away if you come off. People I know, swear they have seen skis tumble along in strong winds when their paddlers came off. I keep a leash in the car and occasionally wear it if the wind is really howling. My Think Uno max and Epic V10 have leash attachment points and sometimes, just sometimes, I'm grateful for this little addition.

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12 years 9 months ago #7666 by [email protected]
Just a note on the foam/floatation. In the past, all skis had a polystyrene stringer - in fact they had to, under surf lifesaving regulations. I'd like to see this mandated for all skis.

And as for leashes - long story but I lost a ski that rolled away from me rapidly, even though it had my paddle attached to it. My leg leash failed when a big wave ripped the ski away from me. (Happily - otherwise it might have injured my leg.)

Story here: How to Sabotage a Sale

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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12 years 9 months ago #7667 by AR_convert

mrak wrote: People I know, swear they have seen skis tumble along in strong winds when their paddlers came off.


Scared the crap outta myself last summer when racing an 18km downwind race, I had gone about 2km offshore, probably about 300-400 metres further out than other competitors due to tactics in the conditions. Came off after about 14km when I was starting to tire and in a couple of seconds my ski rolled about 3 metres from me, I have never sprinted so quickly in my life to grab it and swore that from that moment on I would always wear a leg leash in downwind conditions. Even if I don't have a leg leash with me I use a tie down strap.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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12 years 9 months ago #7669 by Ryan

Rookie wrote: Would love different colours - very bored of white :cheer:


They are all white so as to prevent your wife noticing the upgrade.

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12 years 9 months ago #7671 by Rookie
I laughed when i read the last comment - we used to tell our wives that the double belonged to the other partner - until our wives met :pinch:
Some very good ideas coming through - i had forgotten about the foam in the old skis darn good idea having been caught out by a huge wave about 1km off shore it would be nice to be able to hold on to a floating bit until help arrived. After watching the world cup off Durban 2 years ago I cannot think why people still debate the merits of a leash.
After safety must be a storage compartment.
Like the idea of a GPS mount - perhaps on the lid of the hatch :dry:

Focus, Apex 2, Zeplin

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12 years 9 months ago #7673 by Beanboy
I like the idea of a leash aligning the boat into the wind/waves versus going sideways, hence the idea of running along a central line.

I guess I'm looking for features more along the lines of a GT car versus all-out sports car.

Also think it would be good for the sport. I've seen signs (Epic V8 for example) of the companies looking into making the surfski experience easier to experience for folks.

I don't think I'll ever be fast enough that a top-of-the-line narrow ski versus the next model down (in my case, a V10 Sport) will make me place in a race versus not.

And even if I do reach that level someday, having a boat that I can use for rough conditions/non-race paddling would probably be in the fleet anyway.

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12 years 9 months ago #7695 by mrak
What a great story about your errant ski, Robin. Sounds like you need a homing beacon on yours as well!

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12 years 9 months ago #7700 by Michael Smedley
Good designated flat spot in the front to stick the Garmin GPS mount to.

Retractable leash anchor point or some kind of velcro system that stores the leash cord out of the way, however if you fall in it just pulls out.

Small dry compartment for phone/vhf/keys

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12 years 9 months ago #7702 by darebet
Replied by darebet on topic Re: What would you like to see design-wise ?
Possibly adjustable/closing bullets. Like the V12 can open or close it's Venturi drain I think the bullets on a slider that can adjust the drain setting. Having an easy way of adjusting the drain without stopping such as a lever that you can manipulate with your heel.

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12 years 9 months ago #7705 by Rightarmbad
The couple of times I have paddled a V12, I just found the bailer unnecessarily fiddly.

If I owned one, I would certainly have to do some mods to it.

I hope the manufacturer looks into creating a proper surf ski optimised version sometime in the future.

Things like the tennis ball modification shouldn't really be required.

Somehow I don't think that bailer/drain/bullet evolution has progressed very far.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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12 years 9 months ago - 12 years 9 months ago #7708 by superted
Safety should come first and be standardised across the industry. Positive flotation, overlapping seams and return to shore system (be it bungey or flip over hatch cover that locks the rudder straight etc). Adds bugger all to the overall weight of the ski, especially for the majority of recreational paddlers that venture offshore.

Amazes me still that one leading manufacturer in the effort to claim the lightest skis on the market still has basically zero internal flotation , butt joint seems and invisible stringers.

Rob when you do yr ski reviews internal build quality should be mentioned. Shine a touch down the drain plug, get manufacturers specs or pictures from damaged skis that show internals.
Last edit: 12 years 9 months ago by superted.
The following user(s) said Thank You: AR_convert

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12 years 9 months ago #7713 by Stew
It's funny, when we introduced handles to the bow and stern of our skis 2 and a half years ago, the initial reaction was one of horror from many people. Now it seems like it is a feature many people want. It's good to see that safety is not being neglected in the desire for performance by lots of paddlers.

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