footplate digging into foot well

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39853 by tve
(... continuation from www.surfski.info/forum/18-training/20380...?limitstart=20#39848)

The footplate in my surfkis always ends up digging into the foot well, i.e., the surfski. I had the problem in a nelo 550 which had the plastic footplate with little metal feet at the bottom and the right one dug a neat hole into the bottom. I then switched to the carbon footplate, which doesn't touch the bottom of the surfski (and which now come std here). Then the same on my V10. I kept gluing the little rubber protectors back on, but that wasn't enough... I filled one hole with some epoxy but now there's a crack too. Photo shows the bottom of the foowell, ignore the black tape residue; the patched hole is just above the black reside, crack is above&left. Front of surfski is towards top-left.



The same started happening on my V12. I quickly taped down a 2mm carbon plate. The rubber protectors keep coming off. Now the foot plate is digging into the carbon plate:



Obviously the real solution is for me to stop pushing my rear so hard into the seat!!! But that's not gonna happen quickly so I need to figure out an "interim" (hopefully...) solution.

I find the footplate very steep (which obviously increases the pressure on the foot well) so I'm wondering what I could put between the footplate and the bottom to increase the angle. It needs to be at least 5mm thick, perhaps even 1cm. I'll probably stick some long piece of wood there first to prove the concept. Ideally it would be something that makes the footplate longer so my heels rest on the footwell and not some elevated thing. Suggestions appreciated...
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39856 by Belacqua
Glue some running shoe soles on that have a really high heel to toe drop ;)

There might be some nice pre angled foam blocks that are typically used for mounting boats on top of car roofs.

To protect the boat you need a material for the plate that can handle crushing forces like steel or if you don’t like weight, titanium.

Also, it might be a butt/seat shape issue vs technique issue. Slipperier pants might help though. I can’t get my best leg drive unless I have a foot bar on—so that is an option as well to help pull your opposite hip forward to give your pelvis room to rotate rather than get jammed backward.

Oh, and if I am really being ocd about it I rub body glide all over the bucket. Then it is much easier to go full Shakira :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39857 by Epicpaddler
I have the same problem on my v10. One of the little black rubber stoppers disappeared ( I actually watched it get sucked out of the bailer). I’ve been using a 5mm neoprene knee pad under the footplate. It provides a little padding for my heels too. I haven’t noticed any back or leg issues because of the few added millimeters of padding. I probably should glue it down because if it gets sand under it it would not be good.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago - 5 months 3 weeks ago #39858 by tve

Glue some running shoe soles on that have a really high heel to toe drop ;)
Haha!

Also, it might be a butt/seat shape issue vs technique issue. Slipperier pants might help though.
It's definitely technique, if I sit properly upright and tall and pull myself forward with the idle foot/leg the pressure on the footplate is greatly reduced and my stroke improves. But I can't hold that for a full session... But I'll put some UHMW tape down on the seat, that may help. Thanks for the tips!

I’ve been using a 5mm neoprene knee pad under the footplate
Sounds like it's worth a shot, I have some old neoprene flying around.
Another thought I've had is to drill new holes where the footplate attaches to the cross-bar, it's very tight but I believe I could get an additional 5-8mm...
Last edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by tve.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39859 by zachhandler
First thought is that what ever you put on there can be sacrificial. As in a cheap piece you replace once a year or whatever.

Second thought is that i think it is a sign of leg drive that your plate is eating the hull. Of course there can be powerful leg drive that feels good but does not contribute much to propulsion. Obviously the force of the leg straightening should be working against the resistance of the blade rather than compressing flesh against the back of the bucket.

3rd thought is that i have had some boats where there is a gap between bottom of footplate and floor of bucket. A little gap (less than 3 cm?) is ok but a gap that is too big allows the heel to push farther forward and nullifies the change in footplate angle.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39860 by agooding2
I put an old piece of table tennis rubber down there, they are about 4 mm thick.

Mine already had contact cement on them so stuck right down.

If you don't play table tennis this tip may not be so helpful.

-- Andrew

Nelo 550L, Streuer Fejna, Nelo Viper 55

Braca XI 705 EL blade, 17K shaft
Braca XI 675 marathon blade, 19K shaft
Braca IV 670 soft blade, 19K shaft

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39861 by waverider
Chunk of dense close cell foam eg yoga block. Cut a slot in it, place bottom lip of plate into slot. Glue if you like. Block is then wedged between bottom of plate and hull of boat. Provide a channel to allow drainage. Angle of plate can be modified by thickness of block and if desired block can be deep enough to form a heel pad.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39862 by waverider
Agree Epic OEM rubber bumper is a futile attempt at addressing the issue and doesnt last much longer than first couple of uses. Much like the ridiculous rubber cap on the bailer lever

Having a stopper of some stopper here reduces leverage placed on footplate mounts

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Wombat661
  • Visitor
5 months 3 weeks ago #39864 by Wombat661
Replied by Wombat661 on topic footplate digging into foot well
I don't have a Nelo, but reading of them using plastic for footplate has always bothered me. Is going to flex under load, and waste energy. The other issue is contacting the bottom of the boat under flex.
I would tie a rope from the bottom of the plate to the rail. Use a stiff rope like spectra. Maybe put some tape between the rope and side of the boat to prevent scratch. Once sand get in between rope and boat, it will act like sand paper.

Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39867 by zachhandler

I don't have a Nelo, but reading of them using plastic for footplate has always bothered me. Is going to flex under load, and waste energy. The other issue is contacting the bottom of the boat under flex.
I would tie a rope from the bottom of the plate to the rail. Use a stiff rope like spectra. Maybe put some tape between the rope and side of the boat to prevent scratch. Once sand get in between rope and boat, it will act like sand paper.

In the USA at least all 2020 generation nelo come with carbon footplate standard. Also the nelo footplate angle can be adjusted. But at least on mine it came already at the shallowest angle possible. I could make it steeper but not shallower as was my desire. It does not pivot freely as it is secured to the rails at multiple points. Very solid very nice footplate. Comes with traction padding already applied. Zero flex. No grinding of hull. Footstrap is great. K-1 style pole bar feels wonderful but it’s a 10 to 15 minute job with hex wrenches to adjust it. Not a big deal for warm water paddlers but where I live some lakes are warm in the summer and some state ice cold so I have to go back-and-forth between barefoot and booties periodically. That’s why Maggie at Nelo USA advised I go with the strap and it was good advice.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39868 by tve

K-1 style pole bar feels wonderful but it’s a 10 to 15 minute job with hex wrenches to adjust it. Not a big deal for warm water paddlers but where I live some lakes are warm in the summer and some state ice cold so I have to go back-and-forth between barefoot and booties periodically. That’s why Maggie at Nelo USA advised I go with the strap and it was good advice.

Weird 'cause when I got the carbon footplate I also got both a thick and a thin pad for the bar (goes on the inside of the bar, i.e. the part that the top of the foot contacts). They suggested to use velcro to attach the pad (or it came with velcro, don't remember) so I could swap to accomadate bare foot vs. booties. Maybe that was was an enhancement after you got yours.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 3 weeks ago #39869 by tve

Chunk of dense close cell foam eg yoga block. Cut a slot in it, place bottom lip of plate into slot. Glue if you like. Block is then wedged between bottom of plate and hull of boat. Provide a channel to allow drainage. Angle of plate can be modified by thickness of block and if desired block can be deep enough to form a heel pad.

Wind was calling and I didn't find any dense close cell foam I could cut up... Also, I'm not sure it would hold up to my stomping! So I took some EPDM rubber and folded it onto itself and glued it with some instant glue, then contact adhesive to my carbon insert frm the phto above. Placed so the bottom of the footrest sits on the rubber with about 8mm elevation. Given the practically zero curing time for the glue, it worked quite well. Here's a photo of the EPDM after the paddling (some of the glue released):



I think it was quite a success overall. However when I really stomp on the footplate it squishes by the rubber and then sits behind it, good punishment for stomping! but pretty annoying when I'm in the midst of a good run...
Also, whatever I put there really needs to be attached to the footplate, not the bottom of the ski so I can adjust the footplate forward/backwards.

More wind tomorrow, so I'll have to figure something out early AM so it gets a little more time to cure...
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 2 weeks ago #39890 by SpaceSputnik
How about 2-3 layers of Gorilla tape to the hull and made long enough so your heels don't scrub the edge off? Then replace as it wears down (if it does).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 2 weeks ago #39891 by tve

How about 2-3 layers of Gorilla tape to the hull and made long enough so your heels don't scrub the edge off? Then replace as it wears down (if it does).

Yup, that's a good idea to deal with the scraping. But I have two other problems I need to deal with. I need to somehow tweak the set-up so I don't push like a madman into the footplate. And I need to distribute the pressure so it doesn't weaken the hull just from the pressure, which is has started doing in my V12.

I contacted epic and got a disappointing response:

The footplate is configured to an optimum angle for good ergonomics with leg drive. A lot of R&D went into that positioning. I’ve never heard of anyone needing to change it!


Yeah. Right.

What I ended up doing is to glue some soft wood blocks as a footplate extension to slant the footplate more (~35 degrees from vertical instead of ~25 degrees). This way I put more pressure into the balls of the feet, but foremost, it's less attractive to wedge myself in between heel and lower back. Doesn't look professional, but if it does the trick...



Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
5 months 6 days ago #39930 by M.v.E.
I had the same issue with my Nelo 550. The screws for adjusting the footplate were digging into the foot weel because the rubber protection on the screws were too thin. Luckily I noticed that before any serious damage was done.
My solution was to purchase a pair of rubber protectors for trekking or Nordic Walking poles. They are much sturdier and with a Iitlle cutting I could sqeeze them over the screws. I did this over a year ago and so far I had no further issues.

Current Ski: Nelo 550 L
Previous Skis: Stellar SR 1. Gen. / Stellar SEI 1. Gen. / Stellar SR 2. Gen.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Atlas

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics