New Epic V12

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5 years 10 months ago #27592 by zachhandler
New Epic V12 was created by zachhandler
I keep checking to see if there is a post about the new epic ski. I guess I have to start it myself. I am very excited about this. I have paddled the original v12 since it came out in 2009 and I just love that ski. It fits me perfect, the seat is nice and high, the hull is fast, and it has an amazing amount of secondary stability. I did however start craving a boat that was a bit more playful downwind after having a great experience in a Fenn elite double a few years ago. I I ended up buying and paddling an Elite S for a season, and though the hull was great, I just could not get comfort or power because the fit was not right. So maybe this new v12 is what I have been waiting for. A familiar epic cockpit on a just as fast but more playful hull. I will get mine in April just as the ice is going out. I'll report back then.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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5 years 10 months ago #27593 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic New Epic V12
I'm curious to know who paddled the v12 in Hong Kong. Was it only Hank or did all the Epic guys have them? I've heard the new seat is much deeper.

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5 years 10 months ago #27594 by Uffilation
Replied by Uffilation on topic New Epic V12
btw. apart from the new V12, it is said that
there will be a new V8 double (6.70m, 0.57m)
and the V5 will be availabe in composite layups (perforamnce, ultralight) ...

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5 years 10 months ago #27595 by Scode
Replied by Scode on topic New Epic V12
In Hong Kong they had two new V12s. Hank and Jasper paddled them. Hank really liked the ski. He said it is much more stable and responsive downwind than the V14. I didn't get a chance to ask Jasper his opinion.

The square nose that is on most of the Epic boats is gone and replaced by a much more raked back Fenn style bow. It's much finer in the tail with more rocker and a deeper, slighter wider seat than the 14. Looks to be less volume in forward of the bucket also.
For me it's the best looking Epic ski I've seen. Smoother more Fenn like lines. I think it will be a popular ski.

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5 years 10 months ago #27598 by Cryder
Replied by Cryder on topic New Epic V12
I paddle the V14 downwind, and really like it for racing type situations. The low volume of the ski is a big advantage for over-gliding waves (using one wave to slingshot over the next few waves in front of you) in medium sized conditions (3 to 5').

But it's low rocker can limit turning options the waves, and I have to be careful to keep it super high on the wave to pivot easily. A V14 just doesn't have a ton of stability, so to sit on the frothing lip of a wind wave with the stern and bow totally out of the water can be a bit stressful. It's also a very wet ride. Upwind the V14 is impressive, so much boat run and very little bow slap with decent technique.

I don't care for ski's with lots of primary stability, I find they bounce around on the top of the water instead of nest deeply in the water. The once exception is the V8pro, as it has a soft chine shape on the edge of the hull that allows it carve like nothing else I've paddled.

I am hoping that the V12 will be that magic Goldilocks mix of great secondary stability, lower volume for overgliding, and maneuverability when actually on the waves. Can't wait.

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5 years 10 months ago #27603 by Scode
Replied by Scode on topic New Epic V12
Photo of the new V12 at the start of the Dragon Run in this post race wrap.

surfskiasia.com/blog/2016/11/17/the-2016-dragon-run

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5 years 10 months ago #27629 by Scode
Replied by Scode on topic New Epic V12
Video of Hank talking about the new V12. If ever there was an advert for the saying "stability before ability" this would be it.

www.facebook.com/EpicKayaks/videos/940054689429426/

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5 years 10 months ago #27661 by hamishglen
Replied by hamishglen on topic New Epic V12
Can anyone comment on the bucket size of the new V12?
I hope they have made this a bit, no, a lot more 'snug' than the remainder of the fleet.
I moved my V10 on for this reason, and replaced with Elite S - however this was my only complaint on the V10, other than the inflated price.
Even with a Kani seat and back pad to stop me sliding about, I never felt 'connected' in the V10 like I do in both the Fenn Glide and Elite S.
(For reference - 78kg, 180cm)

If the bucket is tighter, I'd be super keen to paddle the V12.
If not, not.

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5 years 10 months ago #27662 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic New Epic V12
I have the same complaint about the v10. I asked your exact question to epic. The answer is that the seat is just slightly wider than the v14 and much narrower than the v10. Seat height is slightly higher than v10. Because the bucket has higher walls than the usual epic models (to make for a drier ride) I suspect that the sensation will be one of sitting in rather than on the ski to some degree.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #28083 by OceanDC
Replied by OceanDC on topic New Epic V12
Best ever Epic ski, sell everything else and buy a v12, you will not regret it

Day 1 paddle, 35 km/hr wind 1 1/2 swell, paddle Clontarf to Grotto Point. In to the wind the boat was quick and really well balanced. It had none of the instability of the v14, none of The crappy v10 terrible boat handling in waves and swell.

Turn around with the wind on my back and a boat half full of water (had not worked out how to Open the epic bailer) and caught waves all the way back to Clontarf car park. My average speed was over a 1km faster per hour than what I would clock up in the Fenn Swordfish

Paddle 2, paddled from middle harbour yatch club, and had started last (compared to the squad), gunned it down the harbour (at ave speed of 12km/hr), past middle head (at ave speed of 11 km/r), chased and caught my squad. Accrording to my Garmin, I averaged 1-1.5 km/hr faster than what I would do in the Swordie

In the dark early morning conditions I had actually past my squad, caught up with and past a manly surf life saving spec ski squad completing sprinting sessions at Bradley's head.

Turned around and joined my squad to head along the coast to Bondi beach (turning around at Dover heights)
I had no issues with balancing through refracting waves off the rock wall between South head to Dover heights.

Despite my foot chock being to far forward (was rushing to catch my squad), I was still paddling faster than I ever had before.

Seat is really comfortable, and the riding position will be suitable for longer distance paddlers as well as hard core down winders. It definitely paddles more like a Fenn Ski

Loved it, bought it!

I'm 88kg, paddle 60% harbour, 10% lake and 30% beach/ocean (manly, Bondi, Clontarf, dee why and Mona Vale)

I'm looking for an upgrade from a Fenn Swordie S Surf ski, not ready to go up to Fenn Elite S just yet

v12 is a great interim step boat for those aspiring to get in to the Fenn Elite S
Last edit: 5 years 7 months ago by OceanDC.
The following user(s) said Thank You: zachhandler, Atlas

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5 years 7 months ago #28087 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic New Epic V12
Hey OceanDC, sorry for the late approval of the post(s).

I have the forum set up so that I manually approve the first two posts from any new member. The reason is that we're under constant attack from spammers and it's the only way to stop them. (Currently there are idiots trying to sell "essay writers" posting several times a week.)

Thanks for the contribution - glad you're enjoying the V12!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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5 years 7 months ago #28088 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic New Epic V12
OceanDC: Have you paddled the Elite S. In case, do you find the v12 more stable than the Elite S? How would you compare the two boats?

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #28089 by OceanDC
Replied by OceanDC on topic New Epic V12
I love the Fenn elite s ski, it is my hero Ski for sure. Elite S is faster than v12, however later in my paddles under heavy refracting waves I end up being quicker in the v12 or Swordfish.
"Stability before ability" is a saying I have yet to prove wrong accept in dead flat conditions.
When I did an effort from Clontarf to middle harbour I pulled 13 km/hr (vs the v12 12-12.5 km/hr)
V12 is definitely more stable and the seat is more comfortable, but if you are a smaller paddler and want a super tight fit the elite s will definitely give u this (with its deeper seat). V12 has higher sides than other epic skis, but still some how manages to be comfortable for a 43cm wide ski
Keith Fenn and his design team are rumoured to be in the process of updating the Elite S seat to increase the comfort (along with some other tweaks), and should release this in time to be available for the Doctor race 2017
For me I struggle with leg drive in the Elite S, as an intermediate paddler with reasonable balance and wave handling skills I struggle to paddle this boat at the moment (but do hope to be able to paddle this in the future)
In 40 km/hr + winds i will always head out in a swordie. In every other condition i will be head out in a v12
Last edit: 5 years 7 months ago by OceanDC.
The following user(s) said Thank You: zachhandler, Atlas

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5 years 7 months ago #28090 by OceanDC
Replied by OceanDC on topic New Epic V12
No probs, apologises for sending my blog multiple times.

Who needs essay lessons!! That's less time in the water for us paddlers!! ;-)

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5 years 7 months ago #28091 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic New Epic V12
Hey OceanDC...

I paddled a Fenn Elite S recently on a flat(ish) race in our local Tuesday Night series and clobbered the opposition, paddling away from them on the flat to their surprise... But I suspect that I'd find it twitchy in choppy conditions.

I usually paddle a Think Evo II - and I love it for its stability. I do a LOT of downwind paddling usually in rough water and I'm rock solid in the Evo II. But I've been looking for a "faster" all-round boat.

To confirm - you're saying that the new V12 is comparable with the Swordfish S in terms of stability?

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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5 years 7 months ago - 5 years 7 months ago #28099 by OceanDC
Replied by OceanDC on topic New Epic V12
I'm going to take the ski past bluefish, past curl curl heads and over long reef....will get a comparable feeling against the Swordie. The swordie has more secondary stability, strangely the epic feels like it has more primary stability
Bottom line Swordie is a great boat in rough water, but you pay a premium for boat speed in dead flat waters (in my case harbour series)
I love the Elite S, it's an awesome boat, but the jump from the Swordfish to the Elite S is too great.
Have gone from Grotto to Dobroyd, up against the sea wall Swordie vs v12, Swordie feels more stable in refracting waves
The Swordie probably has 15% more stability than V12, v12 is definitely quicker. so the v12 is the boat you would paddle after the Swordie.
If you have reasonable technique and fitness you would be good on this boat
Last edit: 5 years 7 months ago by OceanDC.

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5 years 7 months ago #28100 by JohnK
Replied by JohnK on topic New Epic V12
HI OceanDC,
Sounds what a lot of paddlers have been waiting for. Have you tried the remount? Traditionally the Epics are relatively easy to remount. The Elite S can present some challenges for those of us less experienced.
Great review.

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5 years 7 months ago #28106 by OceanDC
Replied by OceanDC on topic New Epic V12
I have place the V12 in harms way, but yet to fall off

Will need to do a fall in and remount at sea and in the harbour

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5 years 2 months ago #29219 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic New Epic V12
I have had a new v12 ultra for the past 2 months. Unfortunately the ski is not going to work long term for me because the bucket is too narrow at the bottom. I am skinny at 5'11" and 170 pounds, but my pelvis is wide. My sit bones end up riding up too far onto the curved sides of the seat. This makes the bucket somewhat uncomfortable as well as surprisingly unstable for me. It also tips my pelvis back, placing a lot of strain on my low back as I try to get into a powerful upright to forward leaning paddle position. I have tied all manner of seat pads with only slight improvements.

I know everybody else is in love with this boat and finds it amazingly comfortable and stable, and I can only say that I am jealous. The hull is a dream for surfing. It picks up bumps with ease, turns on a dime, and surfs intuitively. In many ways it reminds me of the Fenn Elite S that I previously owned, but had the exact same issues with because of bucket width.

I am perfectly comfortable in all other epic skis I have tried: v8, v8 double, v10, v10L, v10 double, v12, and v14. The v10 and v10 double seats are comfortable but annoyingly wide.

So my search continues for a replacement for my old beat up original v12 that I find much more stable and comfortable than the new version.

If anyone is interested I would take $3000 for it and if you tell me by thursday I can bring it to the gorge. It is in Minnesota now.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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5 years 2 months ago #29220 by LakeMan
Replied by LakeMan on topic New Epic V12
My condolences for your loss. You may want to offer a trade for your V12 if you know what you want to replace it with. I'm sure there are many paddlers who'd like an Ulta version of the 12.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

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