Surf ski speeds

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7 years 6 months ago #26629 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Surf ski speeds
I have paddled the SR but only on 3 honest but moderate downwinds ( honest 2-3'). It was very stable and impressively fast. It had as good or better glide than the Evo II I recently paddled (subjective opinion). I'm not sure what you think 'faster' is but you might be in for a shock. Wesley is comparing intermediate ski's with an advanced or upper intermediate ski, not an elite ski. A few seconds over 1/4 is a lot. Check out this link of what Epic ( Greg Barton ) thinks the speed difrence in his ski's is. Remember this in over 10 k/6.2 miles. Compare the V10 Sport vs. V10 as that's similar to the SR vs. SEI.
That's 3.5 seconds per mile for Greg and only 2.4 for the intermediate paddler. These numbers are a reality check for a lot of people and there expectations of ski speed difrences.

www.rivermiles.com/forum/Attachments/Epi...es_w-Greg_Barton.pdf

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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7 years 6 months ago #26631 by Aurelius
Replied by Aurelius on topic Surf ski speeds

Newbflat wrote: I have paddled the SR but only on 3 honest but moderate downwinds ( honest 2-3'). It was very stable and impressively fast. It had as good or better glide than the Evo II I recently paddled (subjective opinion). I'm not sure what you think 'faster' is but you might be in for a shock. Wesley is comparing intermediate ski's with an advanced or upper intermediate ski, not an elite ski. A few seconds over 1/4 is a lot. Check out this link of what Epic ( Greg Barton ) thinks the speed difrence in his ski's is. Remember this in over 10 k/6.2 miles. Compare the V10 Sport vs. V10 as that's similar to the SR vs. SEI.
That's 3.5 seconds per mile for Greg and only 2.4 for the intermediate paddler. These numbers are a reality check for a lot of people and there expectations of ski speed difrences.

www.rivermiles.com/forum/Attachments/Epi...es_w-Greg_Barton.pdf


I looked at Barton's comparisons the other day. No doubt a few seconds in a 1/4 mile would be significant in a race comprised of many miles (assuming his testing methodology that produced those numbers is sound), but it would be utterly meaningless in any other context. By "significantly faster", I had expected something like .5 mph faster, but it's nowhere near that.

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7 years 6 months ago #26632 by Newbflat
Replied by Newbflat on topic Surf ski speeds
Your expectations are too high. If Wesley found that the SEI was even a few seconds per mile faster that would easely qualify as significantly faster, and I have no reason to doubt him, he seams to be a straight shooter.. .5 mph faster is much much more than you should ever expect within ski classes .. Even jumping to an elite ski. After all Greag only pulls out 1 min 20 seconds/ 13 seconds per mile or 2.6 tenths of a mph faster going from the V10 sport to a V14.... He of corse can drive a ski exceptionally hard so there is that.

FENN Bluefin S
FENN Swordfish S carbon hybrid
Epic V8 double gen 2
Lot and lots of DK rudders.


Had:
Stellar SEL excel (gen 2)
Stellar SR excel (gen2)
Stellar S18s g1 (excel)
Epic V10 Double (performance)
Stellar SR (gen 1)
V10 sport (gen 2)
V10 (Gen 2)
Beater SEL (gen 1)

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7 years 6 months ago #26633 by photofr
Replied by photofr on topic Surf ski speeds
In my experience, a paddler just getting into "the Intermediate" level can take a surfski course and easily expect an increase in speed ranging from 0.7 to 1.2 km/h. Past that point, do not expect much more than 0.3 km/h differences.

For reference, 0.3 km/h differences are serious - a lot faster than you'd think. That's is primarily why stability is so important, because the second you ease off on your paddling, you will loose so much speed.

To go faster: you are always better off working on technique. If you are well trained, you can also work on higher stroke rates - for an instant speed increase... OR you can take your chance with a new ski that may be too tippy for your skill level.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)
The following user(s) said Thank You: ShaneS

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7 years 6 months ago #26638 by Aurelius
Replied by Aurelius on topic Surf ski speeds

Newbflat wrote: Your expectations are too high. If Wesley found that the SEI was even a few seconds per mile faster that would easely qualify as significantly faster, and I have no reason to doubt him, he seams to be a straight shooter.. .5 mph faster is much much more than you should ever expect within ski classes .. Even jumping to an elite ski. After all Greag only pulls out 1 min 20 seconds/ 13 seconds per mile or 2.6 tenths of a mph faster going from the V10 sport to a V14.... He of corse can drive a ski exceptionally hard so there is that.


So what all of you are saying is that there isn't going to be a .5 mph difference in speed between my SR and the SEL? That's the boat I was thinking of eventually upgrading to, but the speed difference is so minor, I'll just stick with the SR and save myself a lot of money.

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7 years 6 months ago #26639 by Aurelius
Replied by Aurelius on topic Surf ski speeds

photofr wrote: In my experience, a paddler just getting into "the Intermediate" level can take a surfski course and easily expect an increase in speed ranging from 0.7 to 1.2 km/h. Past that point, do not expect much more than 0.3 km/h differences.

For reference, 0.3 km/h differences are serious - a lot faster than you'd think. That's is primarily why stability is so important, because the second you ease off on your paddling, you will loose so much speed.

To go faster: you are always better off working on technique. If you are well trained, you can also work on higher stroke rates - for an instant speed increase... OR you can take your chance with a new ski that may be too tippy for your skill level.


Over the past couple of weeks I've increased my speed by about .5 mph. It's likely due to the fact that the muscle mass I had when I was paddling every day is coming back. I can already see the difference in the mirror. My goal is to be able to reach 8 mph on flat water, but it's much harder than I imagined. Drag appears to increase exponentially once I hit 6.5 mph. At 7 mph, it seems to require twice the effort just to get to 7.5 mph!

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7 years 6 months ago #26640 by [email protected]
Replied by [email protected] on topic Surf ski speeds

In my experience, a paddler just getting into "the Intermediate" level can take a surfski course and easily expect an increase in speed ranging from 0.7 to 1.2 km/h. Past that point, do not expect much more than 0.3 km/h differences.


Another possibility (and at any rate fun to use) is the Motionize device. I've been using one for nearly a month now and whether it's that I'm fitter, or that I've been much more aware of my technique or a combination of the two, my paddling partner is finding it much more difficult to compete with me.

I'll be posting a review article shortly on the Motionize gadget shortly. Think of it as an electronic coach whom you're aware of all the time and who is keeping your stroke under surveillance all the time!

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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7 years 6 months ago #26642 by Bill L
Replied by Bill L on topic Surf ski speeds

robin.mousley wrote:

Think of it as an electronic coach whom you're aware of all the time and who is keeping your stroke under surveillance all the time!


Gee - if you could only get it to shock you with a few thousand volts when you get sloppy on your stroke, you'd probably see even more improvement :laugh:

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7 years 6 months ago #26643 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Surf ski speeds
300 metres after paddling for an hour is a long way. We paddle for an hour most days and if I finished 300 metres back I'd be buying a new boat. In fact, I have on several occasions. When you paddle in a group finishing a few boat lengths off the pace is ok.....but 300 metres, you'd be struggling to see them.
In a race situation 300 metres is 1 to 2 minutes depending on how fast you're going.
.3 kmh sounds insignificant, but even paddling socially, it is a big advantage.

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7 years 6 months ago #26645 by photofr
Replied by photofr on topic Surf ski speeds
0.3 km/h seems in fact insignificant, but I agree that it's HUGE.
If I passed you with a smile doing 0.3 km/h faster than you, you'd be calling me names, and asking what was in my water.

Ludovic
(Brittany, France)

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