Epic V10 sport vs V10

chucktheskiffie wrote: Looking forward to a couple of downwinders with you in January Mick down at Merry... I'll be sure to bring the ski this year.

(this is Matt)

Going there this weekend for a few days Matt. Been meaning to do a small paddle from Merry around to Pretty and test the rebound off the big rock shelf. Rather have someone with me. Can be hairy in any swell over 1.5m and that was in a sea kayak not a V10S!

Mick

I did the cronulla bay runner in the sport on the weekend. I averaged 10.6kmhr over the 16 Kms. I loved the stability and for me this is a fast average.

If I could be just as stable in my v10 I think I could go about .5 kmhr faster.

In the sport I am concentrating on my stroke and the waves and conditions far more than I did on the v10. Because of the stability my workouts are brutal.

I think I need to be on the sport to get good enough for the v10

Just wondering how you find the ultra layup. Trying to decide whether to get the V10 sport in ultra or performance layup. Any thoughts would be great.

The performance layup is tough as nails and will last for years but is pretty heavy. The ultra layup is lighter but not enough to justify the huge jump in price.
The ultra is also extremely fragile in certain areas, even more than the full carbon. The one I bought and two mates both had problems with delaminating. They can't all be bad but 3 from 3 that I know personally is not a good sign.
I would only recommend the Ultra layup if you can't physically lift the performance.

peterpav - are those newer or older ultra layups? In recent years the weight of the Ultra layups has increased by about 2 kg, from what I understand a deliberate change to address the fragility issue.

I have to say tough as nails is not how I would describe my experience with my Performance V10L, I found it to be more fragile and susceptible to dings than any of my lighter ski's that followed. So whats going on here?

Can't comment on the Ultra models, never owned one myself.

I have owned, rented and used numerous Epic Ultras and they have all seemed to be very durable and well made to me.

It is all up to the user! I have skis that are many years old in perfect condition and then ones that are months old looking terrible.
Some people are just harder on skis than others. And generally most of the damage is land and car based.

Sorry for the intromission, but these skis are Great stuff.

Well designed and hard construction, confortable cockpit and easy to ride!.
Try both and you wont be able to decide which to choose.
Stability is also gorgeous.

Wave-proof!

Try with this!.

Sorry for the intromission, but these skis are Great stuff.

Well designed and hard construction, confortable cockpit and easy to ride!.
Try both and you wont be able to decide which to choose.
Stability is also gorgeous.

Wave-proof!

Try with this!.

Waking-up the old thread: yesterday paddled a bit the new V10 Sport (demo) and my own new V10. The Sport is much more stable, with very strong stability increase with even little edging. In contrast, the V10 only gains additional stability when edged to the limit.

The V10 very clearly feels capable of higher top speed (rewards your added effort with added speed more so than the Sport), but it is hard to tell if it is any easier to paddle at moderate speeds than the Sport.

Also, the seat buckets are different. The Sport has a flatter bottom of the bucket and is just a bit (not by much) wider than the V10. It felt that the seat in the V10 Sport promotes a more upright posture than the one in the V10 where I feel it causes me to slouch. Leg length is the same but the comfort of the buckets is different.

The Sport also turns better on flat water - the last couple of feet behind the rudder seem to resist turning on the V10 where they seem to slide more easy on the Sport. That's for a 200lb load (paddler and gear). And that is despite the fact that the V10 had the surf rudder and the Sport the small weedles rudder. The Sport's tail just curves up more than the V10's (and is a bit shorter too).

Overall I think the V10 is quite a bit of a step-up from the Sport in terms of balance skills needed but also in terms of potential speed if one has the engine to power it to a point where it matters.

Both were in the Performance layup (34lb) and I would say the construction is top-notch and very solid. I've had my V10 for over a year and a half now and no issues whatsoever (I'm gentle with it, so your mileage may vary). My Think Eze on the other hand, which I bought new several months after I got the V10 and is about 1 year old now, and which I have used fewer times than the V10 and just as gently on basically flat water only, is starting to squeak here and there. For example, it squeaks a bit when I adjust my position in the seat or when edging it. It is more flexible/lighter-duty construction in its "Performance" layup and at least 5-6lb lighter than the Epics. That slight flex apparently does not go well with the stiff and fragile pink foam stringer inside, which my guess is probably beginning to separate from under the deck near the seat bucket (had an old Futura Spear that developed similar and later much stronger squeaks after many years of use...)

Kocho... Did you get a sense of the speed difference between the two? Like at a given heart rate?I have been looking for info for some time to find out how the V10 sport stacks up against skis like the Evo II, Swordfish, Stellar SEI and other intermediate skis. It seems there is still very little info out about its speed both in flat water and downwind than most any other popular skis.

Sorry, no real speed data for a given heart rate. I think the Think Evo II maybe a hair faster and a bit less stable than the old V10 Sport, which I think was a hair slower than the new one (at least in sprints) and a touch less stable than the new one.

I did not have a GPS with me, and "feel" of speed can be misleading. But both I and the Epic rep there were of the opinion the V10 had a distinct edge in speed over the Sport. It just goes faster the harder you paddle. He thought the V12 felt the same way vs. the V10 - more speed for your hard effort. And that the V14 would just go as fast as he could paddle it

I think (for me) the difference in stability between the V10 vs. the Sport is bigger compared to V12 vs. V10. At least on flat water.

As for the Ion vs. the V10, I would base my choice on the fit and differences in rocker. The Ion has more rocker and the V10 very little, so I would not be surprised if the Ion is faster in bumps/downwind and the V10 in flatter conditions. I have not paddled the Ion, but I like what I read about it (check Wesley's recent review of it on surfskiracing.com, if you haven't). The V10 will be faster than Evo on flat for most people who can balance either boat well, IMO. Again, talking top speed, so for sprints and catching fast waves it will do better, and I'm not sure about long-distance paddling at more moderate speeds.

I have recently jumped into this fray. Have had a Sport since April and just bought a V10 last week. Both are in Performance. I only have two paddles in the V10 so far and both times there was a fair amount of swimming involved. But, quite honestly, both of the paddles were poorly chosen scenarios by me.

The first was my regular 8 mile training loop that includes a bay which is bordered on two sides by sea walls. When the wind is from a direction perpendicular to the sea walls the reflection waves setup a horrible washing machine scenario. Unfortunately, this was the case on my maiden voyage in the 10 and the results were as you can imagine. Lots of swimming. The balance of that paddle were pretty successful and I could definitely feel that the 10 felt slipperier than my Sport. On the flatter sections I was averaging around 6 mph where I would normally average 6.3ish in the Sport. Difference being what some others have mentioned....the ability to put more power in the blade on the Sport due to it's increased stability. At 6 mph the 10 felt like it had a lot more to give.

The second paddle was today and was an 18 miler in mostly open flattish water spoiled with too many boat wakes. The first 8 miles were very successful with a lot of GPS readings in that 6.3 range and above. A couple of bobbles in stability but nothing the secondary wouldn't handle. Then I made the mistake of chasing a boat wake down to get a ride. I didn't account for the extra length in the hull and tried to stick the boat in at the wrong angle. Swam. This was just my poor judgment. However, in the Sport I would have ridden that wake with success. Took a quick break on the beach of a small island at the turn point. As I started the run back home the power boat traffic really picked up and there were wakes at every angle in the book. A few swims. Speed was down as I was paddling into the wind and tide current. Felt very defeated at end of paddle. Probably didn't help that I was just plain fatigued during the last few miles as I had pretty much been paddling a race pace. Damn shame I didn't just paddle my 8 mile loop which I feel would have been succcesful.

As I started my paddle this AM I was joined by a fellow paddler. He decided after a mile or so to turn off as he wasn't comfortable with my pace. He is a very experienced paddler and had a couple of comments that were stroke related before he turned off. At the end of the 18 miler we reconnected and he stated that when he was following me he sensed that my paddle style was very_ thrashing_. Surprised, I asked what he meant. Now, the rest of the story. I am also an OC1 paddler. Anyway my fellow paddler said that my stroke with the wing paddle was very reminiscent of a canoe stroke. No wonder I've been pulling myself into the water. Ha. So, I think I have some stroke work to do.

I have a lot of hope for the 10 and imagine it is going to take some time to find my comfort zone just as it did when I started in the Sport with the confusion of paddling a lot of OC1 at the same time. I do like the feel of the 10 bucket and also had the same experience as the OP of the slouching as I fatigued. During the first half of the paddle I felt very comfortable in the bucket and appreciated that it felt a little more snug than the Sport. It just feels like I need more seat time.