Heart rate while racing?

More
9 years 5 months ago #16088 by 1xsculler
For those of you who race wearing a heart rate monitor I'm curious what your HR is during a 45' to hour long race. Please include your age and your Max. HR, which I'm sure you'll know if you use a monitor.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gixer
  • Visitor
9 years 5 months ago #16089 by gixer
Replied by gixer on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
38 years old
If I have a strong race my HR stays around 160BPM
Its lower around 140-150 if I have a lazy race and don't push myself.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16091 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
It's like asking what revs your engine sits at for an hour long drive, when you have a hefty V8 and your mate has a small 4 cylinder 1.6 turbo. HR is so different for everyone, comparisons are not worth doing. Only compare your own as you get fitter, or over train, have a cold etc.


Mind you, sports such as cycling have moved on from HR as it isn't an accurate guage of performance, far too many variables. Power is where it is at for those guys, and power meters rule the peleton.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1xsculler

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16092 by Kayaker Greg
Is a 43min race close enough? I'm 50 years old, my max is 187bpm (I believe the spike to 193bpm in the attached Garmin track is interference) so my peak for that race was 186bpm and my average was 176bpm.

connect.garmin.com/activity/289425341

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16095 by Love2ski
Im 46. I seem to average around 160 racing with a peak at about 166.

I track my 1 minute recovery rate which is now just under 50.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16096 by 1xsculler
Don't cyclists use blood lactate values? I know a lot of rowing programs do.
Stew, is there also a power meter of some kind?
I row almost every day and I always monitor my HR out of habit more than anything else.
I was just curious if paddlers do the same.
It took me three months to become a good enough rower/sculler to apply full power to get a good cardio workout. I'm assuming it will take me at least that long, going out every day, before paddling will provide a similar workout. Starting out in a V12 is not the best way to learn but I like a challenge and it's going well on flat water, at least. Side wind and chop today was torture.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16098 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
Cycling is dominated by power meters now. They may do lactate too, even kayakers do that. There are several ways of determining power on bikes, with many options available, the most reliable being at the crank, but a suitable unit (like an SRM) may set you back 2k.

Power meters are now available for kayaks, but again, not cheap, and not portable, so you're locked into using it with one paddle.

kayakpowermeter.com/en


Regarding getting your heart rate up for fitness training, it's been my experience that customers struggle to get a solid work out if they are struggling for balance, as they can't get enough power down, and consistently down, to get the heart rate up, as they are focusing more on staying upright. I'm not sure what level you're at, and if your boat of choice allows you to maintain a very strong stroke, ever stroke. If it does, you should be able to get a great fitness workout, if not, the workout won't be as good in terms of maintaining heart rate.

You may also find that you can't achieve your max heart rate paddling, as is the case with a huge amount of people. I'm one of those. Can get it higher doing a run test than a kayak test.
The following user(s) said Thank You: kayakpowermeter

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16106 by Wally
Replied by Wally on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
Stew is very correct in terms of stability, the bigger the wind the higher my heart rate the faster I go, but for my paddling mates some of them go down on heart rate and go slower because they cannot handle their skis.

By the way I not overly convinced on cyclists, maybe if I were on the stuff they take I might be a lot quicker and not worried about fundamentals like heart rate! SORRY HAD TO MENTION IT, no offence!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16113 by ElRicho
The better your technique the higher you should be able to get your HR. This is because you should be recruiting large muscle groups. I.e if you're just using your arms you will not get it even close to your max HR. I used to cycle competitively and I can get my HR way higher (on average in the boat). My thoughts anyway.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16114 by kayakpowermeter

Power meters are now available for kayaks, but again, not cheap, and not portable, so you're locked into using it with one paddle.

kayakpowermeter.com/en


Although it isn't mentioned on the website, I wanted to clarify that the kayak power meter is portable. You are not locked into using it with one paddle.

The athlete attaches their own blades to the kayak power meter shaft using the supplied re-heatable glue. When you wish to swap blades it is as simple as using a heat-gun (or hair dryer) to remove the existing blades to replace them with a new or different set.

There is a setting on the accompanying software that asks you to set what model of blades you currently have attached - changing this setting automatically changes the coefficients that the device uses to calculate power.

Thanks Stew for bringing this to my attention! I will update the kayakpowermeter.com website FAQs to clarify the portablity of the product.

The PB™ kayak power meter is AUD $853.00 + shipping.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #16115 by AR_convert

Wally wrote: Stew is very correct in terms of stability, the bigger the wind the higher my heart rate the faster I go, but for my paddling mates some of them go down on heart rate and go slower because they cannot handle their skis.


Spot on Wally, after months of nothing but flat water training I did a downwind with Wally last weekend, could not get my HR up and ended with a 155bpm avg. It was VERY frustrating not being able to apply the power I had developed on the flat.

In recent flat water marathons I have been able to achieve 180bpm avg over 10km and 178bpm over 18km. I am 43.

On max HR, once settled into a race if I am attacked or attack and get my HR to around 185 I hit lactate threshold and suffer speed wise for a while. I can go up to 190 for very short bursts (10-15 seconds) but any longer and I'll be spat out by the group.

I used to watch my HR during races to use it to know when I could attack and when to rest but I found it disheartening when I was just hanging in there with a group. Since I've stopped watching it (not displayed on Garmin screen) I am racing harder and faster just based on feel.

That said it is a good training tool, especially for not going too hard on the days your are meant to be just working on your aerobic fitness. (not over 150bpm)

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by AR_convert.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16120 by JazzyJ
Replied by JazzyJ on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
Hi,

An interesting experiment I performed on the treadmill was to keep my heart rate at 160bpm throughout the 20 mins of exercise starting at 7kph. The interesting thing was after 10 minutes I had to drop the speed to 6.3kph to maintain this HR @ 160bpm. At 15min I had to decrease the speed to 5.8kph. Comfortable walking pace is 5kph. I know what you are thinking, this bloke it really unfit. Yep, I am at 36!!! Putting that aside, the interesting thing was, that this is a good indicator of Stamina. How long can you go for?
What has this got to do with Racing? Well, how long can you paddle for at a constant HR? Our races tend to last for up to 1 HR+. This will tell me how long I can go for and how close to my anaerobic threshold I can get to to perform at my absolute maximum.
Look, I'm no professional racer, but sport science dictates what we are capable of. If we wear our HR monitors and count how many strokes we deliver in 1 minute at say, 160bpm, maybe this will help deliver strong racing conditions? Do the same at 170bpm and then 180bpm and see what happens?

Cheers JazzyJ

PS. HR Max formula is not correct!!!
I am 36 and therefore my Max should be 184bpm. (220 - age = 184bp). I have had my HR up to 195bpm running on a treadmill. Just like a 1RM weight lift, the same should apply for HR. Work at absolute max for 30 - 60 secs to get Max HR. This is the best method.
I believe HR has some effect!!!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16126 by rambo
Replied by rambo on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
I'm a self confessed gear freak, during my competitive racing years I tried all these gadgets and studied all the graphs, they did help to understand what is going on and any training effects on the body. But, in the end I found there was more to gain studying the bumps on the ocean than the bumps on a graph. :-)

R

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16127 by wesley
Replied by wesley on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
I have years and years of HR data as well from running and paddling and enjoy trying out the new HR watches. While I use my HR monitor admittingly too often, I find it most beneficial in the races over 1hr 45 minutes where if I racing alone in between packs without someone to chase, making sure my HR above a certain threshold has been very helpful to push the pace. Otherwise if I relied on perceived effort, often it would drop too much if I did not monitor it. I also find it helpful in the first 2 miles of a race to make sure I don't expend to much energy for the longer races of 2hrs or more. I should leave it at home for the shorter races 5-8 miles and just rely on perceived effort where I would push harder not knowing what it is. I also find it interesting knowing what my training partners HR when we race or do TT. We have compared HR so much(9 years and 4 years with different training partners) we know within a few beats the other ones HR on training TT and in races. The nice thing is my Max has not declined too much with age, so that is encouraging.

Wesley Echols
SurfskiRacing.com
#1 in Surfski Reviews.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16129 by JML
Replied by JML on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
Just in the last month we have been using a Kayak Cadence Monitor which connects via the Ant+ Protocol of your GPS Sports watches.
It is very interesting to look at the correlation between Speed / Paddle Length / Heart Rate / Kayak Cadence (Stokes per minute). The unit allows for real time monitoring of these different factors and how they relate to the effort and stroke efficiency.
If you often train on your own (as I do) it is very easy to slacken off in your efforts, particularly in your stroke rate. Also, in a race you can often get complacent as Wesley mentioned, if you are out by yourself without someone pushing you to put in a greater effort to stay in contact.
This additional data has been very illuminating and definitely makes you try that little bit harder in correcting your paddle skills and amount of effort you expend in training and racing.
More information on these can be found at www.fitnesspaddlers.com.au

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16141 by sAsLEX
Replied by sAsLEX on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?
29

Moving Time: 2:20:25
Avg HR: 169 bpm Avg HR: 90 % of Max
Max HR: 185 bpm Max HR: 99 % of Max

connect.garmin.com/activity/293720653

Yet to do a proper Max HR test on the boat, and still learning what I can push especially over the longer distances. Like someone mentioned earlier with running I can tell my HR from feel, but yet to achieve that paddling.

I also find when balance becomes an issue with some side chop or the like my HR goes up, even though my stroke get a bit wobbly...also downwind (when there is actually wind!)I tend to sit 10bpm higher that punching into the wind, again I think due partly to balance.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16143 by Kiwibruce
At the end of the day an athlete should know their own body and be able to tell when they're tired out or have more gas to burn without some machine doing it for you , I find them a distraction.
Listen to your body! It knows!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16144 by 1xsculler
I really appreciate all of your imput on this subject.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #16159 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?

kayakpowermeter wrote:

Power meters are now available for kayaks, but again, not cheap, and not portable, so you're locked into using it with one paddle.

kayakpowermeter.com/en


Although it isn't mentioned on the website, I wanted to clarify that the kayak power meter is portable. You are not locked into using it with one paddle.

The athlete attaches their own blades to the kayak power meter shaft using the supplied re-heatable glue. When you wish to swap blades it is as simple as using a heat-gun (or hair dryer) to remove the existing blades to replace them with a new or different set.

There is a setting on the accompanying software that asks you to set what model of blades you currently have attached - changing this setting automatically changes the coefficients that the device uses to calculate power.

Thanks Stew for bringing this to my attention! I will update the kayakpowermeter.com website FAQs to clarify the portablity of the product.

The PB™ kayak power meter is AUD $853.00 + shipping.


Thanks for clarifying that. Still, swapping shafts isn't the most portable solution for many guys.

If I had the spare coin I'd definitely try one out.

How does the software account for different lay ups. Some of the brands locally in Australia will play with softer blades for ocean racing, or does it just take into account the blade shape?

Some very cool new toys on the market now. I didn't want to mentioned the Vaaka units, as I sell them, and you tend to get a few negative posts if you mention things to represent, but I love the feed back from it, and it's definitely a great step forward for paddlers. Having a power meter is seriously cool also.
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Stew.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 5 months ago #16160 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Heart rate while racing?

Kiwibruce wrote: At the end of the day an athlete should know their own body and be able to tell when they're tired out or have more gas to burn without some machine doing it for you , I find them a distraction.
Listen to your body! It knows!


A really good point. From a technique perspective, I see guys paddling with their heads down, grinding, watching their GPS, rather than sitting up in the boat and focusing on good rotation and catch. Sometimes getting out for a paddle with no digital tools works wonders for technique and can be quite relaxing trying to not achieve speed targets.

Pop your GPS on the back deck, out of view, to record a session, then get out there and do it. You might be surprised at the results when you look at the file afterwards.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics

  • No posts to display.