Another Stability Question

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11 years 8 months ago #13547 by Watto
My slant on some of the brilliant tips above.

Re pressure of both heels, while that does lock the bottom plane of the tripod, it detracts from leg drive which is itself uneven. In troubled water/washing machine every-which-way slop in my SES I consciously relax my core more to not over-react (love seamonkey's comment about the boat not tipping without him in it) and keep up my leg drive. This seems to provide a rhythm and consistency. I also press lower back into back of bucket, snugging in and becoming part of boat. (Leaning back a bit in some boats when struggling for stability places weight over wider part of boat and increases stability). However as an extension of RAB and other's comments about time in boat, one of the things that time tunes up is how we read the slop and how we unconsciously adjust our stroke timing and downward pressure of ischial tuberosity (sit bones in butt which apply downward pressure) when rolling pelvis to stabilise the boat.

Time in the boat I reckon trains you unconsciously when to reach forward on the downside of the wave chop that just rolled under you, when to apply more power on one stroke as support because you're rolling one way or the other on front or back face of wave etc. I also notice how my cadence is not at all uniform in this kind of water when I'm feeling unstable - not so much bracing or support strokes, more paddling in anticipation, little faster to make sure next stoke on this side of wave; little slower to maintain support as back of ski drops away. In zen moments paddling in fear of ditching dissociated self sees things.

Another tip not referred to yet is maximising wing paddle stabilising effect by paddling on an angle away from the boat. Not sure what optimal angle is but I'm guessing at maybe 30 degrees out and away from boat - paddle becomes an outrigger briefly. Also avoiding common blue I sometimes make which is to paddle too far behind my hips occasionally (when fatigued or trying too hard). Anything unstable pushing you in direction where you're already leaning/reaching too far means it's extra hard to correct - you're already committed backwards and flippo you go. That was me this morning in the Swan River at 6.30am in a Nelo medium K1 (my 86 kilo arse was a squeeze). How the fkarking hell does my mate paddle that thing like a V8/XT fishing kayak? Hmm maybe all of above and some.

Chicks I've generally found to be better than blokes too - there's obviously proprioceptor control abilities (awareness of where your bits are and what they are doing) and basic balance which some have more than others. As in life we're prisoners in part to our genes, but there's some differences we can make to what nature has provided. Blah blah blah but it is interesting though, these battles we all fight at some point. (Hey, everyone takes a swim from time-to-time.)

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11 years 8 months ago #13615 by charles.nadia96
Do you ever get to where you can paddle one for extreme long distance? I would love to know that I can paddle one long enough to race in the MR340 (340 mile race) I did it in a WS Tsunami 175 and that boat is huge. Im new to Ski's as well. I can do about 6 miles now in my Futura C-4 just want to know that stability won't always be a issue! I do know that I could only do a mile on it the first time in it. Thank you for the Stability post for us new guys!

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11 years 8 months ago #13624 by dyno
Replied by dyno on topic Re: Another Stability Question
Greg - Great work with your seat pads, thanks for sharing. I paddle an SE - do they really make a difference in boat connection?

Q2 - As a newbie, I paddle without the footstraps. Am I missing much in stability?

This is because I twisted my back going about 6mph falling out. I dont feel like I lose that much in stability without them in wind-chop and boat wake.

Thanks all for the great advice here, it's really been help to get me going and confident on the SE. I am consistently turning out 9 min miles at a modest heart rate and with lots of caution, so as I get more comfortable expect the times to fall.

B

Sandy Hook NJ - Any one ski paddling?
Epic v10 double
Epic v10 sport * 2
Epic v8
Epic v8 double (summer '17)

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13625 by Kayaker Greg
My view is that no ski or kayak seat is made specifically for your butt and fit, you have the opportunity to make it so by making your own seat to provide comfort, connection or the ergonomics that you require. And its really quite simple to do so.
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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11 years 8 months ago #13629 by seamonkey
Kayaker Greg, it's amazing what some mini cell foam and contact cement can achieve. Once I figured out kayak outfitting, I could set up a new boat of mine in a half an hour.

charles.nadia96 I'm curious, as I paddle a Futura Blade, how long did it take you to get a 6 mile distance? Also curious about your Futura C-4, what are the dimensions? I'm really new to skis, and eager to get my balance so I can work on paddle technique! Right now I'm at the having-to-brace-too-often stage...

Rainer Lang

Seeking balance

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13631 by RightImBad
Reply to 1xsculler:
You can install inflatable "pillows" in your K1 to preventing it from sinking when water filled.
www.kajak.dk/udstyr-kajak-sikkerhedsudst...e-100x65-p-1132.html

Do some reentry training, how easy this is depends of course on the stability of the boat :)


You should be able to almost completely drain the kayak from water with the above technique but you could also install a foot pump.
www.kajak.dk/udstyr-kajak-sikkerhedsudst...plet-k1k2-p-260.html

OT Is it possible to change the nickname on this forum?
I think my nick is too similar with another nickname.
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by RightImBad.

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11 years 8 months ago #13632 by Rightarmbad
I'll just change mine to crap paddler if you like......

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
The following user(s) said Thank You: LakeMan

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11 years 8 months ago #13637 by RightImBad
I understand if you think I'm trying to make fun of your nickname, sorry about that.
I can assure you that this was a pure coincidence even if it seems unlikely, since the nick I usually try was taken I remembered an old Unreal Tournament (computer game) nick that always beat me.
It seems impossible to change it anyway so I'll create another account.

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11 years 8 months ago #13640 by Watto
Reply to charles.nadia66: with the MR340 being Class 1 and moving water on the Missouri, stability is no big deal other than boat wash, however fighting a boat on flat water the whole time just to stay upright will ultimately result in core muscle failure, lower back generally. I've been there on a choppy support paddle for swimmers in the Rottnest Channel swim (only 20ks) at slow speed in a skinny boat. 5hrs in I was cactus and that's doing very little paddling, just staying upright at 4kmh in slop.

Far better off in a moderately less tippy (slower) craft. Other thing is as you'd know anyway, spending long hours in whatever craft before-hand as a trial. Avon Descent here a 133 km downriver race in Western Australia years ago (that's the Avon in my avatar) the Cole kayak I was paddling had me in absolute agony for most of one day. One arse-cheek / sit bone side of my backside would go numb and carry down into my leg. Short of it is ensure boat fit. There are heaps of after market pads and stick-on bits these days not to mention handy DIY's online so there are plenty of ways around this problem. Thing is as with all major expeditions is putting you and your eqipment in similar circumstances more than once before the day and remediating as you go.

MR340 sounds like a really cool event. Our Murray Marathon the Oz equivalent of yours - see www.murraymarathon.ymca.org.au/participa...5-day-challenge.html.

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11 years 8 months ago #13643 by Watto
Interesting pisstakes going - rob.ratley, Wetto, Kayaker Grog, ARSE_convert, Iwon_fromWales, dunno .. lol.

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13646 by Rightarmbad
Sorry to go off topic again, but, I didn't assume that you were taking the mickey.
Your posts suggest otherwise.

Keep it, it'll keep people alert.

My post was a cheap shot at previous cheap shot posts of late.



Wetto?

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Rightarmbad.

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11 years 8 months ago #13652 by charles.nadia96
Thanks Watto,
That does look like a fun race! The MR340 is 547 kilometers! I did it in 66 hours and I'm looking to do it in 50 hours in a ski next time! After talking with you and Dez I would love to come to Aus. to race and paddle!!! Thanks for the info Watto!
Charles

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11 years 8 months ago #13655 by Kayaker Greg
Maybe if you guys each add an avatar to your profile it will be easier for us to distinguish between you at a glance. :)

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11 years 8 months ago #13659 by charles.nadia96

seamonkey wrote: Kayaker Greg, it's amazing what some mini cell foam and contact cement can achieve. Once I figured out kayak outfitting, I could set up a new boat of mine in a half an hour.

charles.nadia96 I'm curious, as I paddle a Futura Blade, how long did it take you to get a 6 mile distance? Also curious about your Futura C-4, what are the dimensions? I'm really new to skis, and eager to get my balance so I can work on paddle technique! Right now I'm at the having-to-brace-too-often stage...


Seamonky my C-4 is 20 foot X 18.5 inches wide. The distance gets better every time. Well it was until the C-4 went in the shop for a new gel coat. I paddled a valley Rappier for a couple of miles and it helped my balance due to it being like 17 inches wide.

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11 years 8 months ago #13660 by charles.nadia96

Kayaker Greg wrote: Maybe if you guys each add an avatar to your profile it will be easier for us to distinguish between you at a glance. :)


Try to but it wont shrink my photo down!

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13662 by seamonkey
D' Ohh! I forgot to post the specs for my Futura Blade. I found the specs on topayaker.net

Length: 20' 8"
Width : 17-1/2"
Notes: Tippy :side: (Yes)

Looking forward to more bucket time!

Rainer Lang

Seeking balance
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by seamonkey. Reason: punctuation

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11 years 8 months ago #13665 by Rightarmbad
Yes, next time out with my GoPro, I will take a picture from the front of the boat looking back at my orange shirt.
That should make it clear.....

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 8 months ago #13668 by RightImBad
Thanks Rightarmbad.
Tried to create another account but it's not allowed to create a second account with same email... :huh:
Followed Gregs advice and fixed an appropriate avatar, managed to tip over my Stellar SEL yesterday on almost flat water. :whistle:
I was paddling the last few hundred meters back to the boathouse at about 11,5 kph and had no problem with stability, heart rate was high but hey - I'm a beginner. :)
All of a sudden I was swimming and had no idea what happened.
The surface water is only 10C at this time of year so I forgot to check for boat wakes and focused instead on remounting the ski for the first time.
Was afraid to scratch the ski with the paddle so I tried without it, got to the point of getting my last leg in but fell over three times and that was enough for the day.
I'll do some more remount training next time and then with the paddle.

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11 years 8 months ago #13681 by Rightarmbad
Oh man, I so want your avatar picture.

I run a paddle leash so I don't get boat scratches from my paddle.
It just floats in the water and I remount easier without it.

A small bit or tubular wetsuit or similar type material slid over the locking mechanism will prevent scratches.
That's the only bit that will scratch.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 8 months ago #13687 by charles.nadia96
Got my avatar up! Its my C-4!
I think the C-4 and the blade was the top race ski's from Futura in 96!

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