First attempt at a surfski

68 years old, 6' 2" tall, 160 #s, 34" inseam, competitive single sculler for seven years, never paddled a kayak longer than 9' or narrower than about 30" and then only a few times, just bought a really nice condition Huki S1-X carbon/Kevlar and a 212cm Fenn 4 paddle. I live on Horsehead Bay in Gig Harbor, WA so I have a mostly calm body of water 150' from where I keep my boats. I put on my wetsuit this morning and tried out my new toy. Pretty freak'n tippy but I expected that. I kept my feet dangling in the water and that went OK so I started bringing my feet up out of the water and hanging onto the sides of the footwell with my toes and I rolled over a couple of times at first but got so I could stay upright fairly well. If I bring my feet down into the footwells I can get a few strokes in before I roll over. My total outing was about 30 minutes. Rolling over in my Huki reminds me of catching a crab in my racing shell, i.e. once you reach the point of no return there is no return. You're going for a swim. My question to you guys; What should I do or be thinking about to keep my boat from rolling over? Some of you will probably tell me to buy a more stable boat like a S1-R or a V-8 or an XT but I've got patience and a very convenient rowing and paddlding set-up here so there is no urgency to my situation and I don't want to go through a bunch of boats if I can avoid it. Rowing is still my main fitness activity and my interest in paddling is mainly to build up my core to give me relief from rowing related lower back problems and it seems like a sport I would really like. Any suggestions on improving my stability in my Huki? I think I've got pretty good balance for an old dude as I can still ride my unicycle, my snowboard and a kiteboard.

Always nice to welcome another ex-sculler to ocean skis. I always thought that anyone who can sit on something as thin as a single scull - and go backwards at the same time - can do pretty much anything involving balance?

Seriously though, I know what your going through. We all went through that stage, and believe it or not, pretty much all of us have done it without the stability skills that you clearly have to begin with.

First, you have not chosen the most stable ski to learn on (sounds like you know that already - but it needs saying again). It's like getting onto a full racing scull on your first day at the rowing club without first having served your time pushing the rowing tub back to shore after falling out of it a dozen times. Yeah - I am still traumatised by that too.

Second, ask any experienced paddler to spend some time giving you the basics of ski stability. Paddlers are a great bunch, and while often appear solitary, are pretty much always happy to assist a new paddler. I have asked the dumbest ski questions of total strangers, only to be given time, understanding, and excellent advice - and on one occasion to later discover that the "nice helpful paddler" who spent an hour helping me one cold morning was one of the legends in this sport.

Third, join a group of paddling beginners, as "misery loves company" - sorry poor attempt as humour . This will enable you to try a few different boats and you will notice a huge difference in stability between your Huki and, say, an Epic Sport or a Fenn XT.

As for some specific assistance until then: - keep doing what your already trying - namely start paddling while sitting with both legs in the water; then slowly raise the feet until your toes are resting over the gunnels (but where you can quickly drop the legs back in the water when you feel yourself starting to tip). Also, get that blade in the water (just like in rowing). Some good stability comes from your blade being in contact with the water (indeed, when you master that Huki and get out into rougher water, that's where nearly all your stability will come from).

Enjoy!

Thanks, Dooley. I guess I should have figured out that learning how to use the blade in the water is where most of the stability comes from just as it does in rowing.
I started my rowing in an elite single racing shell right in front of my home seven years ago, i.e never did get in a more stable boat. It took about three months of sculling every morning before I could apply full power and get a good cardio workout. I only went over once when I hit a buoy which pulled my oar under. I guess surfskiing will have a similar learning curve so I will persevere on by myself just as I did in rowing. I never see any other scullers unless I car-top to a regatta and I've not seen another surfski in my home area ever. Gig Harbor does have a very active and successful high school canoe and K-1 kayak racing team. I have no goals of going out in rough water, riding waves or competing. I'm just looking for another way to get a core and cardio workout.
I assume the leg drive and timing, which I haven't figured out yet, contributes to stability. How do you drive your legs without pressing the rudder pedals?

1xsculler wrote: How do you drive your legs without pressing the rudder pedals?

The rudder pedals - for people with big feet - should be pretty flat with the footplate to prevent rudder activation during normal leg drive. You then drive through the heel and back half of the foot, and only use the ball of your foot to depress the rudder plates when turning.

You definitely have a nice boat! Huki makes some fine surf skis. When I first started out here on Maui way back when, there were very few other paddlers, and no internet. The best thing I found was to just go out onto the water and sit in the boat. Don't even try paddling, just sit there, keeping your feet in the well. You start to huli, put your feet into the water, instant ama... Best of luck. And there is nothing wrong with starting with a S1X as opposed to an R. More of a challenge, that's all. It's actually more difficult to just sit there than it is to stay in motion paddling.

Aloha from Maui

holonalu wrote: You definitely have a nice boat! Huki makes some fine surf skis.

Agreed, these are very nice boats.

Sculler, thinking back on my own days learning to paddle some more stability tips have just come to me, so I will pass them on for what its worth:

(1) Make sure your leg length position is not set too short (I don't know if its adjustable in your model of the Huki, but I assume it probably is) - rough rule of thumb (and only rough) is to be able to slide your fist under your knees when seated in the ski. If the leg length is too short then it will probably feel less stable. Sometimes it is good to go a fraction longer in the leg length when first learning, then shorten up when you get your balance.

(2) Sit up nice and straight and then lean a bit forward from the hips (don't slouch), that is the position you will find strongest and easiest to get body rotation (paddle strength, like rowing, comes from the big muscles of the core a and legs, not from the arms). Do not lean back, that will make you feel unstable.

(3) Concentrate on getting the blade catch before you begin the stroke. Just like in rowing, starting the stroke too soon (in the air) is a waste. This is not really a stability tip, but it is something that most paddlers constantly have to practice.

(4) Don't leave your exit too long - this is a stability issue. The power of the stroke drops right off at about the level of your hips. This is where the blade should be exiting from the water. If you leave the stroke too long you will both upset your stability and waste energy by lifting water at the end of the stroke.

(5) Make sure your blade length is right for you, and set a blade pitch (if your blade is adjustable) that is suitable (this is something that you need to personally discuss with experienced paddler - not something that can really be done from text messages). I see your 6'2" and your blade is set to 212 - that is also my height and usual default blade length. So this already sounds about right.

(6) Allow your blade to follow a natural "J" curve through the water - so that when it exits it is already in a position to simply slide out of the water edgewise. In other words, don't keep the stroke too close to your boat throughout the last half of the stroke. If you do you will find this unstable and it will feel unnatural.

(7) Try and avoid (while learning) side chop or boat wash from the side. Paddle perpendicular into boat wash (to avoid swimming ).

(8) Don't look behind while paddling (that will make you feel more unstable).

Sorry, this is probably way too much information. So just use what works for you, and discard the rest! Remember, if it feels right then it probably is right.

Thank you very much! This is all very good information and just the type of advice I was hoping for.
One problem has reared its ugly head and reminded me that my right shoulder becomes quite sore a day or two or three after paddling a kayak. I thought this problem was a thing of the past as the last time my shoulder talked back to me was about three years ago. I'm still rowing for fitness and I will get my Huki back on the water this weekend if my shoulder becomes completely quiet. If it flares up each time I go out I'll have to bag surfskiing and work on more conventional core building exercises to compliment my first love which is rowing.

Sculler, better than I will give great on the water tips..

This is an off the water one that I am shocked to admit helped me so I am passing it on...

I found that sitting on a 55 or 65cm balance ball (Swiss ball), feet in the air while watching TV has been the signal greatest off the water trick to help improve my stability... It works!

Doing this for just one week every night all but ended the initial shakes I used to get when I first got into my ski in the mornings.

Just like balance in the ski, it's a little tough at first, but in a very short time you will probably rolling around just like he is in this video.




Sidenote: I unknowingly paddled into a large shoal of baitfish today and when I got right in the middle of it, larger fish started to harass them causing a 15 meter area of the smaller fish to explode into the air.

A dozen of them hit the bow of the boat. Two landed in the cockpit and the one lucky winner jumped up and hit me square in the head!

But I stayed in the boat and am damn proud of myself for doing so!(laughing)

I've had a Swiss Ball for a couple of years but never put air in it. I'll fill it up tonight. I had viewed that video a few days ago but I couldn't tell whether the guy was balancing or had his feet on the floor. After viewing it for the second time it's obvious he is balancing on the ball and rolling around with his feet not touching the floor. This looks like a skill well worth learning which may help in surfskiing, rowing and for some core tightening. Thanks for the post.

Filled the ball up at noon and now am trying it at me desk in my office. I can't imagine I will ever be able to balance on this sucker but I wiil work on it. It kinda feels like my boat, i.e. I just roll over. I'm going to get another one for home. If the guy on the youtube vid. can do it I ought to be able to figure it out eventually.

1xsculler wrote: One problem has reared its ugly head and reminded me that my right shoulder becomes quite sore a day or two or three after paddling a kayak. I thought this problem was a thing of the past as the last time my shoulder talked back to me was about three years ago.

My guess it is because your too tense (who isn't when trying to first learn how to stay on a boat); using your arms too much to paddle with; and probably not used to holding the arms up high so long.

Sometimes one of my shoulders will give me trouble if i've had to do a long paddle with side chop or swell from one direction. This is because of overcompensating for the water movement from one side.

Anyway, just rest it a day or so and then try again. In time it will (hopefully) abate and you will begin to enjoy this fantastic sport.

I can't believe it! After my first thirty minute attempt on a surfski last Sunday I thought I may be too old to learn to do this, i.e. With my feet in the boat I couldn't keep the boat right-side up for more than a couple of strokes and I felt totally helpless to keep it from rolling over. I did start using a 65cm exercise ball in place of my chair at my dental office but only for a few minutes at a time and only yesterday.
Today I decided I'd give this at least one more try and much to my amazement I could paddle back and forth in front of my home with my feet in the boat using the very responsive rudder pedals to steer. No, I don't feel real comfy and I did roll over once but I absolutely could not believe how much I improved. I got so excited I cut my paddling session short (15 min.) so I could report how happy I was on this forum.
Thanks to Dooley and you other responders. All of the information you provided helped a lot.
At this point I'm really glad I paid a little more for a really nice condition 24 # boat and a wing paddle. I now feel like a four year old with a brand new bicycle. I will learn to ride this thing or die trying.
I didn't think it would be possible for me to sit in my boat with my feet in the footwells and stay up-right. Now I know I can do it.
I think I can deal with my shoulder issue if I ice it for ten to fifteen minutes after every paddling session. I had to do the same for my first few years of rowing too.
Thanks again for all of the good advice! I am stoked!

The guy in the video is Julian Norton Smith from Paddle2fitness on the Gold Coast.
A real nice bloke a great coach and a pretty handy paddler as well.
He has a few coaching videos on YouTube Paddle2fitness which I've found pretty usefull.
He also does video analysis which I found very usefull. Send him a couple of minutes of paddling footage off your phone or camera and hell email Back his thaughts and some areas to improve and how to do it.

Cheers
Chris

Sculler congrats! Enjoyed your enthusiasm...

That's exactly how I use the ball; just a few minutes at a time. I generally use it while watching commercials during a show or two at night.

I also saw immediate results after using it for the very first time...

Lately, as I have been going through the process of learning, what I found out is that for me personally, the times I am most unbalanced seem to be the first few minutes I get into the boat and when I have paddled to the point where I get overly tired.

After my first evening of sitting on the ball, the next morning I sat in the boat and I immediately felt more stable than usual.

Just this week I got caught in small chop and current conditions that were above my capabilities. I had to use a few very hard paddle-in-the-water braces, combined with a strong flip of the hips to stay upright. One of the braces was so hard, it actually hurt my wrist ...

Because of my time on the balance ball, when I braced muscle memory took over and my hips flicked the boat back up so fast I declared to myself outloud, "Holy crap, Where the hell did THAT move come from?"

For me personally, I don't think the ball strengthens my core as much as it trains it to relax. Like Dooley stated, you were probably too tense first time out.

Using the ball really appears to loosen up my hips significantly. It also seems to have increased my side to side range of motion, as well as my emergency hip-flick reaction time during a brace.

As I said, it is the one single off the water trick that seems to have helped me the most. I'd go as far as saying that balancing on the ball probably improved my overall flatwater balance more, in a shorter amount of time, than many hours of actual paddling.

Sculler, wonderful news. Now there will be no looking back! Every time you paddle you will fall off less and less and one day, in the not so distant future, you will suddenly realise that you have not fallen off for a week of so...

The Swiss Ball exercise FallGuy put you onto sounds great. I wish someone had told me about it when I was learning.

I wish you good paddling.

As a new paddler my balance is not at all good. This is so different from skills required for mountain biking in terms of balance.

So I started on a 65 cm Swiss ball yesterday. It is difficult. After just 10 minutes my abs were on fire. This morning on the ball again. Used a broom handle to simulate arm position on paddle. I did see a bit of improvement.

The Swiss ball is great.

Keep it up.

1xsculler, I've always been curious how single scullers stay perfectly balanced on a 12 inch wide craft and sitting way up high.

I assume because the paddles are so far out, they act as solid outriggers. But what about stability during the recovery.

A surfski/kayak would seem to have the advantages of an alternating stroke, lower seat, are wider, and have a forward facing position (human's being genetically more comfortable going forward).

Why would a kayak be difficult to balance coming from a scull?

Balance is so totally different in a surfski vs. a racing shell. If you can develop an even, stable, drive and a clean, balanced release your racing shell will remain pretty much on an even keel during the recovery. You need not pay much attention to balancing it and you've always got the backs of your sculling blades to tap on on the water if you should roll a little. Your blades can be used as training wheels for as short of a time, or as long of a time, as you choose. I've rowed for seven years and have never gone for a swim.
I've gone for at least twenty swims during my first several weeks on my S1-X. The paddle is nearly useless for balance for a beginner surfskier, i.e. it's all in your butt and torso, and while it is a learnable skill, it requires the utmost in concentration at all times. There exists NO training wheels in a surfski or a K1. Physical and mental endurance are required and when either gives out you'd better head for shore.
Totally different experiences and both are a lot of fun. I'm hooked on both.

"the paddle is nearly useless for balance for a beginner surfskier"

1xsculler has made an observation that I think is key to arriving at a high comfort level in the ski. A beginner thinks about balance from the standpoint of not trying to upset the tippy boat. In this case the paddle truly is useless except as a stopgap measure. (there is only reaction to heeling not real dynamic stability of the whole system) The way forward is to visualize the forward stroke as the source of your stability, NOT THE SKI!. Eventually (with practice)you will arrive a technique that loads the paddle with body weight and will have the effect of making you more stable..In other words, it's not as though the boat magically becomes more stable, or even that your steady state balance improves, It's that your stroke is so powerful and supportive that you can literally forget about the minor perturbations of the ski and feel like you are almost unweighting the boat and using only your stroke for support. That is the holy grail. Time in the ski/swiss ball will definitely help your balance esp when surfing runs, but true zen is when your paddle technique is your source of balance and you can almost disregard the boat. . Not easy to achieve, but for sure why someone like Clint Robinson can hammer in an elite ski in all conditions. There is no such thing as true balance of the ski w/o optimal stroke technique.

Very interesting and very well stated! Thank you!