Carbonology splash for a kids surfski school?

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1 month 2 weeks ago #40096 by zachhandler
I have been toying with the idea of starting a kids summertime surfski program in minneapolis. Ideally i would like to have a small fleet of the same model skis, maybe 10 total. This would be mostly kids 9-14. Does anyone have experience with carbonology splash with kids? I have read that it is intermediate and tippier than some adults expect. But kids learn quick right? Or maybe that is wrong and a truly stable boat is best. We mostly have flat water here. Or is there a different boat that you would suggest? There are great adult boats out there suited to smaller people, but they are twice the price. Sam with think jet which is a great design and a beautiful ski. Plastic is an option, but no cheaper than the splash and i feel like a 70 pound kid pushing a 50 pound boat through the water is not going to feel the fun of the sport as much. Any thoughts appreciated.

Zach

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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1 month 2 weeks ago #40100 by Arcturus
I cannot answer your question about the Splash or suitable kids’ skis in general.

However, as a small person who was always battling with being corked in various kayaks supposedly designed for “smaller paddlers,” I want to point out one thing:

Any surfski is going to be a lot narrower than the typical rec barge that kids get put in, along with a way-too-long adult paddle. 240cm for a child—really?!? Many rec kayaks, including SOTs, are 28” wide or more. And yeah, if it’s a hot day and the kid is not hydrophobic, he or she will likely laugh if they tip over (PFDs on, of course).

Jackson Kayaks did a huge favor to families of kids who wanted to paddle WW rivers. (That’s what I bought for myself when I got a WW kayak: a Jackson Sidekick.) I’ve seen really small kids paddling in the little boats, and they are having fun. The kids on bargey rec kayaks may still have fun, but mostly they’re banging gunnels constantly, beetling in random directions instead of controlling the boats, and probably don’t learn much, paddling-wise.

So I guess what I’m saying is kudos to you for thinking of how much size and fit and weight matter to small ones. Good luck with your idea.

AND...would you allow an older person to join the class? I promise that I’m similar to a 14-yr-old in size and weight. ;-)
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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 2 weeks ago #40102 by Atlas
As we all know; stability is a relative thing. One of the many relative factors is centre of gravity. I would imagine that a small (short) paddler would experience a similar relative stability in a 49 cm wide Splash to what a tall paddler would experience in a 54 cm wide V8. Conversely I'm sure that a tall paddler would find the Splash to be intermediate in stability. Such a paddler is not the target user of that ski.

Arcturus' comment regarding the ergonomics of skis for small framed paddlers is really important too.

I don't have direct experience with the Splash but it's hard to see how you would go wrong with that model. I'm quite sure the designers at Carbonology Sport know what they are doing.

Enough stability is good. More isn't better.

Current boats
Epic V10L Ultra, Carbonology Sport Boost LV X, Fenn Bluefin, Nelo 510, Fenn XT double, Nelo 600, Expedition Kayaks Azure

Previous boats
Spirit PRS, Fenn Swordfish, Fenn XT, Fenn Swordfish S, Think Zen, Epic V10L Club, Epic V9 Ultra, Carbonology Sport Boost LV
Most with DK rudders
Last edit: 1 month 2 weeks ago by Atlas.
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1 month 2 weeks ago #40104 by Kayakintro
Hi! I joined a while ago but never introduced myself. I am Olivier and I live in New Zealand. I am new to paddling. Got a small kayak for my daughter in January 2021, liked it, got a Tarpon 140, then a sit on top double for family trip, then a Epic V7 in November and a Fennix Swordfish S in January. We are also into SUP with a inflatable Red that got quickly replaced by an Allstar 2017 14x28 and a NSP Carolina 2019 14x24. I paddle one hour at least nearly everyday unless it’s foggy or the sea gets dirty (sewage overflow with all the rain we are getting).

But kids learn quick right? Or maybe that is wrong and a truly stable boat is best.
Zach

Kids learn very quick and have an excellent balance. My daughter at 11 was paddling the V7 without any trouble and now at 12 she paddles the Swordfish S. She prefers it to the V7 because it is narrower and lighter. She has no balance problem at all, can eat her snack on it etc.
We do short one to two hours trips, from Mission Bay in Auckland to Rangitoto island or Browns island.
She is a bit more into SUP and swimming though.

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1 month 2 weeks ago #40106 by balance_fit

Or is there a different boat that you would suggest?
Zach

Greetings Zachhandler

Congrats on an excellent idea! I'd recommend a Fenn Bonito.

My wife has one, she weighs under 105 pounds, and just under 5 feet. She only has good things to say about it. Sturdy and very fast little ski.

I took a ride on it, curiosity got the best of me. I'm 5'11", 163 pounds. Even though the foot rest, all the way forward, was a bit short, Bonito held my weight, and I felt stable in flat water. Just 5 strokes to get past 10 kph!

Questions welcome

JD

Simple, not easy.

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1 month 2 weeks ago - 1 month 3 days ago #40107 by slow
If you want to get some info from someone who's tried this, you could try contacting EJ at Jericho Beach Kayak (jerichobeachkayak.com/) and asking them what's worked for them. I know they run summer camps for kids with a fleet of Think Jets. They're located on English Bay, which is on the ocean but semi-protected because it's behind Vancouver Island, so not rough but also not flatwater conditions.

I think kids are expected to have a bit of kayaking experience (basically to have taken one class from the same place and/or have equivalent skills) but aren't expected to be "serious" paddlers and I believe they end up paddling all over the bay by the end of the class.

Based on the third-hand information I have, I would guess that you'd be basically ok on flat water with a fleet of Carbonology Splashes since that boat should be a bit more stable than the Think Jet and the conditions will be much easier than kids face paddling out of Jericho Beach, but I'd recommended chatting with EJ and getting their direct opinion.
Last edit: 1 month 3 days ago by slow.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #40109 by Hugh
I don't know the Splash but the Fenn Bonito would be a great alternative. My wife and children love theirs. Being short it is light and easy to handle off the water. The cockpit is a little too short for me at 5'9".
I heartily agree that putting a child in a boat that weighs 50lb and that they can hardly reach over the sides of is unkind.
My impression is that kids do better in a slightly wobbly boat than adults of similar ability. I think they will quickly master a Bonito. If you are concerned about stability it might be worth looking at the Spaceshifter www.soulwaterman.com/collections/kids-ka...roducts/spaceshifter
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by Hugh.

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1 month 1 week ago #40111 by zachhandler

Kids learn very quick and have an excellent balance. My daughter at 11 was paddling the V7 without any trouble and now at 12 she paddles the Swordfish S. She prefers it to the V7 because it is narrower and lighter. She has no balance problem at all, can eat her snack on it etc

Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds like you get a lot of time on the water. How often does your daughter get out? just trying to get a frame of reference for skill and quick improvement. Paddling an hour a day in NZ sounds heavenly to me!

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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1 month 1 week ago #40112 by zachhandler

If you want to get some info from someone who's tried this, you could try contacting EJ at Jericho Beach Kayak (jerichobeachkayak.com/) and asking them what's worked for them. I know they run summer camps for kids with a fleet of Think Jets.

Thank you so much. Yes - I will reach out to him as I figure things out. Vancouver is a lovely place to paddle!

zach

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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1 month 1 week ago #40113 by zachhandler

I don't know the Splash but the Fenn Bonito would be a great alternative. My wife and children love theirs. Being short it is light and easy to handle off the water. The cockpit is a little too short for me at 5'9".
I heartily agree that putting a child in a boat that weighs 50lb and that they can hardly reach over the sides of is unkind.
My impression is that kids do better in a slightly wobbly boat than adults of similar ability. I think they will quickly master a Bonito. If you are concerned about stability it might be worth looking at the Spaceshifter www.soulwaterman.com/collections/kids-ka...roducts/spaceshifter

Thanks Hugh! the bonito would be the other more affordable kids ski. same price as the splash. I was leaning towards splash because at 2 feet longer I figured it would have better speed and support heavier taller kids. But I could be wrong and maybe smaller boats are better. I have a knysna sonicX. by 10 my daughter was out of leg length on the foot board. It was twitchier than ideal I thought for my kids, who maybe paddle only 6-8 times over the summer. Obviously I could be doing a better job motivating them and making those outings happen! but the other tricky thing is that no other kids around here surfski so the fun with friends thing is absent.

zach

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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1 month 1 week ago #40117 by Kayakintro

Kids learn very quick and have an excellent balance. My daughter at 11 was paddling the V7 without any trouble and now at 12 she paddles the Swordfish S. She prefers it to the V7 because it is narrower and lighter. She has no balance problem at all, can eat her snack on it etc
Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds like you get a lot of time on the water. How often does your daughter get out? just trying to get a frame of reference for skill and quick improvement. Paddling an hour a day in NZ sounds heavenly to me!
Hi Zach, sorry I missed your reply!
Now it is winter so she does not go out often at all but normally she is paddling her SUP every weekend.
She used to paddle intensively her first kayak, a Viking kayak Ozzie, about 3 times a week from January 2021 to April 2021 then it was a SUP for awhile. In November 2021 I got the V7 and she paddled it maybe 15 times and that includes 2h round trips. It didn’t take her long to adjust, she just kept forgetting there was a rudder ;-)
She paddled the Swordfish 9 times and it was just so easy despite the fact it wasn’t padded enough for her. No shake at all while I had some trouble even sitting in it! She can remount it 100% but it is not that easy with the high sides. She loves it but I still wonder if a surfski like a Bonito would be better for her. I don’t take her out if it’s very windy.
She’s 12 (birthday in March) and her height is 152cm/5 feet. Her weight is 51kg/112 pounds. It is noticeable she’s light in the Swordfish because she can turn it by 180 degrees with no effort.

Her second time in the V7 :

She was using her usual paddle because I didn’t want to confuse her with too many new things at the same time.

Some videos with the Swordfish :

She was on a SUP then wanted the Fenn, it was maybe her 3rd time.


Same story! Hence her inflatable life jacket. She swims very well.
I brought her paddle but she was fine with the Epic small mid.

It is difficult to use her as reference because she had some chemotherapy when she was younger and it damaged some nerves in her feet. She walks fast but she doesn’t really run. Sometimes some handicap forces people to enhance other abilities and I don’t know if in our daughter’s case it is an increased balance.

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1 month 1 week ago - 1 month 1 week ago #40118 by zachhandler
Kayakintro - thanks for the detailed response! You must be so proud of her. Speaking of growing up with messed up feet, have you heard of this guy named greg barton? Makes sense though. If her lower legs are not good at proprioception and balance, then everything above that level has had to compensate. I am impressed that she has taken to SUP.
Zach

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy
Last edit: 1 month 1 week ago by zachhandler.
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1 month 3 days ago - 1 month 3 days ago #40133 by slow

If you want to get some info from someone who's tried this, you could try contacting EJ at Jericho Beach Kayak (jerichobeachkayak.com/) and asking them what's worked for them. I know they run summer camps for kids with a fleet of Think Jets.
Thank you so much. Yes - I will reach out to him as I figure things out. Vancouver is a lovely place to paddle!
zach
I was down by JBK today and happened to run into EJ, so I asked them about this and their comment was that kids are usually stable in Think Jets due to their height and weight and can usually handle them with no prior experience. They usually try to put kids on a kayak for an hour before putting them in a ski so that kids who don't have any experience being on or in the water get acclimated, but if they have kids who are comfortable in the water, they'll just put them into Think Jets. They actually just had a class with some kids who were on a swim team and put them directly into Jets because the kids were already comfortable being in the water and everybody handled it fine.
Last edit: 1 month 3 days ago by slow.

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1 month 3 days ago #40136 by zachhandler
Slow - that is super helpful! Thank you so much!

Zach

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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