New Epic V11

I have been looking at getting a new ski for a while now and have struggling to decide between a V10 or V12. I have read every article on balance vs speed vs ability I can get my hands on and still can't decide.

So imagine how happy was I when I saw Epic had released a new V11 - my perfect ski! However reading up a bit more I realize it may not be the case - at a first glance it looked almost like a V12 Light but then more reading shows it capacity is up to 120kg's.

Its obviously a lot shorter which I think is great - I assume that means it turns quicker which is good for a lot of the races I do that have lots of turns. But how does that impact speed? Where does it fit on the great Epic speed chart?

Its the same width as the V12 so how does it compare in terms of stability? How does length impact stability?

How does the different length and volume impact its performance in the open ocean? Is it better or worse?

So many questions but few answers - its almost like Epic is taunting me with its lack of information!

I owned the new v12. It requires elite level balance for use in the ocean. The v11, which seems to be the same hull but shorter, should therefore be slightly tippier.

The thing about the v11 and v12 is that they will both be slow as hell in the ocean if your balance is not close to elite level. I can't stress that enough.

The v10 is a very different boat. It has a stability profile that is much friendlier to intermediate and even advanced paddlers. The only consistent complaint I hear about the v10 is that if you are very skinny you will have to pad the bucket in from the sides.

I think that with elite skis (v11, v12, v14, fenn elite, uno max, nelo 560, etc) if you are unsure if they will be too tippy for you then the answer is yes, they will be too tippy for you. A boat that is too tippy is slow and no fun.

Hope that helps.

What other skis have you tried and how did you find the stability of those models?

I has seen some pics of the V12M soon after the gorge race. I immediately called the Epic-Stellar dealer in Houston and ordered one. I was told it would be a later September or October delivery. If the V11 has similar stability to the Nelo 560 I will be very pleased. The V11 being 7" longer and 1/2" narrower I suspect will be slightly tippier.
After paddling the Nelo 560 for over an hour last week I was pleasantly surprised at how stable it was. It's almost as stable as my SEI, and more stable than my Vadja Next 43.
I cannot wait to get the V11!

I currently paddle an early model V12 which is great directly into the wind or with the wind - however throw in a bit of side chop or if the swell and wind are going in different directions I feel myself starting to put more energy into staying upright than I would like.

Hence as I start to do more open ocean paddling I am thinking about getting something more stable. I am talking about stability in windy choppy conditions so would a shorter V11 get pushed around less and make it feel more stable?

How much more stable is a V12 Gen2 compared to an earlier model?

I have paddled a friends Uno Max and when choppy it seems to sit quite solidly in the water and hold its line - not sure if the lower volume nose of the V12 Gen 2 will have the same impact.

My own experience is that new v12 is tippier than old. I paddle an old v12 and find it rock solid in confused chop. I can paddle it with my eyes closed in any conditions it seems. The new v12 took noticibly more concentration in confused slop. Downwind it was rock solid, but in confused haystacks I found myself distracted enough by balance that I had a harder time reading and following a line through the slop. That is my experience. I would place it's stability in slop as intermediate between old v12 and v14. But that is just my experience. I would be curious to hear from others. Obviously every ones butt and brain are different and not all people will put boats in the same order when ranking by stability.

Cerca trova - i am curious if you tested the 560 on the flat or in waves? I find it easy to paddle on the flat but much less stable in confused water.

There is some commentary on the Epic FB page from Greg Barton in reference to the naming of the ski, in which he says words to the effect of V11 being the appropriate name according to how it's characteristics compare to the other skis in the Epic range. I was left wondering whether that's primarily an indication of it's speed, or it's stability. Given it's the same width as the V12 you'd expect similar stability. So does the V11 label indicate it's not as fast?

Just chatted with Jasper Mocke about the V11. As an Epic paddler of course, you'd expect him to be enthusiastic - and he was.

It's definitely an elite-level boat, he said. He paddled the prototype at the Gorge.

He'll be getting his hands on one when the next Epic container arrives in SA (don't know when that is), and will be testing it in all conditions - all on flat water on the lake, big Miller's Downwinds and round the cans races in summer.

I asked him if the elite paddlers would start to take multiple skis to races - and he said that that is already happening to a degree, he'd use a V14 in some conditions, a V12 in others. He expects the V11 to be particularly good for round-the-cans racing like the Seadog Series here in Cape Town.

And here's some video of the boat at the Gorge:

Thanks Zach - Im surprised that you find the new v12 less stable than the old one in confused slop - all of the marketing material talks about it being more stable.

Thanks Rob - a lot of the racing we do around here have lots of turns which make a shorter boat pretty appealing. I also imagine that it would make catching waves with a short wave length easier and have you would have more control with less of the tail out of the water.

Will be very interesting to see some feedback after the first deliveries are made. Here in NZ there will be 3 arriving mid/late November (Nelson, Christchurch and Auckland from memory).

Would like to see some pictures lined up to some other well known / popular skis for a visual comparison. The Epic site is pretty good with the standardisation of their product shots to be fair but would be great to see something 'real'. Guess we will have to wait ...

Some bits starting to emerge on the interwebs as boats are being delivered ...

These folk in Sydney have some pictures and initial (positive) thoughts:
www.facebook.com/rushcuttersbaypaddlesports/

I now have the V11 in my hands here in Bellingham, USA and have extensive race and downwind experience with V12 (1G & 2G), V10 and V14.

First impression of the V11:
- Noticeably lighter (23 lbs)
- Superb responsiveness and a very playfull / fun ski, loves to turn.
- Seat is very comfortable!
- Leg hump is slightly smaller than the new V12
- Bucket is not as deep as the new V12, but super comfortable.
- An excellent choice for shorter / smaller advanced and elite paddlers who focus on downwind
- Very, very close in speed to the V12

The new V12 / V11 vs old V12:
- Totally different intention for the ski: The old V12 was an all purpose, high volume elite ski with remarkable secondary stability (I have one that I converted for touring and just love it). The new V12 is a downwind specific ski loves to turn and can hang in capable hands against a V14 in flatwater.
- The round profile of the new V12 sits very firmly in downwind situations. A lot less upward "bouncing" energy compared the V10 that has a much flatter bottom (the V10 is also an all purpose ski).

Hope that helps,

-Cryder

fasterfarther.com

Thanks Cryder,

Interested to know your thoughts on stability between those boats in confused water conditions? A lot of the water we paddle around here has swell, chop and current all going in different directions.

I was all decided on going for more stability and about to buy a V10 but then someone suggested I lengthen my leg length and its made a world of difference to my stability. So now I am back to being undecided.

Jonno, go the more stable option - I spent 12 months in a V12 G1 and went no-where, very limiting for me an intermediate/advanced paddler, not elite. Dropped back to V10 Gen2, improved, could manage any type of conditions and enjoy myself. Now actually paddle a Stellar SEL Gen2, lower volume in the nose, not affected so much by side chop. Spent a week in a Fenn Elite S, that's a good alternative too. Vajda NEXT and Nelo 560 could be in your stability bracket too. Get ya bum into as many options as you can and make sure you paddle all of them in confused water. Goodluck. Matt

@Jonno: Where abouts are you ? I'll have a V11 in Auckland in November when they arrive.

Any thoughts on the V11 from anyone with experience on the water yet?

I got mine on Friday and have done a grand total of 5km of incredibly tired and quite hungover paddling ... points I'd be confident in making at this point as below (in the context of coming from a Stellar SES and being 169cm tall and about 78kg at the moment):
- Goes upwind very nicely. Quite a smooth ride, it felt to just go about its business
- I'd say slightly less primary stability than the SES but easily adjusted to
- Seemed to be affected by the water less than the SES, so even though there felt to be a little less primary stability you didn't rely on it as much

Hard to comment much more than that at this stage due to my fragile state and short paddle

Very nice ski. Paddled it a few times and was very apprehensive as my usual ride is a V10 Sport. What was interesting was that every time I paddled it it seemed to get more stable for me.
So much faster than the Sport but even against my usual foe on the water with much less effort. Turns on a dime with a small rudder ( non standard VMG rudder I fitted).

Thanks for the comparison. My usual ski is a Sport as well. I never considered the V11 to be anywhere near my wheelhouse. I was kinda hoping for redone Sport or V10 with similar characteristics.