Cape Point Challenge Training

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11 years 5 months ago #17038 by CoastPop
I am toying with entering the Cape Point Challenge in December :woohoo: However, I have only been paddling socially for about 18 months and am still pretty mediocre. I am wanting to up the ante during winter, June - August, concentrating on laying down a base and working on core strength (gym) and technique. My intention then is to start a 12 week program from mid September, building on the base established in winter. My aim is firstly to qualify in the 35km qualifying paddles which start sometime in October? and then go on to the CPC itself. I have browsed the we for training schedules and they seem to be geared to the performance athlete 6 days a week with morning and afternoon sessions. I am just wanting to complete the event for heavens sake :( Any suggestions on a training program that is geared towards a novice CPC paddler? I should add that I am a reasonably fit old guy.

PS if the worst comes to the worst and I don't make it, at least I will have got fitter and enjoyed plenty paddling sessions.

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11 years 5 months ago #17051 by nell
Since noone answered, I'll offer my 2 cents . . .

Most important will be simply extending your endurance capacity. Second important will be increasing your speed and power. Since you're not a die-hard racer we won't worry about preparing you for a high level anaerobic effort or peaking you and minimal "red zone" time should minimize the risk of overtraining.

A 1x per week long paddle will give you the most bang for your buck. Start with a 2 hr paddle at medium pace and extend it about 20-30 min each week so that a 4 hr paddle comes easily, then keep up with that 1x per week 3-5 hr medium pace session until a couple or three weeks before CPC. While I suggest only consuming water during these long paddles, take along emergency gu and your choice of sugar water "just in case." The idea with these is that you want work your way up to and then through your bonk while consuming only water. In time, you'll adapt to this stressor and your bonk should get pushed back in time or simply become very minor.

Add in some interval sessions twice per week with one of the sessions being very short max effort sprints - something like 30 strokes counting both sides, about 1 min 40 sec recovery and x 10 working your way up to about 30. This will help with specific power. If you need more rest time in between, take it.

Every other week, alternate between doing something like 9 min "on" and 1 min "off" and do these at a pace that you would do in a one hour race. Start with 3 and work your way up to 4-7 or so. These are not max efforts, only about 85-90% efforts.

The other every-other-week interval you might want to consider is doing a few max effort 2 min or 4 min intervals with full recovery x 2-6 total.

As a masters athlete you'll recover more slowly, but 3-4 quality sessions of 6-9 total paddling hours per week should be good enough for you to progress to where you'd like to be. Add in some running or cycling if you're still looking for something to do. While weight work in the gym is generally a good thing, time on the water, and some running or jogging will likely help you more in the near term.
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11 years 5 months ago #17057 by [email protected]
Hey Coastpop - where do you paddle?

Pete Cole will be running training squads on sandvlei; but Nikki Mocke runs more relaxed training squads for a bunch of old guys like us at Fish Hoek.

The drill really is - paddle during the week, doing whatever you can in the way of sprints, technique and so on. Do a time trial if you can. But the really important paddle is the one on the weekend where you long and slow. You need to start at about 15km and build it up over time to 35km or so.

Give me a shout on 0827845673.

I'm going to do the race on my double this year but I'm hideously unfit at the moment and will be building up between now and the start of the racing season.

Rob
Currently Epic V10 Elite, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Swordfish S, Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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11 years 5 months ago #17058 by CoastPop
Thanks Rob. I regularly paddle at Fish Hoek on Saturdays, but the last organised session is next Saturday and I am wanting to build up a good base before the new season starts. My current plan is as follows (I hope I can stick to it):

Mon - Rest
Tue - Time Trial 10km
Wed - Gym or nothing
Thu - Intervals
Fri - Rest
Sat - Long slow distance, currently doing about 10-12km, but increasing every week
Sun - Nice fun,easy paddle with wife & mates else clock up brownie points

Then up the Ante in September

Sound ok?

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11 years 5 months ago #17059 by CoastPop
Hi Rob, forgot to mention that I live in the Northern Suburbs, so Zandvlei not an option. Mid week I paddle at Century City.

Geez, if you think you are are unfit then I am in serious trouble.

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11 years 5 months ago - 11 years 5 months ago #17066 by Kayaker Greg

CoastPop wrote: Thanks Rob. I regularly paddle at Fish Hoek on Saturdays, but the last organised session is next Saturday and I am wanting to build up a good base before the new season starts. My current plan is as follows (I hope I can stick to it):

Mon - Rest
Tue - Time Trial 10km
Wed - Gym or nothing
Thu - Intervals
Fri - Rest
Sat - Long slow distance, currently doing about 10-12km, but increasing every week
Sun - Nice fun,easy paddle with wife & mates else clock up brownie points

Then up the Ante in September

Sound ok?


I think you really need to be fully recovered to do your intervals and a 10km time trial so I would change it around to something like this.

Monday rest, day off all training
Tues Intervals
Wed rest or something off the water
Thurs 10-12+ LSD
Fri rest or something off the water
Sat 10km time trial
Sun Longer LSD

With the way you have it structured you may not be fully recovered after your 10km time trial to get the most out of your intervals, change it around for maximum recovery between hard sessions. You could change the 10km time trial and the interval session around if you wanted to.
Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Kayaker Greg.
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11 years 5 months ago #17075 by [email protected]

I think you really need to be fully recovered to do your intervals and a 10km time trial


Yep, I agree... The key for old guys like us is to allow sufficient time for recovery. You might want to invest in some recovery drink to take after paddling too - nutrition plays a big role too.

Rob
Currently Epic V10 Elite, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Swordfish S, Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
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11 years 5 months ago #17084 by CoastPop
Thanks Rob - Recovery drink = Jameson? :laugh:

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11 years 4 months ago - 11 years 4 months ago #17414 by jocuba
Nell... thanks a lot for this. Superb advice.

I have my own related specific question which I've been wanting to post for some time. I'd most appreciate your input, if possible, so I'll put it here.

It relates to my current position.
Basically - 48 yo solid skipaddler from years gone by, mid-packer & happy with that. All I want is some advice to optimise my paddling fitness to enjoy ski races & downwind paddling given my current situation/position (various reasons... family, work etc).

It is as follows:
1. I can't paddle during the week. Only gym options available. What I do is 2 x 1hr heavy spinning sessions on Monday & Wednesday evenings for cardio/aerobic benefit. Half hour break stretching etc then follow with 1hr general moderate basic weights sessions on same days... squats, lunges, upper body etc.
2. Paddle 20 k's or so on a river, lsd, early on Saturday & Sunday mornings generally. (Don't ask why... I don't know!?)

I started this about 6/8 weeks before my first 20k race after about a 7+ year complete layoff from paddling. The race went well & I finished surprisingly with gas in the tank. Subsequently done 3 x 20k races interspersed by 2 week gaps; maintaining this exercise program (if you can call it that).

This was just my own idea, just badly wanting to get back on the water, paddle a ski again & have some fun. Anyway it sort of seems to work (very surprisingly!!)

My question, after all that blurb, is can you/anyone offer advice on how I can optimise my weekly training - ski paddling focused - given my constraints?. I.e gym type stuff during the week, flatwater on the weekends... then hit the coast for the races (as my reward & hilight of my mission). By the way I live in london,uk if that puts things into perspective.
Last edit: 11 years 4 months ago by jocuba. Reason: correction

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11 years 4 months ago #17435 by nell
Jocuba, - only paddling on weekends is a fairly big hurdle, but nothing that you shouldn't be able to work around.

If it were me, I'd do some running, cycling, rowing machine, etc during the week as the main focus to keep good cardiovascular fitness, and for that I'd probably do one tempo (race pace) session and maybe some middle distance LSD work if you can cope with the boredom.

I have found that while I like to lift weights, I don't really think that it gives much bang for the buck for a master's age marathon paddler with time constraints, so while I would still do basic weight work and squats, etc, I wouldn't rely on it alone during the week so I'd probably alternate weights days with the running, rowing erg/kayak erg, or bike.

On the weekends, I'd probably do your higher intensity session on saturday and your LSD session on Sunday as the other way around might compromise your intensity session. For the intensity session, I'd probably keep it simple and do 2 to 4 min max effort intervals, building up to 4 x 4 min or 6 x 2 min, keeping the in-between rests longer early in the season and shorter (2-4 min) during and entering the racing season. And, I'd alternate between those and longer race pace intervals - I like 9 minutes on and 1 minute rest x 4-7 . So, one weekend you do the 2-4 min intervals on saturday and the next weekend you do the 9 minute race pace intervals on saturday.

On Sunday, I'd do an LSD paddle of 3-5 hours and only drink water as needed (no sugar, but bring gu's along for emergency).

You could do a bit more than others on the weekends because you've got all week to recover, too.
Erik
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11 years 4 months ago #17457 by jocuba
Erik - sincerely appreciate your input & advice. The w/end paddling aspect is clear to me & I look forward to implementing it.
Just a query on the 'high intensity' session - if i read it correctly... you're suggesting a 45 to 75 minutes session? (after a 10 minute or so warmup I'd assume) Whats your take on warm-down - any benefit in 20/30 minutes of sustained slow/moderate pace to wind down.

While I've got your attention, if I may ask... can you be more specific with a suggested gym oriented programme during the week. My budget is about 5 hours max.
So I currently do 2 * 1hr hard sessions of spinning class (Stationery cycling) which I presume ticks the cardio box.
Leaves 2/3 hrs for gym type training i.e. 2 x 1/1.5hr sessions.

1. Can you suggest a blueprint programme to optimise a 1/1.5 hr gym session (no canoe ergo, everything else available) - if you have it at your fingertips?
2. Another point - which is more beneficial?... train 2 days/week - 2/2.5 hrs session, combine cardio & gym - with say 3 rest days [as I'm currently doing]?
or... 4 days/week 1/1.5hr session with 1 day break; obviously cardio 1 day, gym the next?

From my point of view I quite enjoy 2 heavy sessions with 3 days rest; i.e. don't feel so stale, proper recovery & damn convenient.

As I said - what I've been doing so far on gut feel gets me through a 20k ski race reasonably comfortably as a recreational ski racer. But would most appreciate advice on optimising my program from those in the know or similiar position.

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11 years 4 months ago #17475 by nell
Jocuba - keep in mind that I'm not a seasoned coach or anything, just someone who's trained in multiple sports for 35 yrs and kept my eyes and ears open . . .

Most important, is that you can set a schedule that you like and that you can complete, and it sounds like you're doing just that. Two days vs four days . . . I don't think it matters all that much during the week while doing non-paddling exercise. Two good solid hours of high heart rate intervals or sustained pace cardio during the week on the bike or the rowing erg or running would be good - maybe two sessions in the off season and one during the racing season.

I don't have a gym schedule at my finger tips, but since weight work isn't that specific for marathon paddling, I'd stick with the basics of bench press, pull-up / lat pull downs, cable rows, squats, maybe military presses if your shoulders are ok. I can't give you details on reps, sets, % of max to lift, etc but that info can be found many places.

The important things to remember are to enter the saturday intensity paddle relatively fresh, so don't do weights or high intensity cardio the day before.

Also, in the previous post, I should have suggested that in the off season, I would keep the LSD session and then make saturday's session 20 + very short sprints - 15 to 25 seconds or so - at max effort with a nice 1 min 30 sec or so rest. This will help build specific strength. I'd probably try to add this on to an abbreviated 2 min sprint session (maybe 2 x 2') or to a shortened 9 min interval session of one or 2 x 9'.

I think that 90% of training properly as a masters paddler is just getting in the time on the water. The details are probably less important. You do want to try to avoid overtraining by spending limited paddling time in high lactate states in the off-season and early in the season but include them in the in-season (high lactate states would be doing the 9 min intervals 2x per week or by doing max effort 2-4 min sprints with limited rest in-between - in short, too much intensity with too little rest during the session and during the week.

To answer your question re the high intensity session, I like doing a 20 min warmup, 5 or 6 x 9 min at race pace with one minute rest, then a 5 or 10 min cooldown - so, that's about 80 or 90 minutes. I'm not a fan of a long cooldown for no particular reason, but I do like a 20-30 min warm up time.
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11 years 4 months ago #17476 by Spudnut72
I am no expert (just a regular paddler who gets out on the water two to three times a week), but the best non paddling activity I have found is a couple of sessions a week on the Kettlebells. I have lost over eight kilos in the last six months, have increased my core strength and my paddling speed and endurance has gotten a lot better.
The great thing about the kettlebells is that you don't need to commit to a long gym session - forty minutes in the back yard or down in the shed is enough to get your heart rate up and build good functional strength. There is plenty of info on youtube and any good personal trainer should be able to design a paddling specific workout for you.
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11 years 4 months ago - 11 years 4 months ago #17489 by jocuba
Erik - just zoning in a bit on the gym aspect...
I'm particularly interested in your advice on the subject of incorporating & utilisng a rowing ergo in a gym session (the weights I understand)?

Obviously, its about getting max effectiveness from the session in terms of contributing to paddling improvement. I take your point on not focusing too much on the weights aspect - thanks for that. You seem to imply that the ergo would deliver most benefit - if I read it correctly. Can you elaborate?

So - how would you basically approach a 1/1.5hr gym session, in my position.
1. What would you focus on?
2. How much proportion of time committed to ergo vs weights (if any)?
3. How would you use ergo intelligently/most effectively i.e. first part of session, second or throughout?
4. Approach - High intensity stuff, interval type training, sustained duration or bit of both?

Not asking for minutiae detail - just some ideas on general structure, where the emphasis should be & your opinion of a balanced approach & intelligent, purposeful utilisation of limited time?

I will leave it there - appreciate your input.
Last edit: 11 years 4 months ago by jocuba. Reason: corrections

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11 years 4 months ago #17492 by sAsLEX

jocuba wrote: Erik - just zoning in a bit on the gym aspect...
I'm particularly interested in your advice on the subject of incorporating & utilisng a rowing ergo in a gym session (the weights I understand)?


In your previous post you mentioned weights and stretching.

One thing I have found quite benifical is the use of calisthenics and the structured increasing/decreasing of leverage to maintain progress and increase overall strength. The books by Al Kavadlo and Paul Wade (Convict Conditioning) are good references and guides to this type of exercise.

Doing this removes the need to go to a gym and I find the exercise works both strength and flexibility.
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11 years 4 months ago #17494 by nell
To answer your questions,
1. What would I focus on? - I'd think of it this way: you plan on paddling two days per week but still want to focus on improving your paddling . . With this limitation, I would think about the Mon -Fri days primarily as well-rounded cross-training that supports but does not interfere with your paddling. So, I would focus on staying with a general fitness routine and allow the specifics to change over the weeks and months throughout the year, mostly to stave off boredom and overtraining. During the paddling racing season, I'd stick with aerobic sessions on the ergs during the week and during the off season I'd maybe do one or two good high intensity sessions on the erg per week (by "erg" I'm referring to the rowing, cycling ergs and running). I'd probably do similar high intensity sessions on the ergs as I do while paddling, and to recap those, there's really three types of high intensity sessions, 1- very short max effort bursts of 10-30 sec or so, 2 - max VO2 type intervals of 2-4 minutes at max effort, and 3 - 10k / marathon pace efforts of 7-20+ minutes. But, there's lots of variations like ladders and such that are neither better nor worse, just minor variations to add variety.

2. time on ergs vs weights? Hard to give a general answer here but Mon - Fri assuming 5 hrs of training, I'd probably do 3 hrs of cardio / erg work and 2 hrs of weight work.

3. order? It's probably less important than you think because this is cross-training and you're not really interested in doing top quality erg workouts so I think it'd be fine to start the cardio session a bit fatigued from weights every now and then.

4. . . answered in question one. In summary, you can only recover from a finite amount of high intensity work during the week. So in paddling racing season, I'd do mostly sustained duration or light intervals on the Mon-Fri gym sessions so that you remain fresh for the weekend's races or paddling training. The converse would be true during the paddling off-season where two high intensity interval sessions during the Mon-Fri week rowing, cycling, or running will act to keep your fitness and weight where you like and you're not worried about being at peak performance on the weekend.

Stephen Seiler PhD, whom I respect considerably, gave his advice to masters paddlers in a paper a few years back. In short, his advice was thus:

from Seiler: two interval sessions per week. one with 6-9 min intervals at 85-95%
intensity and 3-5 min rest, the other with 2 min intervals with 90
sec rest x 3 x 2 with 5 min rest between sets. (so one interval day at 10k race pace and the other day of max VO2 intervals) But, most of the time is still spent doing easier pace aerobic sustained effort work.

What I do differently is I shorten the rest between the long intervals during our racing season, and I alternate shorter 20 sec intervals with the max VO2 intervals on a weekly basis only because I'm no longer lifting weights (neck injury), and I'm worried that too much max VO2 work will peak me and overtrain me at my age and I'd rather be fresher and a bit undertrained than peaked but somewhat fragile.

Cheers, Erik
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11 years 4 months ago #17518 by jocuba
Erik - I've only just established exactly who you are. You probably don't want the recognition but I'm very grateful for your attention & advice, and taking the time out to respond to an 'ordinary' paddler. I've read all your articles (or most of them) over several years &, in all truth, have thought a number of times - that you would be the ideal person to discuss these points with that I've raised. Could hardly believe it.

Great writing, excellent articles & keep up the great work... you have a bigger audience than I think you might realise. It was through reading some of your stuff that inspired me to get back on the water after 7+ years away. I reckon there are a lot of paddlers (plenty of of ex-paddlers) in my position who, at some stage in their lives, land up only being able to get into a boat on the w/end. & most of them end up giving up & letting go of a special past-time & skill unnecessarily. Well - I've proved that its quite feasible & doable - 2 longish sessions on the water on the w/end & 2 longish sessions in the gym during the week & you're good to go; at least for 20k or so races.

Thanks again & you might want to pen a training related article focused on this kind of paddler in due course. I'm sure it would prove very popular. There is not much advice out there for someone who can only get on the water on w/ends & gym, at best, during the week. (i.e. doesn't have access to specialised kit like kayak ergo etc.)

Respect! Might catch up with you at a prime event in due course.

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