Re: Red7 Surf 70 or Epic V10

If I get a carbon Kevlar (surf70 pro), do you think this will be as rigid as the standard glass construction?

Mark

Usually the carbon/kevlar skis are more rigid (stiff) than glass boats. We've been intending to do some stiffness tests - deflection of skis loaded with 20kg with supports 5m apart... so much to do!

On the subject of carbon vs glass

I have a Carbon/Kevlar Huki S1-R. They are fragile out of the water! Great care has to be taken in handling, roof racking etc. Mine got minor damage on delivery by the container shipping company (Allison shipping - don't use them!).

In the water they are stiff, light and will take a real pounding, but don't hit anything harder than water or they will chip/crack/break!

So if carbon is easily punctured and carbon kevlar fragile out of the water, what other choice is available then? Im kinda convinced on the v10 ultra being rigid enough for training. Its just the price tag that bothers me.

MFB unless you are paddling in conditions where you are likely to hit hard stuff i.e. river, shallow reefs, rocky beaches, then carbon and/or kevlar is the biz. There is no other way you can get a 22lb ski!

Unless you really hit something *really* hard out of the water, it will be hard to structuraly hurt a ski. Plus, kevlar and carbon should be stronger in and out of the water. Kevlar is meant to give a little when you hit something, and carbon is stronger than glass for the weight.

If the boat is going to get damaged out of the water, it will almost always be the gelcoat or some other cosmetic (not structural) problem, and that will be the same no matter if it is kevlar, carbon, or glass.

Depending on the layup, of course, but a kevlar carbon boat will be really strong. I am an ex whitewater racer and I have bounced kevlar and carbon boats (that I have made myself) off of rocks that have made me sure that I would start sinking at any second, and have been just fine despite a small cosmetic blemmish.

Even if I knew that I was going to be hitting a lot of rocks and being really hard on the boat, I would get a heavy kevlar carbon lay up instead of glass. Carbon and glass have very similar properties, but carbon is lighter for the same strength, and Kevlar is made to take those types of hits!

I would get the lightest boat that you can afford, just make sure it is vacuum bagged, and be careful with it!

In reference specifically to the V10 Ultra layup, the hull is extremely susceptible to mild contact to hard objects. I had love-tapped the corner of my house where the impact barely made a sound, and the result was a 1.25" diameter depression 3/16" deep. It occured in a more or less non-structural section of the bow, and was a big wake up call. Still, I love this boat and have no interest in the other layups. These are allout racing boats and need to be handled with forethought and care. Its a characteristic to be mindful of, and not neccesarily something to be worried about.

Thanks for all your comments. Now Im more confused than ever. hehehehe

Have you guys ever heard of a V10 Economy model? Im sure I saw that in one of the sites.

One thing I can say about the Epic V10 is that they have upped the bar considerably in terms of build quality in the area of precision mold work, and in eliminating post-mold deformation. I have never seen any other ski with the symmetry and smooth straight ripple-less lines of the V10s. These boats look like a professionally built top-dollar competition boat is supposed to look. My particular boat had a couple of areas on the upper starboard side of the hull where the bulkheads have pushed out ever so slightly, but you have to view the hull in the right light and squint your eyes to see it. I find that having the perfectly formed bow section in view when slowly heading out on a paddle, to be a very satisfying experience.