Rudder lines

Will someone please tell me the correct diameter for replacemant Dyneema/Spectra rudder lines? It's difficult to tell when the existing ones are chewed up, stretched, fluffed up and worn out. Also is it best to get stripped core, or with outer casing? Thanks.

John , from what I have seen there are two kinds of Dyneema/spectra lines used for rudder lines. Epic uses a braided line w/o a sheath. Think uses a line called "Qpowerline" spectra which has a core and a very tightly braided sheath. I have had two think boats and the "Qpowerline" is great , no stretch and very durable. This line is kinda hard to find , parasailers use it for kite and control lines and spear fisherman use it for reel lines. I believe the diameter is 2mm. The stuff ain't cheap and you need to buy it in spools , smallest I have found is 180'. I just got a new ski in January (Huki S1-XL) , it currently has a very nice and easy to adjust rudder line set up made with stainless cable. When it is time to replace the inevitably corroded cable and or crimps/fittings I am planning to do so with Qpower.

Any decent kayak/surf ski shop should be able to sell you the Qpowerline by the metre.

For the past few years, when replacing rudder lines before each season, I have been using 7/64th (2.7781mm) Amsteel Blue as my rudder line in my Epics.

Based on the fact that it is slightly over-sized as compared to the stock lines I would say that the stock lines would probably be between 2 and 2.5mm in metric

Also, because the Amsteel Blue line is thicker than the standard Epic line and requires a specific technique to install it as well as a very slight enlarging of the holes in the rudder pedals.

I also changed the stock rudder pedal shafts with 8 inch polish ground shafts of stainless steel. In my V8 the stock shaft was rough fiberglass that were wearing out my pedals and on my V10 Sport the shaft was smoother, but I still chose to replace my pedals and go with the polished stainless for a stronger less abrasive set up.

For those in the U.S. with 2011/2012 Epics that may wish to upgrade the rudder pedal shafts to smoother, polished stainless steel, you can get them the exact size at McMaster.com at this page.

7/32 x 8 inch Stainless Steel Rudder Pedal Shaft

part number 1263K167

Does anyone know how you source or make one of those stainless steel rudder lines that have the small balls near the pedal attachments - the type that Huki uses? I prefer SS lines but would like to keep some adjustability.

Nell, another option you can do is make a hybrid line, where the entire line from the front of the rudder line tube, to the rudder, is stainless steel and the rest of the line that runs through the cockpit and rudder pedals is the Dyneema/Spectra type line.

You can do this by crimping a loop into the end of the SS line about four to six inches (100 to 175 mm?) past where it comes into the cockpit and then attach the Dyneema/Spectra line by making a loop in the end of it and attaching the two loops between the SS and Dyeema together.

I have done this is some of my older boats and it works out real well.

You get the immediate response of the SS, and maintain the adjustability of the Dyneema/ Spectra type lines.

I used to cover the loops with shrink wrap to give a nice neat and smooth appearance.

I switched out the Dynaleen line to Q Power in one of my boats, and there was a small improvement in steering precision. It felt like there was less give to the line; it's also great stuff for tethering things like leash attachments, etc., as it's so small in diameter, and doesn't work it's way loose like most braided lines-it's more like waxed wire in its ability to retain a knot. I sourced mine in a small spool from a kite board/parasailing supply company. It also comes in colors, for the aesthetically-inclined.

Custom Kayaks have used the hybrid line technique, and I agree, it works well. The steering precision in my Synergy Lite was excellent. The Hukis are unparalleled for their steering, IMO. The braided stainless gives not one wit. Jude sells separate crimp on balls so you can fine tune positions, or, I imagine, make your own lines. The biggest challenge would be, I imagine, finding a suitable anchor point on the foot pedal itself. Fen solves this with the little allen key stops-if you go this route and can find them, buy some spares. Alternately, Doug Bushnell at West Side Boat Shop uses allen key set collars from electrical applications to do same. Thread two on per cable, and you should be golden.

Another thing that Jude at Huki does is provide multiple tie positions on the steering/rudder shaft yoke itself, to increase/decrease input on the foot pedals. I really don't know why manufacturers don't do this; it's easy enough to provide a few drill holes with a plastic grommet to prevent the line from sawing on the metal edge, while allowing for fine-tuning your steering feedback. Closer anchor positions to the rudder shaft makes for faster response-the farther away from the shaft, the slower the response. This might be helpful for boats that have slacker foot plate angles, requiring you to 'toe forward' to actuate any kind of throw on the pedal itself. When I owned my Westside EFT with understern rudder and Onno foot pedal combination, swapping the larger diameter rudder wheel with a smaller K-1 wheel reduced the cable travel and quickened the steering actuation for a given amount of pedal travel. Same idea. Careful, though-too sensitive and it's easy for the rudder to stall-experimenting to find the sweet spot is recommended.

Thanks for the info. I briefly had combo SS plus spectra cables on my ski a year ago, and while it was better, I still preferred the all SS cable which had amazingly positive feel. I might look into the crimp-on balls thing.

Well this has generated some really interesting and useful info, for which thanks guys. I haven't been able to source Q-powerline in the UK, so have ordered some 2.5 mm Dyneema on eBay for my newly acquired, used Zedtech Dominator. Have had a Fenn and liked the positive feel of stainless, might switch if the Dyneema is too soggy.
Nell, is this the ball type of adjuster stop thingy? www.tecni-cable.co.uk/TECNI-GRIP-Type-15-Ball-160-018-015

Ah, sorry Nell, I just realised you referred to crimp-on balls. These push-adjust things look promising to me: no-tool adjustment.

Something like this will work just fine if you have stainless lines (the metal set screw piece only-I'd probably double them up...):
www.grainger.com/Grainger/IDEAL-Wire-Con...m9P:20130610225535:s

Alternately, the crimp on balls are here:
www.huki.com/store/index.php?main_page=p...h=13&products_id=114

Not sure about shipping across the pond, but might be worth a shot or even to try to source it out based on the photos in your area.

Thanks, man. I looked through the Huki site but missed em. Erik

Nell-here you can buy the stainless steel fittings you need www.savacable.com/pages/prod_02_04.html
They may have a rep close to you as well who would help with a crimper. Otherwise a T&B crimper works fine.
J.

While I'd like to keep some micro-adjustability, the convenient thing about nonadjustable SS cables is that others can't borrow your ski

I replaced the SS cables on my previous ski with rudder specific line and used some Cam Cleats attached to the pedals.

I used one rivet to attach to the pedal, with the other attachment hole covering the rudder line pedal entry, so the rudder line came through the pedal and cleat. This also meant the force on the rivet was minimal.

I had this for around 4 years and I had no issue with the lines coming loose.

Hey Rich could you post some pics? Cheers.

Hey Nell, Off topic - Sorry. Its June - Did you get (my) carbon V10?

Sure did and it's brilliant. Don't fret, though. I ordered it back in November.

When you get yours, you'll see - it'll have been worth the wait.
Erik

Watto wrote: Hey Rich could you post some pics? Cheers.

Unfortunately I sold the ski a year ago and didn't take any pictures.
I hope this diagram helps

That arrangement would sure make it simple and quick to adjust the lines.