Winter/Cold Water Apparel

I am in the US pacific northwest and paddle on lakes east of the cascades and the Columbia. I have paddled thru the winter in an 18X with a dry suit, but I would like to use my ski as much as possible this winter.

With water temps near freezing and cold air (25-35F) too, what are people using for year-round apparel. I am using Hydro Skin (.05mm) top and bottom with water temps into the 50 F range, but I wonder if I should get a farmer john (2.5 -3.0mm) or just use the dry suit. The dry suit is hot and limits movement a bit.

I do have good gloves and a nice Kotatat balaclava.

Advice?

I have used in the past in my little TK's, wetsuit booties, dry gloves and importantly drip rings on the paddle.

If really cold, then I had some triathlon wetsuits in either short leg or long leg that I used. A long sleeve lycra shirt underneath the wetsuits sorted any sort of chafing potential. I used to have a cycling track racing shirt that was my favourite. Tight with no pockets or anything.

This setup was good down to about -6 C.
My wetsuits were all 5mm.

Sort of cool carefully stepping of the edge of the lake and carefully getting into the boat and watching the ice layer on top of the water break around the bow as you pull away.
Sometimes a mist would form above the water just below eye level and you would paddle along with a layer of cloud broken only by the swirling around the paddle that was just magical.

The dry gloves when I first got them were almost surreal.
They looked like wetsuit type stuff, but when you put your hand in the water it stayed completely dry and warm. weird at first.
The only down side is that they were a bit slippery on the paddle shaft.
Probably taught me more about a careful catch than anything else in the world could do.
Nothing like the threat of a swim in freezing water to keep you on your toes.

Tom, most important IMO, would be to stay close to shore when the air and water are that cold - at least close to water that you can stand up in. That would be primary for safety. If you want to paddle for a workout and get all hot and sweaty and such, stay with the hydoskin long pants and socks and dress your upper body with fewer layers but one(s) that shed water and are a compromise between breathability, wind and waterproofness, and maneuverability. The Mocke paddle vest sold by OPS is a great piece of clothing for cold weather. All you'd need with it would be a medium wt tight knit (for wind resistance) wicking type shirt and you'd be set - as long as you're in training mode. I used to train on the Columbia in Wenatchee all winter, and staying close to shore was the most important part. A drysuit is tough to train in as is a farmer John, and neither do much for you if you're right next to shore or on water you can stand up in. Plus, both might give you a false sense of security over deep water far from shore, too.

Fantastic story - I cant believe your stories, makes our complaints when it gets down to 7-10c and we put on beanies and thermals.
Inspirational you guys deserve a medal

I think its cold when water temp gets down to 20deg Celsius You can keep your -6.

One of the reasons I moved.
I hate the cold.
Now if it hits 20 c I think it is cold.

The winters here in Virginia Beach, VA can get cold, water gets to about 40 degrees & many mornings the air temp is freezing, 30-32 degrees or colder many times. I dress as if a catastrophic event were to happen while paddling....that is, I paddle the ocean and if I get separated from my ski, I want to make sure I can survive for rescue or self rescue.

With being said, I use a full wetsuit (I'm also a surfer), 4/3mm with booties, gloves & a cap. The wetsuits today are crazy flexible. I've surfed in freezing conditions for 2-3 hours before in these wetsuits, so survival should be no problem with these. My buddy & I just went to get him one this past weekend, we found a nice, brand named 4/3 wetsuit for $150 @ a local surf shop....that's crazy cheap!

Hope this helps and gives you another option to think about,
Aloha,
-Rich

Thanks Rich,

East coast conditions are pretty comparable. I have been out where the bow of the kayak acts like an ice breaker. I find it a little scary when the bow rides up on the sheet for a foot or two, the boat gets tippy before it breaks through... no thanks I'll XC ski that day.

The guys in my town are mostly white water guys and they all use wet suits. They are recommending Xcel suits that have multiple thickness for movement. Is there a brand or any features that I should ask for? I have never owned a wet suit and none of the white water guys paddles a surf ski.

I suppose it is the cost of winter clothes/wetsuit vs. a paddle ergometer... or maybe a seasonal move to OZ. I do have a old school chum outside of Melbourne.

Thanks
Tom

As the temps drop I have a series of dressing modes that seem to treat me well. As the air temps drop into the upper 50 to low 60 deg F range I usually go out with my biking wind breaker jacket and possibly light biking tights over my neophrene paddling shorts and long-sleeved paddling shirt, keeping with my neophrene water shoes. I start wearing my PFD as well, which adds quite a bit of warmth. As temps drop into the low 50's, I swap the paddling shirt for a SmartWool base-layer shirt and add a wool cap. As temps go to the upper 40's, I'll go to heavier biking tights and add pogies (mambas) to my hands and wool socks and knee-high river boots to my feet. Below that I usually go with a full wool base layer, 2-piece dry suit, wool socks and river boots, pogies, PFD, and a warm hat. This year I picked up a pair of Kokotat dry pants with built-in neophrene socks so I don't have to deal with the gasket around my ankles. Some of my friends are running full 1-piece dry suits or full wetsuits when it gets really cold (as in ice is floating in the river). As long as the rivers aren't frozen, I'm usually out paddling on most Saturdays through the winter (when I had a plastic kayak I used to play "ice breaker" with it during the winter if my access channel to the river was frozen).

One caveat to the above: I can't fit my feet in my V10L with the river boots. They would fit the Evo I used to have, and my Thunderbolt, but the foot well is too narrow on the V10L (it barely fits my feet as is). I may see if I can get by with wool socks in the dry pants socks and my regular paddling shoes. Otherwise, I usually revert to my Thunderbolt for winter paddling (the extra stabilty is comforting as well). We're planning on picking up an 0C-2 shortly, which should also make a fun winter vessel - fast, but stable.

As far as what brand wetsuit to buy.......pretty much any one you would find at a surf shop would be a good one. Xcel, O'Neil, Rip Curl, Quicksilver etc....are all good suits. Make sure you try them on before you buy, you want to get a good fitting one and all brands feel a little different than the others, so try on and see which one feels good to you.

I typically get a suit thats 4mm in the body/legs and 3mm in the shoulder/arm area, thats how most are made and it saves you on the shoulders & arms paddling w/ 3mm up top.

Enjoy!
-Aloha,
-Rich

I also had a neoprene wetsuit like swimcap that extended well over the ears an did up with a strap under the chin.

With that on, if for some reason you took a swim, it didn't hit so much with a shock cold water burn and I knew that a lot of heat that would normally escape from the head would not be lost.

Hey rightbrainbad: Are you for real? why would you not use pogies if you are on a lake?
No one I know likes paddling with gloves of any kind.
I only use 3mm precurved gloves if I'm paddling where
I might need to remount where pogies would get in the way.
Even then its arguably better to have warm usable fingers
and deal with pogies than numb stumps and gloves.

Also: since in your pissy diatribe against Epics otherwise
superb full carbon midwing you decline to help your
comrade paddlers effect their own simple repair, please
allow me to -
To epoxy a new collar clamp on: Just get a 1" O.D. aluminum tube, maybe
a foot long, and it will fit perfectly inside the (Maroon size) outer Epic shaft.
Lock in a wire to the inside of the alum. tube with a plug of water putty (e.g. Durham's), so you can pull on the wire later to remove the aluminum tube.
Apply a tiny bit of blistex/vaseline judiciously inside the new collar
clamping "petals" , threads, and anywhere else you don't want epoxy sticking.
This tube will keep the any epoxy out of the shaft, and also keep
the collar straight, while the epoxy cures. Note this is for the maroon shaft.
I don't know the size for the blue shaft model.

John

Winter really sucks in the Northern Hemisphere. Summer our water temp hovers at 28 degrees (Celsius) and in winter goes way down to 20 degrees. Brrrrrrrr.

Not Fair SS...

Today's paddle -- calm but overcast, Air 10C Water 12C and it isn't even winter yet.

Tom

Hey rightbrainbad: Are you for real? why would you not use pogies if you are on a lake?

Long way from anywhere in a small town.
No one else paddles out there.
No shops to tell me more than I didn't know.
Never heard of a pogie until I moved to the coast, then I didn't need em. Never tried em.

The dry gloves actually worked quite well. They were suggested by a local sports store.
Dry toasty fingers.
The only issue was that they were a bit slippery to hold the paddle.
Careful catch, nothing wrong with that.

Re paddle, off topic but.
You will note that I did put a note saying that this was simply repaired without contacting Epic.
I just had no faith in the current Australian importer after dealings with them in the past.
Everybody that has dealt with them knows what I mean.

I think the wing is a great paddle.
I just happen to get one of the few that had a problem.
Make of it what you wish.

To repair it in the end, it was cleaned up, some 5 min epoxy put on the shaft, not the collar, but leaving a about three millimeters from the end uncovered so as not to leak out the collar. Only enough to catch the collar to locate it.

The collar was pushed on and lined up by eye.
A quick check to see that no epoxy had escaped into the inside of the collar and the other end of the paddle was inserted to keep alignment.

Paddle held the right way up to stop the epoxy migrating into the shaft as it set.

After epoxy set enough to be self supporting, mix up some more and pour in collar from behind to fill up the joint and leave a supporting radiused edge.

Check again that there has been no contamination of the shaft, insert shaft and lock up clamp with a small pressure and leave paddle to set in the position that it is going to be used so that the collar is in a position of neutral stress.

Use next day with professional looking repair.

As you seem to have also done this in the past, then there are obviously more paddles out there than mine that have had this happen to them.

You just dissed them more than me, as you seem to think that it is a regular thing.......

I like everybody know that sometimes crap slips through the quality controls, I just want manufacturers to acknowledge it and sort it out.

I won't stand for buyers taking a personal hit for a bad product, when the cost should be absorbed into the purchase price and spread around all. So I will call any company out on bad treatment of their customers.

But in the end, like I said, all I want to do is paddle.....

There is an advantage in buying from a local manufacturer. i have a Knysna paddle and an Orka. Orka based here in Cape Town and is owned by the Coles who are readily approachable and are prominent in the local paddling community.

Just an aside,RAB. For a year I've read your posts as being signed rightarmband, have just realised the arm is bad and not banded....

Hope the disability doesn't impede your paddling!

It used to, but now it is fine.
Some times my right hand goes tingly and sort of hurts if it is a bit cold and I am going hard, but otherwise, all good.

The only real effect is my right brain, according to Lost John......