Sellers, buyers, manufacturers and product backup

I am originally from a small town. 3000 in the actual town, maybe 8000 in the entire district.
Word of mouth is god.
There is no better advertising than doing the right thing.

I have been a buyer, a seller and a small time manufacturer in various forms throughout my life.
I know what it is like to be squeezed both ends by the customer and the manufacturer/national/state distributer.
I know how much it sucks when the product you spent good money on only lasted like a cheap copy.

I know what it is like to sit down and factor into costs, what parts/ installation may fail.
How difficult will it be to support this product?
Are there third party bits and pieces that may not be able to be procured to repair something of my own creation?
How many of these should I stockpile for remote possible failures?
How long should I support my own product?

Now days, the typical retail chain is, made in china/ wherever, imported by wholesaler, sold to customer by retailer. Or simply a retailer buying from generic manufacturer and then skipping the middle men.

Now, as a retailer, your response to a warranty claim is a direct result of the backup that you receive from higher up the manufacturing chain.
If a customer comes in with a legit problem and you know you have proven good backup, you simply replace the thing out of your own stock, knowing that your supplier will get one to you immediately.

These are the good guys.
The wholesaler has good shipping, has good inventory and common sense trust of the retailer.
A good supplier will ship you out goods before you even send the defective ones back.
Some even say don’t worry about sending it back, use it for parts or dump it.

The bad ones are not reachable, argue about whose responsibility it is, and leave you to self warranty the stuff to keep good customers happy.
After this sort of treatment from one supplier that I was spending roughly $15000 a month with, I simply stopped ordering anything from them and went elsewhere.
It just wasn’t worth the crap.

They call me up a few weeks later to see why I had not been ordering anything from them, I told them why, and there reply was, ‘but we are a lot cheaper’.
You can’t expect us to do anything more than what we do for you.

Sorry, wrong answer.
When the faulty crap is taken into account they are no cheaper, plus you get the stress of unsatisfied customers.

Their loss of sales to me in those few weeks, just one customer, was way more than anything that it would have cost them to do the right thing.
But I have no doubt that some cost cutting middle manager got his bonus for lowering warranty claims.


Most surf ski paddlers have two things in common.
They just want to paddle, and importantly, they don’t paddle alone.

So when you think that you only ever hear about the complaints; that’s just bullshit.
Because for every complaint, there have been a great many uneventful, enjoyable paddles that accumulate to make the guys that are paddling along side you in their new shinny boat, the greatest advertising the manufacturer could ever get.

Now with the modern internet, that paddling group extends worldwide.
All things good and bad are shared, just like living in a small town.

And this is good, for word of mouth will rule once more.


All warranty/ backup has its roots in the manufacturer.
They are ultimately responsible for everything regarding this.

If the national importer/ distributor is a bastard at honouring warranty, then it is usually because of the way they are treated by the manufacturer.
If the importer/distributor really is the bad guy, then again, it falls on the manufacturer to loose the troublesome part of their distribution chain to keep their good name.

No if’s, but’s or maybe’s.
The manufacturer is responsible for all, unless of course they are simply manufacturing for a contract and somebody else slaps a name on the thing.


As a customer all I want to do is paddle.
I don’t want to wait 6 weeks while my defective bit is shipped back to a manufacturer, repaired or relaced and then shipped back out.

That’s crap.
I’ll say it again, ‘I just want to paddle!’.

I’m writing this, because as I am writing this, I can’t paddle.
My paddle has broken.
Nothing bad, just the adjustable collar to lock the paddle has come unstuck.

This wouldn’t be so bad if the National distributor would carry stock of anything other than the best selling bits, as I have been waiting for a while now to get another paddle so that if this sort of thing happened I would have a spare.

But it is broken, I don’t have my spare yet, so now I can’t paddle.

So what do I do?
Well I for one am not going to wait weeks for a resolution, I had a quick go at fixing it myself with adhesives I have, got a little scared when just a tinny bit of adhesive got into the join and the paddle was looking like it would be stuck fast in the one position.

(Because of the way the collar is made, it needs the two paddle halves together to support and align the collar as it sets.)

I spent half an hour getting the thing apart, cleaned up all the adhesive and the next day, took it down to the store where I purchased it and sorted out a gluing mechanism there and it is now curing waiting for me to go collect.

Now, I shouldn’t have even had to consider doing this.
But guess what, I just wanted to paddle!
I know that the Australian wholesaler doesn’t have another in stock, as I am still waiting patiently for my paid for but not received second paddle.

I don’t wish to wait forever to ship it to them to get fixed.
I don’t want to wait for unanswered emails.
I don’t want to talk to them on the phone, have everything sorted only to have to ring up days after to find that nothing has been done as they have done to me in the past.

I just want to paddle.

The retailer should never be placed in a position like this either.
This is exactly how warranty messes begin.

Manufacturers need to understand this.
When I fork out a big chunk of money to get the best, this sort of crap shouldn’t happen.
At the moment, I’ve paid twice, and I still can’t paddle.

The retailer involved in this has been nothing but helpful and honest.
All he wants to do is get me back on the water.

The crap comes from above.

No manufacturer can blame anybody else but themselves when warranty messes come about.
If you just have in place good policies, it simply cannot happen.
Not only will they save themselves grief, but the next time the customer goes for a paddle and everybody asks how did it go with the warranty, he is all smiles.

‘Word of mouth’, can’t beat it.



In the climbing world, many manufacturers do post on boards such as this.
They do it well and they do it promptly.
They know that they are dealing with the entire community.
They are honest, because they know that they will be called out 2 seconds after they post.
But mostly because they are usually climbers themselves and are also part of the community.
Surf ski is a very similar sort of thing.
Worldwide, this is still a small community and no manufacturer will last if they do not take control of the back up of their product.

Word of mouth will kill them.


For me, I will now sit down and consider if I should cancel the order for the second paddle and get some other type.
But the funny thing is, if the local repair is successful, the wholesaler and the manufacturer will not even hear of my woes apart from on these forums.
If somebody asks me what I think about the paddle, I will simply tell them exactly what I have had to do.
Now if we were a bunch of six about to head out for a paddle after work on a weekday, there’s 5 other people that know and trust me, that are now wondering about the manufacturing quality and the backup service.

Word of mouth, and quality backup, can’t beat it……….

Nice post. I was reflecting on my recent experiences with one of the surfski manufacturers and I wholeheartedly agree with your observations. When it comes down to it, paddlers just want to paddle. If a boat manufacturer doesn’t deliver quality products and does not provide support for them, customers will move on. I like that John Mellencamp song where he lauds about living in a “Small Town”. I think we live in interesting times because the Internet brings us all closer together. Through this forum and others like it, we can communicate globally in a virtual small town, where a manufacturers’ reputation is not made by fancy marketing campaigns or elite paddlers on their payroll but by consistently producing, delivering and supporting, high quality, innovative products.

The manufacturers who thrive in this “Small Town” will be the ones who not only meet their customer’s expectations but those who exceed them (by allowing paddlers to paddle…). As a result they will earn fierce customer loyalty, repeat buyers and a substantial competitive advantage over their rivals.

Great bit of writing - but ask the youth of today and they are used to this...throw it away and buy another one.

Sadly those days of service, brand loyalty and back up are certainly gone.

Good luck with your blade, tell us the brand so we dont go down that track ( then see the service level change !!)

My paddle is now a goer, I shall paddle tomorrow.
Epoxied back together, stronger than original.

Just remember here, I have had this repaired without any contact whatsoever with the manufacturer.
Because I just wanna paddle.
I'd post a picture, but can't remember how to post it.

It is the very common and respected Epic wing.
This is not the first time this sort of repair has been done to one of these paddles.

After dealing with Epic Australia a year ago to arrange a quick replacement of a rudder for an acquaintance, I simply have no confidence in them performing a quick turn around with a warranty repair, so it is now done and I can paddle.

Make of it what you wish...

Hey Right arm a bit off topic but im in the market for a new paddle and was looking at the Epic mid wing.With your experience would you buy another one if you were to lose the paddle you have or would you go something different?

First up, I have a mid-large wing, hence the problem with supply.
Manufacturers have convinced everybody that no matter your size, a mid wing will fit you, so that's all the importer stocks.
Everything else is special order.

Before it broke I loved it, after I repaired it, I love it again.
Knowing now how easy it is to fix it properly, then yes my second paddle is still on order.

It will be five centimeters longer shaft, that way it will not be run at it's limit for length.
See if it fails or lasts better.

The only other issue with the paddle is a well known one.
The little block of metal that the locking lever screws into, is made of a hopelessly underrated grade of stainless.

It shows rust after the first use.
It just happened to be the reason why I noticed the detaching collar.
I had not paddled for a week and went to put the paddle together and the lever nearly locked due to rust.

When I was messing around freeing it up I noticed that the collar was moving on the shaft and that the adhesive was broken.

The shops usually have a few of these in stock, so it is obviously a known problem.
I clean my paddle with fresh clean water immediately after every paddle.
I am now putting a little bit of Inox on it to see if that helps.
I may try some marine grease.
Open to any suggestions, I'd rather not have to replace the locking mech every three months.

Just gotta say, there are a lot of paddles out there.
The reason I got an Epic was that I classed it as a safe purchase.

There are heaps out there and the only bad I have heard is of early ones breaking in the surf.
The new ones are now beefed up.

Because the market is still quite small, there are not too many paddles in the upper range sitting in stock that you can demo, well not on the Gold Coast of Australia anyways.

So really, the choice came down to, adjustable length and feather, break apart so easy to carry in the car, big name, popular product, able to test drive.

Had I tried other paddles, I may have purchased them.
But as this is my first ski purchase, I had no idea of what length I needed, only that the current wing I had was too short and that the mid size blade was too small.

So in a nutshell, yes, but with reservations.
If this one breaks, miss Jakie at Epic Australia is going to get a mouthful, and all here will know of it.

At least now I will have a spare.
Because as always, all I want to do is paddle.....

The saga continues...

I have now been informed that my paddle is yet again unsupplied in the latest shipment.
Apparently they are redesigning the blade, probably just like the beefing up of the midwing recently.

So I am still without my backup paddle.

So anybody out there want to sell me an equivalent of an Epic mid-large wing?
Here's a buyer that is cashed up to buy as soon as I cancel my impossible to get for many, many months so far Epic.

A little more twist than the Epic may be nice, tried a fellow paddlers unbranded paddle the other day that had a bit more twist in the blade and found the exit was much cleaner.

Who sells Bracia or whatever they are called in Aussie?
Any sellers out there interested in a guaranteed buyer?

Sounds like you are describing the Jantex Gamma blade.

Check out www.bennettsurfboards.com/paddles/paddles.html.

Not sure on all this mid wing and collar stuff but go see Lats - Stealth Paddles - 20 years in business and exceptional sports man so knows what he is doing to make things work

Will last for ever, and you support a local ( Gold Coast )and not have to wait for something or someone from another country with other priorities

I've been using a Fenn4 so if you want something of better value and of good build qual along the bracha 4 line then its worth a look. I found the Fenn4 is similar size blade but has a slightly smaller cup then the bennett BV4 => (but still has a lot bigger catch then the Epic mid wing).

Co-incedently i did really enjoy the Jantex gamma medium which i went to after my epic mid wing lock mechanism let go.

So looks like a trip to West Burleigh is on the cards tomorrow.

Does anybody retail Fenn paddles on the Coast?

Not that I know of - I have only used stealth blades for the last 10 years, as have most locals and interstate paddlers.

Thought I’d add my product experience with Epic.

I posted in another thread that I had what seemed like a crack/split in the seam on my Performance V12. It’s been a long process (no fault of the local dealer) but Epic will fix the “cosmetic” problem under warrantee even though they state AU has no warrantee on the epic website.

I didn’t have to fight for the fix, there was no question on their part and all I sent them was a photo of the damage. So really I can’t complain about their product backup.

If you had a choice of ski repairers on the Gold Coast who would you pick? Are some better than others? If it’s just a cosmetic crack about 40mm long does it really matter who fixes it, due to its simplicity?

And of coarse, none of these threads had any effect on how they dealt with you...........

Mark at Zulu ski`s in Lamana lane Miami I think does a brilliant job.

Hardest thing is to get someone to fix a ski they didnt make, but Mark will and has fixed ski`s over the year I have seen with great finishes.

Remember there labour and hard work has to be rewarded so expect to pay minimum $ 200 for a small repair.

Hope it works out fo ryou

Thanks Pete, Epic said to expect to pay about $50 which I thought was a bit cheap. But what would I know.

This is an old pic, it’s a little longer now.

Interesting sort of crack, I'd love to hear from somebody that knows these things what they believe the mechanism is.

yeah maybe not as much as I thought, but he does have a minimim cost of around $120 I think, re the crack like RAB said its interesting as I have seen a few splits and cracks in my time and not worried about it.

They are a working machine that flexs etc and sometimes as discussed in previous streams the low weight does increase the probability of stress - especially on any surf coast like ours - I normally chuck some tape over it....

Good luck anyway

My only thoughts are that the two halves are simply edge butted together and then covered with the seam.
Is the basic joint sound would be my question.

It's not like a spec ski with a much larger bonding surface.

I wonder what would happen if you took a small wave and the thing buckled at that point.....

Now that would be an interesting example of backup in action.........

It looks like it is in the rear of the ski. If it was in the front you could at least get a look at it from inside.
There must be a concentration of force at that point for it to appear, or at least an obvious thinning of the tape strip to allow it to happen.
I've repaired cracked metal cylinder heads, but I don't know how things work in the composite world.
Please keep us posted.

And to complete both sides of the value/backup/service received by yours truly.

I did go and see Latman.
Hows this for customer service;

He wasted heaps of his time showing me how things are constructed in this composite world.
Very good to see at a very basic level what is done and to witness in real life the various stages of the process.

He entered into an in depth discussion of paddle size shape and then let me take a few home for the weekend to try.
Not bad for a guy that has never met me before.

He shared his experience from many years of paddling and construction, never once looking down his nose at my beginners inexperience, and never trying to push a one mans opinion on me.

My only regret is that I am still unsure of paddle length and size, so I am holding off on a purchase until my brain gains more experience and absorbs some more information.

One part of this reason is that I know I can turn up on his doorstep anytime I finally decide and get a paddle made to order in good time.

Certainly this type of service can only be described as exceptional in this day and age........