Padding sides of bucket to aid balance

I took my new (to me) Gen 2 Stellar SR out in the Atlantic Ocean in South Carolina yesterday. It was wavy and choppy with 12-15 kts of side-onshore wind. I would have been floundering horribly in those conditions on the v12 I used to have, but it was doable and fun (though still very challenging with some capsizes) on the SR. I'm glad I didn't get anything less stable than the SR.

www.strava.com/activities/1768401070/analysis

One thing I noticed was that even though the width of the boat helped my stablity, the looseness of the bucket (gap between the sides and my hips / legs) was a problem. It made a sort-of two-way "delayed reaction." A knock from side-chop would tip the boat a few cm / degrees before meeting any resistance from my body, and a twitch from my body would contact thin air first instead of getting an immediate response from the boat. I assume padding the sides of the bucket will help some, but I'm not sure how much. Has anyone else felt a big improvement in balance and control from a more snug bucket alone?

I could also use some advice on where and how to pad the bucket sides. Does the paddling need to go all the way up to the rails, or only about halfway up? Does one pad just the sides of the butt / swim trunks area, or do you also pad around the outsides of the legs / knee area?

Thanks,
James

PS- Which way are you supposed to lean/ brace when you're riding at an angle down a swell? If I'm riding to my right on the swell, I intuitively want to lean right and brace right, but is that correct? Thanks.

Hi d0uglass,

Like you, I paddle a Stellar, in my case it's an SEI. This boat also has a very spacious bucket, but I think it is a good thing because it then gives you the opportunity to pad it out for a perfect fit. I'm 6'3" (189cm) and 100kg, and still need padding. I have 7mm of padding on each side, along with 2 or 3 mm wetsuit shorts, and this feels really comfortable. To give myself a more personal fit I use 25mm of padding under my backside because I feel stable enough in this boat and like the higher positioning. I also have 7mm of padding just behind by bum-cheeks to position me slightly more forward. An additional benefit of the rear padding is that I could cut out the middle of it to make it even more comfortable for my coccyx.

I pad over the gunwales all the way from seat to footwell with 2mm thickness. This has the double purpose of softening blows between paddle and boat, and it also gives me better grip for remounts when needed.

The material I use is a neoprene based material from the local hardware store. Sometimes it comes with adhesive tape on one side, but if not, I use silicon. This also keeps the bum pad firmly in place and fills in any gaps, as well as giving the neoprene rubber a slippier feel for rotation if applied over the top of the bum-pad.

Hip pads make a huge difference in stability and control. I use 1/2” thick closed cell foam. A piece the size of a smart phone or smaller is adequate. Here is a pic of the pad in my v12. The black stuff is pvc tape I use over the bottom seat pad to make it more slippery.

For hip pads i t only takes a small piece, up high, and just forward of the deepest part of the bucket.

PVC tape for slippery bum so rotate better with good technique?

Yes, basically makes it as slippery as the bare gelcoat.

You are saying: "A knock from side-chop would tip the boat a few cm / degrees before meeting any resistance from my body, and a twitch from my body would contact thin air first instead of getting an immediate response from the boat."

I don't know why you want to control the balance of the boat with your hips like that. The boat should move freely so you can just keep your body upright and in balance without being affected by the boat, and if you try to use your body to keep the boat in neutral position, this will only hurt your balance. As long as you are still seated properly in the middle of the bucket, you should have enough feeling with it, and it will not capsize.

Trying to control the movements of the boat is like standing on a balance board and trying to keep it horizontal at all times - you will not stay for long, since the balancing relies on NOT following the movements of the board.

I find it is the same for a kayak (sea kayaks not included).

> The boat should move freely so you can just keep your body upright and in balance without being affected by the boat

Yup, that's my recent experience as well. One of the experienced surfskiers in our group suggested that I keep my knees together at all times, especially when going upwind in choppy waves. Or said differently, push with my legs more towards the centerline and not outwards. It made a big difference because by letting my knees move outwards I was leaning on the boat causing it to rock too much and I was relying too much on the secondary stability. Keeping my knees together made my body balance on its own decoupled from the boat's movements, which became lesser because I wasn't leaning on the boat anymore.

Keeping your knees closer together also lets you paddle much more efficiently, because you are more free to rotate your hips, and leg work will not disturb your balance.

James, I am a narrow-hipped advanced paddler and I find that a snug fit helps balance and boat handling tremendously in rough water. Flat water doesn't make a difference because secondary stability never comes into the equation. I like the previous poster's balance ball analogy, but for my style I allow my hips to tilt left/right in connection with the hull while keeping the core/torso upright: I visualize a string pulling up on the top of my head and this allows my torso to stay upright while the hips move around with the waves, taking advantage of secondary stability as needed.

Going downwind in particular, you need to have precise control over the tilt/roll angle of the hull in relation to the waves. You have already figured this out, as evidenced by your question about leaning/ bracing while surfing. The answer is that if you take off and steer right, you lean and brace right while giving a little bit of left rudder. If you're surfing to the left, brace/lean left. When you lean the hull over, it actually helps steer the boat and to prove this to yourself, try this: On perfectly flat water, build up some speed then while keeping the pedals perfectly centered, lean right. The hull will track off to the left. I will leave it to the smart guys around here to explain why this happens...

I agree with Pswitzer. I love a snug bucket in rough chop and downwind.

In cross chop I still keep my torso upright and let the boat roll whichever way the waves want it to. I think the big benefit of a good connection to the bucket in that situation is that your brain gets instant feedback on what the boat and waves are doing.

In downwind, it seems that as you get more skilled you do more with body english and boat lean and less with the rudder. A snug bucket really helps with that. You have more control of the ski and can make more precise and subtle adjustments in boat lean. You also get more feedback through your hips as to what the waves are doing to the boat.

And yes, many people add some padding where the sides of the shins or knees would contact the bucket. It only takes a small cell phone sized piece right where the contact point with the bucket is. Same deal, more control and more feedback. The think boats have some of the best buckets in that regard.

Nice to have a discussion with some "balanced" views

There are good points for both having more control of the ski - I agree that this is also important, e.g. in breaking waves, and for not letting the ski control you by having your legs or sides of your hips touching the ski.

I have to agree with Zach here. I don’t think anyone Is talking whitewater boat outfitting here. I find a significant increase in stability if I have a bucket or padding that makes sure I have controle over the ski and not have the ski move around too much. If my ski is too loose it can shift under me when I’m in big conditions or bouncing round in chaotic water. A simple pad on the top of the seat that touches my sides and keeps the ski from rocking around helps my stability a lot. It keeps the ski from shifting under me and finding myself sitting off center. It’s not tight and in no way inhibits my rotation. In fact in some ways it helps it as I can drive hard in crazy conditions and not worry about the ski shifting under me. This was noticeable in my V10 Sport as it the bucket was so shallow and if I was in my summer paddling cloths it was loose in the hips. I need to do this in my Sworfish S as well as the bucket flares twords the top a bit plus it’s also very round and the ski has shifted on me a couple of times. I definitely find having the upper sides of the bucket touch (not tight, just touch) helps my controle of the ski and enhances how aggressive I can be with it. But I’m talking in proper downwind conditions, I wouldn’t care elsewhere.