Seat Padding

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #15817 by Savage
Seat Padding was created by Savage
Gday,

I am 170cm and 68Kg

I'm just getting into paddling these skis, I have a Swordfish and I'm a little loose in the bucket. I've put a 30mm thick horse shoe shaped pad that runs around the sides and rear of the bucket which gives me more stability and better reach over the hump to the peddles.

I'd prefer not to but I'm thinking of slightly padding the sit area as well as I'm starting to get dead leg every so often so maybe this might help.

My question is, dose padding a seat, weather it be the the sides, back, or sit area of the seat restrict proper form and rotation, in other words dose it bind you up too much.

Thanks for any info
Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by Savage.

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9 years 8 months ago #15820 by sAsLEX

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9 years 8 months ago #15821 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Seat Padding
Not if you cover it in slippery material, the foam itself is too grippy. I also put a plastic bag on the seat, just to help a little more but have no issue with rotation and I make all my own seats.

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9 years 8 months ago #15827 by LaPerouser
Replied by LaPerouser on topic Re: Seat Padding
You can also put padding inside your shorts: easily adjustable, no glue required, and no risk of dislodging during a remount. Just don't go near anyone with a camera ;)

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9 years 8 months ago #15838 by cjborg
Replied by cjborg on topic Re: Seat Padding
Get a pair of the Breakers Sailing shorts with fanny fender: www.sailingangles.com/prod_gen.cfm?catid=1001. The 3/16 inch foam (it isn't 3/8) is just enough to prevent bum numbness or bruising without raising your center of gravity noticeably. They work great with a thin, tight nylon or lycra undershort. The padded nylon tights are nice too, but I like the sailing shorts better. Pricey, but well made. The velcro pocket on the leg is a nice place for gels, etc. that are easily reached during a paddle without too much manipulation... also have regular pockets that are good for schlepping small items to the put in.

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9 years 8 months ago #15863 by shu
Replied by shu on topic Re: Seat Padding
I have a slightly different question on this topic. I often find that without a pad in the seat (which provides some traction as well as cushion and raised seating height) that I slip and slide around in the seat when in the bump. For me this makes me much less stable and much less able to apply solid power. This is not an issue in the flats but in the bump it definitely impacts me. I've even gone so far to use surfboard wax in the seat... which seems to actually work pretty well; but people tell me that it's a bad idea. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks.

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9 years 8 months ago #15864 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Seat Padding
Hip pads? I was a little loose in my new Swordfish last week, the addition of hip pads made the ski much more controllable for me. In fact all my ski's have had hip pads fitted as they have all been too loose for me.

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #15870 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Seat Padding
I needed hip pads in my V10sport, yes being snug in the bucket makes a huge difference to stability. I am a perfect fit in my Carbonology Flash and have recently been experimenting with plastic bags and shampoo in the bucket to improve rotation. So far the shampoo is working a treat and my training mates reckon I smell lovely :P

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by AR_convert.

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9 years 8 months ago #15871 by cjborg
Replied by cjborg on topic Re: Seat Padding
I've been told by elite paddlers that the best situation is to have no padding in the ski so that your rotation is smooth and unimpeded by friction from padding, but for the ski to fit you snugly enough that you don't slide from side to side in the seat. That's difficult to achieve without a custom fit seat well, so most of us have to shim with padding here and there. A slippery surface on the padding seems to work best so that leg/hip rotation are not hindered by friction against the padding. In my experience, they are right, although at first, grippy padding does seem to improve stability and bracing . . . but it inhibits hip rotation and after you get more comfortable with the stability of the ski, that becomes an issue.

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #15879 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Seat Padding

cjborg wrote: I've been told by elite paddlers that the best situation is to have no padding in the ski so that your rotation is smooth and unimpeded by friction from padding, but for the ski to fit you snugly enough that you don't slide from side to side in the seat.


Yep, that's what I'm discovering. I love the fit of my Flash bucket and it's super fun downwind but.... I wanted a higher seating position for marathon (flat water) paddling.

I have been experimenting with some various density and thickness foams but if the foam is too soft you sink into it and that inhibits rotation and I have discovered after much trial and error that as I do rotate quite a lot I put stress on my Sacro Illiac joint when using padding as my hips aren't moving as well as they should when I use leg drive and rotation. If I take the padding out and use a slippery medium like shampoo or I use my double layered paddling shorts that allow sliding between the layers I suffer less lower back issues and I find I can hold better form = speed longer.

I have asked Carbonology about manufacturing a ski to a marathon "spec" , so not necessarily changing the design just lifting the seat height for those of us who love the fit and other design characteristics of the ski but want to sit higher. They are still of the opinion that if you want to sit higher use padding.

I know some local paddlers with deep pockets that have actually had the buckets in their ski's chopped and lowered or lifted but I am not at that point just yet.

From my perspective Think were onto this with their high seat but stable platform design in the Uno and with Nelo coming from a kayak manufacturing background have sought to give that K1 feel to their skis.

More recently Fenn and Epic have put a toe in the water with higher bucket ski's with the Glide and V14, but they are still an each way bet for both downwind and flatwater racing.

I guess from a motivation to design/produce point of view it comes down to demand. If a manufacturer was to just say what the hell we are going to make a K1/ski crossover what would the demand be?

The Van Dusen Mohican is something like that, more of a kayak that has had the cockpit sealed off from the bow and stern so it can be paddled in open water and wont sink if rolled and has a bailer. This is a very interesting set of pics from Chris Chappell showing a Mohican being built. Note the rotating seat and drain from the seat to the footwell :woohoo: plus.google.com/photos/10089324047834204...743532434?banner=pwa

Use the advantage of a longer water line, get rid of the volume and rocker needed for downwind and just make the thing fast. Have a really solid footplate set-up to provide the stability that will be needed.

Perhaps we should start an expression of interest thread for such a ski.

........and for those who are thinking "just go paddle a K1!" , chances are I probably will be soon, especially after having a paddle in a Vajda Infusion K1 after a sprint training session with my training group this week. I was blown away by the speed of the thing. I used to think there wasn't much difference between a K1 and a light/stiff ski having only paddled older K1's, but this new K1 changed my opinion on that....they fly :lol:

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by AR_convert.

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #15880 by PaddleFaster
Replied by PaddleFaster on topic Re: Seat Padding
In a ski seat, for flat water distance paddling, I have found that the Sealine Discovery Inflatable seat cushion is the most adjustable and comfortable way to cushion the seat compared to any other option. I use mine every paddle.


]


To install:

I epoxied four strips of 52mm? wide(2 inch wide) Velcro to the cushion itself -front & back, both sides- and then attached their mating pieces to the bucket.

When you sit on the cushion and let air out, it conforms to the exact shape of the bucket giving an approx. 3mm, thin foam padding, with a slick nylon surface that in my opinion slipperier than the bucket itself and therefore still allows great rotation.

If after a long distance, pain starts to set in, you simply apply pressure to your footplate with your feet to slightly raise your bum, twist open the adjustable air valve and the cushioning inside automatically expands.

You then close the valve and re-seat yourself, and the cushion will now take just enough pressure off to make you comfortable and relieve the discomfort, while at the same time conforming exactly to the shape of the bucket and your body.

I have tried every option over the years because I do a lot of distance fitness-paddling in my skis during the paddling season; 25+ km a few days a week.

This option has worked the best for me personally because it's fully, "on the fly adjustable" as well as slick surfaced. The only drawback is the price of the pad is more expensive; $50 U.S.

It's important to epoxy the Velcro onto the pad by just brushing a very light film of epoxy right over the Velcro strips glue, because
doing this makes the Velcro stay on permanent.

When putting the Velcro strips in the bucket, wipe the surface with rubbing alcohol before hand to make it stick to a clean surface.

You do not epoxy the Velcro to the ski. For that you use the standard glue that is on the back of the Velcro.
Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by PaddleFaster.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Marieski

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9 years 8 months ago #15881 by PaddleFaster
Replied by PaddleFaster on topic Re: Seat Padding
One other point about price. If you have multiple skis, this same pad, becaus eof the Velcro attachment, this pad can be removed and used in each ski instead of padding each individual boat seat.

Also, the loop (fuzzy) side of the Velcro always gets attached to the boat so that you can still sit in the boat without the pad and not have the Velcro tugging on the fabric of your shorts.

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9 years 8 months ago #15882 by zachhandler
Replied by zachhandler on topic Re: Seat Padding
Awesome Idea, PaddleFaster. I have a boney ass. I have had good luck with the Link pad that is sold commercially, and also homemade pads of sleeping pad foam wrapped in thick plastic and attacked to the boat with double sided duct tape. The adjustability and inherent slipperiness of your pad looks great though.

As far as the price, it is a steal if the alternative is not paddling or not paddling much or not enjoying paddling.

Do you take the pad out of the boat when driving on the highway? I left my first Link pad velcroed in because I didnt want to weaken the velcro with too much use. Lasted two years at freeway speeds before it blew off one day.

Current Skis: Epic v10 g3, NK 670 double, NK exrcize, Kai Wa’a Vega, Carbonology Feather, Think Jet, Knysna Sonic X
Former Skis: Epic V12 g2, Epic V12 g1, Epic v10 double, Nelo 550 g2, Fenn Elite S, Custom Kayaks Synergy

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9 years 8 months ago #15883 by PaddleFaster
Replied by PaddleFaster on topic Re: Seat Padding
Thank you Zach, yes, I remove it on highway trips. Locals not always. I also have a spare I always keep in the truck.

I don't think it's the kind of pad that people would want to use when chasing off shore runs.

But for those times -and for those people- that have outings on flatwater where they are basically using the ski for aggressive or casual fitness kayak style paddling over longer distances, I personally haven't found a better option overall.

When you empty it of air, it's very much like the Lincke pad in the way in conforms to the seat and the material it is made of, but when things get painful near the end, or in the middle of a paddle you have that extra option of adding some air.

On really bad back days, I raise myself up, take the pad off while still in the boat and blow a little extra air into so that it is so firm my bum rests completely on air without touching the boat.

The only thing some people might be bothered by is that the valve itself is always under one thigh. That doesn't bother me at all however.

I say $50 U.S. is expensive because not everyone may feel about it as I do and that's a good amount to "try something out".


As a side note, last season, I have come up with a way to make a simple, but very secure and effective, squirt water bottle holder that rests between the legs in the ski. It's make it out of Velcro, epoxy and 3/16 (5 or 6mm) bungee cord.

I use it to hold an insulated water bottle in my V10 Sport whilst paddling. If anyone is interested, please say so and I will take the time to post a picture and explain how to make it.

I have been long winded enough here trying to cover everything and I don't want to be even more annoying than I have been.

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9 years 8 months ago #15884 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Seat Padding

PaddleFaster wrote: As a side note, last season, I have come up with a way to make a simple, but very secure and effective, squirt water bottle holder that rests between the legs in the ski. It's make it out of Velcro, epoxy and 3/16 (5 or 6mm) bungee cord.

I use it to hold an insulated water bottle in my V10 Sport whilst paddling. If anyone is interested, please say so and I will take the time to post a picture and explain how to make it.

I have been long winded enough here trying to cover everything and I don't want to be even more annoying than I have been.


I would love to see it, perhaps start a new topic "drink holders/tubes" or similar so your idea doesn't get lost under this thread topic, just thinking of those who come searching the forum in a few months/years time. I have been experimenting with wire, tape, plastic bottles etc for various marathon drink systems with options to be able to drink from two tubes, one with water, another with my "go juice" mixture. I dont like to wear a camelbak due to the weight and heat so have been running a long tube from the footwell in front of the footplate. This is fine for downwind but in marathon I am really trying to minimise weight and wanting the two drinks to choose from would mean running two tubes. If you post your photos I'll post mine ;)

Always looking for the next boat :)

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9 years 8 months ago #15885 by ccchappell
Replied by ccchappell on topic Re: Seat Padding
Hi AR_convert,
See you found my photo gallery of building a Mohican :) Put that together for a post I'm working on...never enough time to finish! I live about 5 miles from Ted Van Dusen's shop and was able to watch them build both my Mohicans...pretty cool.

Yes, the tube works good, but I actually don't like it. My larger bottom side fills the seat pretty good, so I really never get water in it :) Even thought the bottom of seat is higher then the footwell, if I have water in the foot well and slow down or stop, the water will sometimes flow back into the seat through the tube...quite a surprise to my bottom side when the water is cold!!. The tube system works best when you are using the rotating seat that you saw in one of the pictures since there is a space for the water to collect under the rotating seat and then the drain works great.

Chris

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9 years 8 months ago #15895 by Swimmer
Replied by Swimmer on topic Re: Seat Padding
I use padding in my V10S for my hip/thigh area as the cockpit is way too wide for me. It made a huge difference to my stability. Having a snug fit in the cockpit makes a huge difference,but needs a bit of experimenting as to how much and where to place it. I've used a fairly firm 2cm thick foam which I stuck in place by using wide 4.5cm duct tape which being a plastic type tape is smooth and non gripping, so doesn't restrict body/leg movement.
The padding is about 20cm longwise, x 8cm deep down inside the cockpit and x 2cm thickness. It's about 2cm down from the top of the boat. It's more aimed at padding out the top of my thighs and not against my hips which I found inhibits turning them.
I've never had a lot of trouble re padding for the seat re my bum, but I do wear either bike shorts or tri shorts - lycra - which both have some padding built into them.

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9 years 8 months ago #15897 by cjborg
Replied by cjborg on topic Re: Seat Padding
I mentioned previously in this thread that seat padding should have a slick finish so that it doesn't rub and thereby inhibit rotation...or worse, cause terrible blisters, which happens to me repeatedly in one of my skis.

BUT . . . I don't know how to produce a slick finish on the gray minicell foam used to pad seats . . . here I'm referring to padding the back of the seat to move one forward in the cockpit (I'm one of those short-legged creatures) or on the sides to snug it up.

Does anyone have experience here . . . is it possible to make the gray minicell surface smooth and slippery, like gelcoat . . . and if so, how?

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9 years 8 months ago #15899 by PaddleFaster
Replied by PaddleFaster on topic Re: Seat Padding
cjborg, yes it is possible and I have done it in the past when making a seat for a ski bucketed kayak I used to own.


What you would do is cover the surface of the minicell foam with a piece of Ripstop nylon.


To do this, you would use an heavy duty spray adhesive such as those listed at the following link at an online supplier here in the U.S.




You would first cut your seat pad to the shape you prefer.

You would them spray the adhesive on it's surface and attach an oversize piece of the Ripstop nylon.

Once the glue dries, usually within an hours time, you would then trim the Ripstop nylon properly around the seat pad.

To give you an idea of the type of material I am speaking of, here is another link from Ebay here in the U.S.




If you have an old modern nylon camping tent lying around that is
in good shape that you no longer have a use for, you can also use a piece of material cut from that...


Hope this info helps.

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9 years 8 months ago #15900 by PaddleFaster
Replied by PaddleFaster on topic Re: Seat Padding
I am sorry, for some reason the two links I included did not post.

I will try again here.


For the nylon

www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?
_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313&_nkw=ripstop+nylon&_sacat=0&_from=R40


For the glue

www.mcmaster.com/#spray-adhesives/=m0pa9r

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