Warranty on skis, online complaints, etc

  • AR_convert
  • AR_convert's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Brett McDonald previous forum name :Pilbaralad
More
9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #15139 by AR_convert
On a training paddle tonight I was asked if I had seen a You Tube video doing the rounds on Facebook. I hadn't and when I asked if he could forward it to me the friend said he got rid of it for fear of incurring the wrath of the manufacturer highlighted in the review.

So I just finished watching the video which stuck the boot into a well known ski manufacturer :dry:

The person making the video claims he was threatened with being sued for going online with his complaint.

Some issues that arise from this

1) Is it right that people feel scared to talk openly about issues for fear of being sued?

2) Are ski owners with issues being overzealous in their attempts to "extort" a satisfactory outcome from the manufacturer?

3) Do manufacturers need to pull their socks up on the issue of warranties and be transparent on what they will do in the event of an issue and respond promptly to issues raised?

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 9 years 10 months ago by AR_convert.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15140 by CyberSki
Great topic!

I know of at least one instance where a consumer was sued by a company for a bad review on the "Yelp" service/website. The judge in the case found the consumer guilty, too.

I have had troubles with skis/kayaks in the past (yes, I am picky)but I have always given both the manufacturer and retailer (M/R)every chance to correct the issue - and they all have done just that when given the chance. Trashing the M/R online before you give them every chance does fit item #2 you mentioned in your post and I think it consititutes a "cheap shot". (IMHO)

Should paddlers "fear" being sued for online comments regarding a M/R? I would just say they should be "cautious and prudent" in anything they say online - citing what was done, but not engaging in language that could be viewed as a judge as "damaging the reputation or products" of the M/R. I would simply state what happened in the instance but would refrain from "disparaging" remarks or "statements of fact" regarding the M/R that a judge would take issue with.

Fenn Swordfish and Epic Midwing.

Past skis include Stellar SR and SEL, KC Zeplin, Think EVO, and in-between version of Epic V8 Ultra. Jantex Gamma is my sword of pain..though my elbow may force me to a smaller blade now. :-(

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gnome
  • Visitor
9 years 10 months ago #15141 by gnome
Yea it's pretty sad us mere mortals with buggar all money can't get real justice.
A couple years back I bought a ski from up the east coast and the price included the ski,freight and insurance (in righting, text only). It got broken badly the seller said no worries get it patched till the new one arrives. I just pay half the freight to my state (local freight) then I find out he didnt take out the insurance which I paid for so I miss out. Nice!! Theft comes to mind too.
I go to Consumer Protection, they say its a legal matter in regards to a contract so it's out of their hand. I would have to fly up to the other eatern state and go to court. At the end of the day the cost to fly accomadation etc on numerous occasions it would not be viable to do so. Even the laywer said forget it. Where the seller deals from is full of rich business people that have expensive laywer friends, which he see's all the time helping mates get out of minor litigation cases. As indicated the area is known as sharks row.
So all I will say is only buy from a dealer who you know and trust. Get it locally if possible. While talking to the dealer if they make you think there a bit off, go with you gut and walk away.
Due to me not taking it to court I cant say who the dealer is because, you know why. That would be slander and he would have the $$ to take me to court and I would lose again.
The world is oh so fair. For some anyway.
Gnome.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15145 by tony h

interesting story - highlights the dangers of social media for me!

I paddle from this same area & have not met this individual.
Will say that the recent 'slanderous' commentator on this issue came from the same area, so may be related.

The issue for me is there is no way of verifying from this video if there is an actual legitimate claim for warranty - all we have is some one making some claims about an alleged mistreatment.

I know another local from this area had soft spots on a fenn swordfish & ocean paddler replaced it with a new ski without argument.
I would hope that epic would do the same if it occurred, but from this video we have no way of determining this. So without, knowing the credibility of the narrator I don't think we can assume any culpability.

My v10 sport ultra is 10yrs old now with no such problems.

Manufacturers / distributors should have just as much rights as consumers & I don't think social media is always the most reliable or trust worthy source of information.

Yes there are lemons out there, but just as well there are some unethical consumers with unrealistic expectations.

If this guys claims are legitimate he deserves a new boat. If not, he deserves to be held accountable for slander.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15146 by tony h
from narrators website with above youtube video - so am not sure if this guy paddles or looks for issues to broadcast about?
any one know the individuals authenticity?

durianrider.com
www.youtube.com/user/durianriders

About DURIANRIDER : HEALTH ACTIVIST

Exposing the myths & fads in the health & fitness industries. Please share my videos as much/how as you like.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15147 by chucktheskiffie
The guy is a militant vegan. Automatically loses credibility...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15148 by Rob1
I watch the video and don't actually see anything wrong with the ski. May I suggest a certain person who claimed to know everything about skis and was able to reach speeds of 69kph's whilst going backwards maybe behind the video. He clearly had issues with Epic and was always posting negative comments until he was found out to be dishonest and untruthful and has since disappeared from this site.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15149 by tony h
views shared- given it was filmed within a 100m's of this individuals work place, I suspect the suspicion is not unfounded :-(

I have had good dealings with all but one brand (brand no longer exists) of ski manufacturer & usually when presenting legitimate product concerns have only found them to be very helpful.
The local epic dealer has been great to deal with in the past so can only imagine this issue may be more reflective on the clients approach?

We need to remember these ski's are fragile (esp. high performance layups) & prone to deterioration over time.

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15154 by Kayaker Greg
Can't see the soft spots but the cracks around the bailer look real, why would anyone have an agenda if the ski was ok?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #15155 by EK Sydney
Rob1 wrote "May I suggest a certain person who claimed to know everything about skis and was able to reach speeds of 69kph's whilst going backwards maybe behind the video. He clearly had issues with Epic and was always posting negative comments until he was found out to be dishonest and untruthful and has since disappeared from this site."

All I can say is, the shrill whiny voice & manic laugh have confirmed a mental picture I had in my head for years. Thanks for posting!
Last edit: 9 years 10 months ago by EK Sydney.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #15156 by tony h
Good question Greg.
There is only one person who owns a v12 & a fenn SL on the gold coast as far as I know.
As mentioned this piece was filmed within 100m of where he works.
So Darryl Duck aka RAB continues to bash away in his parallel universe.
Why he would do that is a mystery to me Greg?
Possibly the same reason he feels the need to exaggerate about how fast he paddles his ski?
DD has a history (on this forum & elsewhere) of telling mistruths which is a shame as he has some worthwhile perspectives on many issues.

I have the same cracks around the bailer in my epic double & v14, so suspect it is due to some movement at the bailer - certainly doesn't leak or justify the course of action DD has taken!

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend
Last edit: 9 years 10 months ago by tony h.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gingerninja
  • Visitor
9 years 10 months ago #15170 by gingerninja
Replied by gingerninja on topic Re: Warranty on skis, online complaints, etc
Hi , is DD , DD3 paddles sports ? Are they still in production ? Have not heard much about the skis for a while and I put it in the search engine and nothing comes up . Have I missed something ????

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15171 by Rob1
They are not linked in anyway, check geartrade.com.au and you'll find DD3 advertising

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15172 by Physio

gingerninja wrote: Have I missed something ????

Yep

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15173 by tony h
apologies for mistaken impression Gingerninja :-)

DD here is short for Darryl Duck aka RAB / Right Arm Bad - previously the most prolific contributor to surfski.info who was obviously quite intelligent but prone to extreme views & misleading claims!
he has disapppeared from forum in last 6 months

earlier comment on out of circulation brand was relevant to my experience with another brand from South Africa ( red 7) & not Damien Daley

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • gingerninja
  • Visitor
9 years 10 months ago #15174 by gingerninja
Replied by gingerninja on topic Re: Warranty on skis, online complaints, etc
Thanks heaps !
A mate of mines brother has received a new epic elite ( black beauty) and the seam split 2metere only 1 month old. $6000 approx . Apparently not a warranty claim .
Fingers crossed . Sure they will work it out . Got told the epic rep is a great bloke and will help out however he can .
Scary thought tho ..

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15175 by tony h
let's hope for his sake it ends favourably?

these ocean ski's are not designed to handle big breaking surf (esp. high performance layups), so hopefully he was not liable for the damage in this way?

I have heard of ski's across all brands failing under stressful conditions, but do think certain brands are better than others. But then we all know the different brands have their strengths & weaknesses.

With the epic ski's I think the most cost effective layup is the performance layup - bit heavier but extremely durable & easy to repair.

Suspect if one is an elite or competitive paddler the lighter less durable layups would have some cost effective appeal!!

For an intermediate paddler like myself, it is probably better to loose a few kilograms body weight, than spend extra 1-2 thousand on higher performance lighter layups.......

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15179 by Kiwibruce

gingerninja wrote: Thanks heaps !
A mate of mines brother has received a new epic elite ( black beauty) and the seam split 2metere only 1 month old. $6000 approx . Apparently not a warranty claim .
Fingers crossed . Sure they will work it out . Got told the epic rep is a great bloke and will help out however he can .
Scary thought tho ..

So why was this not considered a warranty issue ? Was the ski dropped or something? A product sold in Australia must be "Fit for use" .

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15180 by [email protected]
In my opinion that video is indeed simply RAB putting the boot in.

I did some research on "durian rider" and could find no-one who had ever seen him paddling. And, given what he said on the video, I found it extraordinary that in his prolific writing on the Internet he has never once mentioned paddling.

I contacted him and asked if I could help resolve the issue - and he ignored questions about who at Epic he'd dealt with and requests for the serial number of the ski in question.

No-one at Epic Aus has ever heard of him.

He did mention that Epic told him that "soft spots were normal". No-one from any manufacturer would EVER say that soft spots are normal - so that just set my bullshit detectors working overtime.

I did find out that he and RAB either work together or have worked together in a bike shop - but they definitely know each other.

So yep, my analysis is that RAB got his slimy little pal to make that vicious video clip.

In my experience, every manufacturer sometimes makes a dud boat and every manufacturer makes mistakes in customer service. But by and large most of them are good intentioned (otherwise they wouldn't be in the business). I think it's a really sad thing that these chops can get away with posting their crappy little video. In my experience though, the wheel tends to turn around and they'll get theirs in the end.

The funny thing is though that when I saw the video, it already had 2,000 views on it - and I strongly suspect that RAB sat there for hours clicking on it to make it look as though lots of people had seen it. Pathetic. But given the stunning silence on this and other social media sites, it's hardly been seen at all to date. Let's hope it stays that way.

What really makes me sad is that RAB over the years did actually contribute to various topics.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...
The following user(s) said Thank You: tony h

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
9 years 10 months ago #15183 by tony h
good work Rob - I agree with your perspectives.

RAB's legacy is further soured!

see this link for the provocative nature of the video maker who is obviously not about building positive relationships:
anthonycolpo.com/more-angry-nonsense-fro...rianrider-johnstone/

ski's - McGregor C/R // Nelo 560L // Epic: 1st/2nd/3rdG V10/10L/10 sport, V14, V12, V8, V7, double -v10/v8 // Stellar: SES 1G/2G, SEI 2G // Fenn: double, elite SL, swordfish 1G/2G // Carbonology: vault, atom, flash //hayden spec ski / gibbons oc. ski / red7 / stealth spec/ocean ski / think legend

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Latest Forum Topics