Round shaft indexing... and stuff.

I'm curious what people do with there paddle in terms of shaft indexing. I have an ONNO small/ mid and it has a fairly small diameter round shaft. This is the first time i have used such a small diameter and non oval shaft before and I'm having issues.
One issue is my right hand slides down the shaft over a few minutes. This leaves me with the paddle off center. I don't have this issue with a WW paddle or when sea kayaking. Any slick ideas?

I'm also having issues with the round shaft as well. When the wind blows and its a bit bumpy I'm feeling the need to grip the the shaft firmly or my catch becomes i bit unpredictable. I have always used oval shafts in the past and relied on this indexing for blade orientation. I'm feeling a bit lost with the round shaft in terms of consistency of blade angle on catch when it gets bouncy.

Anyone index there round shafts?.. I did this with a WW paddle by taping a 1/8th inch dowel to the shaft so i could feel the shaft with neoprene gloves on.

Any thoughts on this?...

Bill

I haven't.

But after being told for some time to try making a proper grip by my paddling group, I finally got some tennis racquet grip and put it on my paddle where I normally hold.

WOW what a difference! I should have listened to them ages ago.

Both of the above. But you can make the oval more subtle and also more easily by taping on an arc of poly pipe on the knuckle edge.

Tennis raquet grip tape. Goes on all my paddles. Not just for grip but when grabbing the paddle in a hurry a quick visual check to tell you have your hands placed symmetrically.

The best way to stop your hand slipping inwards down the shaft is to superglue an O ring or similar piece of round plastic about a finger width or two in from where you normally hold the paddle, then cover it with a single wrap of insulation tape. White tape on a black shaft gives a good visual indication as well.

Its smooth enough not to chafe your hands but lets you instantly feel when your hand is slipping in too much.

All of the above are good suggestions. It's certainly nice not to have to grip the paddle too hard to maintain control. I personally use athletic/hockey tape for this but I have pretty calloused hands. IMHO oval or indexed shafts are actually counterproductive however, for 2 reasons. The first is that, unlike a euro blade that is dependent upon the user for it's trajectory in the water and has to be held firm to not flutter, a wing with good technique will fall naturally into its optimal angle of attack at the catch, and this actually changes throughout the stroke. Having an arbitrary index on the shaft basically doesn't allow the blade to seek out this optimal angle and instead encourages one particular blade angle that may not even be close to optimal. I can think of at least 2 paddles with ovalled shafts where I don't feel the oval is at the correct angle for proper use of the blade. Lettman Warp springs to mind (blade is fine, paddle is almost unusable cuz they whiffed on the correct oval angle relative to blade) Not a huge fan of epic for this reason. Moreover, a common misconception is that the lower hand needs a firm grip on the paddle. I find that the opposite is true, the top hand is the firm one that drives the paddle during torso rotation. The bottom hand can/should have a looser grip in the fingers that allows the blade more leeway, not a grip where the shaft is buried deep in the palm as this doesn't allow a "feel" for what the blade angle wants to do. many wings work well with a more open AOA at the catch than the oval/index seems to take into account. I've personally never become disoriented and not known what the wing is doing b/c of not having an index. In short, IMHO, tape is good, racquet grip is good for tactile purchase on the shaft, the o ring idea is great so your top hand doesn't slide down the shaft, but index-oval is actually of little benefit on a wing paddle, except as a comfort to those conditioned to having it. I think with some wings it's difficult to unlock the full potential of the blade unless you allow it to follow it's natural course, whatever that may be. or at least allow yourself to experiment a bit.

I never seem to have a problem with indexing although I run a little grip tape on my paddles just where the knuckles are and wear gloves every paddle for protection against the sun and I don't ever have a problem in salt water. However the other night I went for a paddle in fresh water and for some reason found my right hand moving down the paddle towards the blade on several occasions and my left hand developed a blister on one finger right where the finger less glove finished, the fresh water had a totally different feel to salt water, more harsh where salt water feels softer. Also ended up with cracked heals that night.
The o ring seems like a good idea if my hand was to continue to do this.
Like the above, I tend to have a loose grip, especially as I have a damaged right hand which doesn't close properly.

I tape my paddles because not only does it offer better grip when the nasty powered boats leave oil/fuel residue in the water or if hands get really sweaty, but to me it effectively nullifies and ovalisation in the shaft and agree with champion that a lot of times they just don't gel with some peoples stroke.

Thanks for the replies...

I think i will try some form of grip tape like racket handle tape and the o-ring trick and see what happens. kayakchampeen- and other have swayed me from indexing at the moment. I'm hoping a better grip over all on the shaft will help.

I use to sex way my shaft...... er, put surfboard wax on my WW paddle shaft to keep my hands from slipping around in cold weather. But i think that would be counter productive here..

I will report back if anything helped.

One of the issues with using oval shafts for indexing is that they don't necessarily correlate to the ideal hand position of every paddler.

Depending on your finger length (and therefore finger-joint location) a fixed oval may orient your hand in the wrong position.

Many paddlers (me included) use locator strips to provide a virtual "oval" to the shaft, as these allow an individually adjustable hand-location specific to the anatomy of each paddler.

Fine-tuning the position of the locator takes a little trial and error, but once set, it allows your grip on the bottom hand to be simultaneously more controlled, but also looser, thus minimising forearm pump and allowing the blade angle to follow its optimal path throughout the stroke.

Supplementing this with a simple winding of PVC tape at the inside of your hand position(s) will give you a tactile indication of your ideal position (longitudinally) on the shaft.

Performance Paddles on the Sunshine Coast sell the locators and they are remarkably inexpensive.

kayakchampeen wrote: . . . IMHO oval or indexed shafts are actually counterproductive however, for 2 reasons. . ..

I quoted the theme statement, but I concur with his entire post. It has taken some adjustment, but I've transitioned from oval shafts to round shafts and it is improving my stroke, stability, and hand health (I developed carpal tunnel issues using oval shafts, and the round shafts help me take a looser grip on the bottom hand). I'm currently using an Onno small mid wing, but may add one of the larger Onno's for higher intensity and sprint training. Good explanation, kayakchampeen!

Some feedback on round shaft indexing....and stuff.

I haven't had any problems with indexing with my epic wing. To eliminate hot spots on my hands I wrap foam handle bar tape (for bicycles) on each end of the shaft for each hand and then covering the thin foam bike tape with vinyl "electrical" tape, which is smooth. I think you want less friction on your hands to minimize blisters. My right hand does tend to wander towards the center, which seems strange because because the paddle is "right hand control", however it doesn't seem to a problem.

I don't mean to imply that oval shafts are a problem, per se, but they may be for some people. After using them for many years, I have decided the oval doesn't accomplish anything I really need and for me at least, is counterproductive.

The reason is that the water often dictates the blade path. What feels consistent and solid on flatwater with no current can deteriorate quickly in heavy swell, cross chop or currents and wind. Because of the oval shaft, it never felt solid to me to allow the shaft to roll in the crook of my fingers as the blade twists slightly to maintain its bite in turbulent water. Instead of letting the shaft roll a bit, I modulated my finger grip and wrist angle to maintain the orientation of the oval shaft in the crook of my fingers, and that creates wrist problems for me. It may not for someone else.

Although the round shaft felt very unsteady in my hands when I first went back to using it - and even twisted in my hand a few times causing a dump - it didn't take long to learn to trust the blade's own path and just use the lower hand as a hook. With the round shaft, I can let the shaft roll in a looser grip without modulating the tightness of my fingers or angle of my wrist - the shaft feels consistent and solid in my fingers no matter the orientation of the blade, as long as the blade is pulling on water.

For blisters and slippage, I gave up long ago and wear gloves. It seems that on paddles longer than about 90 minutes, my skin becomes so waterlogged that no amount of callouses will prevent blistering... the callouses just get soft and tear loose. I may just have weird skin - most don't have this problem. Pitcrew Speed Crew gloves are cheap and seem to have the right combination of thinness in the palm and tackiness when wet.

But as always, your mileage may vary, and I'm not saying oval shafts are "bad" - they may be better for some folks.