Paddling frequency and choice of ski

I've read on a few sites advice on the choice of ski relative to days/time paddling. I know that I feel like a far better paddler after I've completed the Avon Descent, but the feeling doesn't last long enough, especially as I paddle less frequently and for shorter time!

Rob recently paddled intermediate boats for a few weeks and found that he had temporarily 'lost' his comfort factor in his Elite ski.

This is from Think: Above all, we recommend a boat that is fun, inspires confidence, and allows you to paddle your best all the time. Don’t be lured into buying the “fastest” boat. What is fast for a pro, may not be fastest, or the best choice for you

Are there any other useful links/advice

Thoroughly agree, and for that reason even though I plan on buying an elite level ski soon I won't be selling the Vault!

Hi Brett/Dicko

How many days per week, on average, do you guys paddle?

Usually twice a week and at a stretch 3 times.

Saturday - usually 12-18km.

Monday - 6-8km of intervals or moderate 11km

If another session it will be a technique session only, keeping heart rate down as I will be on a recovery day from all the other training I do.

In this thread is a quote from Rob Mousley. I guess my earlier comments were not as accurate - Sorry Rob.

Thinking about selling my beloved Mako Elite... I just can't see myself spending enough time in it to get back to the stability that I had before i got into the intermediate boats that I've been paddling for the last two months. I love paddling in big water - and I don't see myself building confidence again in the boat. But what the heck, the intermediate boats are such fun - and I'm as fast if not faster anyway. (A PB tonight would certainly prove that.)

I paddle most days. I usually do about 10kms and try to do 15km's when I have the time. I don't race much and we don't get much swell in the bay where I live. We do get a seabreeze and a lot of chop.

Six months ago I would have felt confident in any ski but after 6 months in the vault I tried a Uno max...no way. It was choppy and blowing 15knots. I cannot believe how unstable I felt. It's gone. Years of practice and I felt like a novice. 1500 paddles wasted.

Having said that, I'm faster in the Vault in all conditions other than dead flat, and if I use a small rudder my speed is the same.
What I like most is that I can't wait to paddle in the morning no matter how much it is blowing. Days when I wouldn't be keen are now just fun.

If you have time to spare, are ultra competitive, young, don't mind falling in, have too much money, then buy an elite ski. I can recommend the uno max. Anything that good looking and that unstable has to be quick.

If you don't tick all the boxes above, buy the glass version, not the carbon, of the intermediate ski you choose and spend the extra $1000 you save on counselling to deal with your feelings of inadequacy.

Ha ha Dicko, you have a way with words

As stated that is why I am keeping my Vault, it just works.....and it gives me a kick every time I beat the majority of the elite skis in any race field....

...as for a skinny, tippy, handful of an elite ski, what can I say, I like a challenge and I beleive it is what I want for those dead flat or river races I have been recently partial too

You two are creating a real dilemma for me. Last year during the winter I was paddling my SES about 4 x a week and was fine most days. Got a little burnt out and started paddling my kayaks again and through the summer I like to mix it up with surfing, kayak camping and enjoying my paddling doing trips etc. But I started to struggle with the SES, some days felt like a beginner again. As I was enjoying my kayaking much more, I did less ski paddling, then felt even more of a beginner whenever I went out in the ski and it was just hard work. Vicious circle. With winter coming on I want to spend more time in the ski with time constraints, but I just are not enjoying my time in it anymore cause its such hard work.
So started to look at my options. Keep paddling the SES, or get myself another ski. Options are Swordfish which are not available till September. Found a glass Vault, but would be more interested in a Hybrid, called a fellow paddler who used to have one and he turned me away from it. Said he was much slower in it compared to his SEL. Told me the paddlers that used to drop him in his Vault and the paddlers that he can now keep up with in the SEL and how confident he is in it. Only problem, none available till September. I just don't want to wait that long but looks like I have too unless I go against his advice and get the Vault. I respect his advice as he has owned just about every ski possible, think he is up to number 27 or 28 skis.

I have an E-V12-U that I've been paddling since early July 2011. During summer and fall months (northern hemisphere) I paddled on average 4 days/week, up to maybe 6 d/w. Winter this year was quite mild so the average went down to about 3 d/w. So far, I've only paddled on the Albemarle Sound (OBX, NC, USA) which can kick up some nice multi-directional chop with a few runners here and there, though it's so shallow (2-7m) here that waves don't get much chance to stretch out. They just bunch up and bounce around. After completing the build of another kayak, I'm going to focus on getting out on the Atlantic.
Anyway, in January, I picked up a trio of nice Bracsa paddles. I've been really enjoying the lightness and power of all three (VII min, max, VI max), but have been concentrating on the VI max lately. This past Colington Wednesday Night Yacht race I was hot on the heels of a 40 footer in 20 knots of wind, using the VI max. Tracking back and forth through its wake and associated chop, I didn't place my blade perfectly one time. I took a high-speed wet entry. Good thing the water has already warmed up nicely. With my Epic mid wing, the swim would not have happened, though with it I possibly could not paddle quite as fast, either. The point is, the paddle choice can be a large part of the stability equation with a so-called "elite" ski.

As the water warms up, I'll most likely average around 4 d/w again in prep for local races. Weekdays I do about 8-10 km with sprints, fartleks, intervals etc.; weekends, about 16-19 km each day with a variety of training and one day of mid-to-high speed endurance paddling.
At this moment in the training year, I do not feel at all wobbly in the V12, in any condition that I’m likely to encounter (max 1m very multi-directional square chop). Perhaps it will be a different story as I get my arse to the ocean.

I've thought about getting the ol' Necky Looksha II out and practicing some rolls, but the V12 is the real dominatrix. I know that if I revert back to the somewhat stable Looksha II (with a very high seat), I will have a harder time having fun in the '12. So here I am, having a blast in the '12.

The SEL is a faster boat... but when it gets ugly I'd rather be in the Vault. AR's results make interesting reading. He's very fit but has a more adventure race background. Whenever the races are flat, he is slightly back in the pack. As soon as it gets lumpy, he is right up the pointy end of the field. Fitness and stability is a beautiful thing.

Using a small rudder on a vault is easy because the boat has such predictable stability. A small rudder on a Vault makes it as fast or faster than most skis. If there is any swell or chop you swap to a surf rudder. It's like owning 2 boats. A glass Vault weighs 13.5 kg. Lightweight and durable. This is also a beautiful thing.

The Vault doesn't have amazing secondary stability like some skis. You know what I mean. You sit in a ski and it feels twitchy but as the ski rolls...clunk...it just stops. The Vault just has very even , very predictable roll. The SES has that twitchiness about it, but has very good secondary stability. The SEL is a bit like that as well.
I think my point is .. you can make a Vault go faster, but you can't make a faster ski more stable....or something like that.

Thanks for the updates guys.
I'm impressed with Brett's 2 days per week with the results he gets - most published here. I guess that quality of training is also important.

Dicko wrote: If you don't tick all the boxes above, buy the glass version, not the carbon, of the intermediate ski you choose and spend the extra $1000 you save on counselling to deal with your feelings of inadequacy.

I'm not sure that $1000 will be enough, especially after my classic paddle 'fun' last year!!

richardh wrote: I'm impressed with Brett's 2 days per week with the results he gets.... I guess that quality of training is also important.

When you have running, cycling, swimming, crossfit training and paddling to fit in a training program you make every session count. And of course the other activities build strength and fitness that is applicable to paddling.

My flat/choppy water have been good but I continue to drop back in the downwind field when the guys I compete against are out building thier downwind skills several
times per week on downwind runs, I can count on one hand how many downwind runs I've done this summer

17km river race tomorrow, looking forward to it!

Snapped my ski last year in 4ft surf and have paddled once only since.Kept up the swimming in between and actually improved a lot.Jumped in a dolphin 580 8 months later in very choppy 3ft/5sec swells intervals,musta been blowing 25 knots,and was amazed at the stability,personal performance was acceptable too,was like hopping on a bike ,you never really forget how to do it.Been very sick this year {ross river} but missing the water.I guess it depends on the water you want to paddle on,if you want to stick to easy entry /exit flatwater paddling go for the lastest lightwieght carbon boat,if you like smashing surf and surfing go for something a bit more durable.BTW the longest time out of the water would make an interesting thread.