Evo II

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12 years 2 weeks ago #5672 by cdo
Evo II was created by cdo
In a recent previous thread we heard from Daryl Remmler stating that the deck would change on all new 2011 models....however it appears in reality that the hull shape of the Evo has also been altered.

To quote a Australian dealer " The stability level of the Evo has been maintained, with small changes made to the rocker at the front of the ski. The tail has also had some attention, with rocker change and some volume removed from the tail. This has resulted in the Evo II being "freer" in the tail, allowing it to change direction more easily, and the increased overall rocker makes it easier to chase runs.
The new cutaways make the paddle entry a lot narrower, allowing the paddler to get a much closer catch, therefore creating more stability, and allowing the paddler to apply more power."


The kevlar layout is no longer an option and both the fibreglass and carbon infused are about 15kg. Certainly the light weight models are not avaialble.

It would be interesting to review the old vs new to really appreciate what the changes actually are and effect in real life paddling.

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11 years 6 months ago #7034 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Re:Evo II
I can't compare to the old ones, but the new ones (Evo II) indeed has very nice cutouts on the sides of the cockpit for a close paddle entry. Contact through my legs with the sides of the cockpit (for boat control) was also very good for me. The ski does seem maneuverable, not sure how it was before, plus I'm new to skis - had no problems moving about when surfing small following seas, but that should not be challenging anyway ;)

The seat width on the Evo II seems just a bit narrower than that on an Epic V10, which is in turn a little narrower than the (new) Epic V10 Sport. So test-sit to see which one fits the best.

To me the stability of the Evo II was slightly *less* than that of current Epic V10 Sport skis. The owner of the Sport who paddled my Evo also felt the same.

The drain drains slowly and at a relatively high speed on flat water but during the one race I did with the Evo II it did an excellent job of keeping all water out of my feet and would audibly suck air often so it was working.

Three things I did notice that did I not like at all: the weight, hull flex, finishing quality.

Weight. Mine was in the fiberglass layup and registered at over 37lb on my scale. While my scale may not be the most accurate out there, on the same scale an Epic V10 Sport in the comparably priced "Performance" layup registered a hair under 30lb (measured with me standing on the scale and lifting the ski, so the error can't be too big). There is definitely a difference in feel lifting the two - the Evo II is noticeably heavier than the Epic.

Flex. I have a rack extension that is about 60" long - just longer than the cockpit of the ski. When placed on that I use front and rear tie-down lines. With the ski (as with my kayaks) I put just a tiny amount of pull on these straps - just enough so there is no slack in the line (I am in no way pulling hard on them). The Evo noticeably flexes in the cockpit area when I do that. The Epic does not - feels stiffer. Which one is stronger? I can't tell from this test nad hope not to find out. I also felt the Evo II flex on waves under me and sort of vibrate when it slaps on the water - does it matter I have no idea.

Finish - mine was probably an anomaly (read my other thread), but the gel coat paint finish was bad (lots of paint bubbles and poor transitions b/w different areas of the boat). Accessories such as the handles were also not perfectly installed (a screw stuck-out/was not positioned where its head would lie flush), the rudder was just a smidgen off-center, the gel coat had one 1" crack on the sides of the cockpit due to air under it (the other gel coat crack one might argue was due to misuse but this one was clearly due to lack of supporting material).

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11 years 6 months ago #7035 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Re:Evo II
Has Think changed factory? The old skis used to have a very nice finish.

:(

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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #7037 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re:Evo II
As already stated in another post on Evo, I am a very happy Evo One owner who would not even consider an Evo 2. As stated before what were Think thinking?
My Evo One actually weighs much less than the stated weight and is almost work of art in fitout and finish. It has also been very durable.
I contrast this to the three Evo Twos I have closely examined. All finishes here were well down on the original and it is obvious that the moulds these hulls hatched from had imperfections. That is there are dips etc. that are not just in the finish. The weight of all these three Evo twos (which included a brand new never put in water boat) was all well over the stated weight. There is a significant weight penality been the new Evo Two and my old original Evo. The fitout of the Evo Two is almost a joke...that front hatch looks like my 10 year old installed it in a big hurry!
I am still curious to know if the hull shape offers any real advantage....all I can say here is the original Evo is reasonably responsive as is with the right rudder attached.
Lastly I can't comment on the flexing...other than to say Evo One is a stiff hull.
Yes they are no longer built in China...the factory has changed.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by cdo.

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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #7044 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Re:Evo II
Just came back from my first "real" paddle with the V10 Sport (as opposed to a short test-paddle). Did about 11 miles (almost half of it downwind) in what was just a little rougher conditions than what I've handled before on the Evo II.

The V10 Sport is definitely more stable - I hardly had to brace and could power it through more waves than I could with the Evo just a couple of weeks ago (and I have not paddled a ski in that period, so I have not gotten better in the mean time). Stability is a double-edged sword so to speak - may let a less experienced paddler go faster and longer (not waste effort on bracing) but may hinder a more experienced paddler. So the Evo might actually be a more "advanced" stable ski than the Sport :unsure:

I also noticed some other things about the Evo II that I thought I liked and kind of contrast with the Sport:
- the drain seems to work better on the II than on the Sport for me. There was always quite a bit of water sloshing at my feet in the Sport today where in the Evo there was almost none most of the time (at least when paddled hard).
- the cockpit is narrower and lower volume overall in the Evo - better for normal/skinny folks for contact with the ski.
- the Evo has a very pronounced V forward of the cockpit - I hardly noticed it slap over waves. The V10 Sport is rounder and had quite a bit of slap paddling against wind chop
- the "surf" rudder on the Evo works quite well (better than the "weedless" one on the Sport). I will be getting the surf rudder for the Sport since it did try to broach on steeper waves and had generally a more zig-zaggy behavior than I think was desirable. With the Evo I never once felt I would broach in the relatively small waves I cought runs on. With the Sport I did broach initially, then got used to it and anticipated what it would do so most of it went away, but I could not control it well across the face with that rudder where with the Evo's bigger one I could.
- the cockpit on the Evo hugged me and I filled it in pretty well - when water would splash over, that had very little effect. In the Sport more water gets over the sides and since there is more room on my sides that water gets in and it feels like all that splashing slows me down.
- the Evo seems to track better. I know I'm comparing it with its more aggressive rudder so may be I'm wrong, but I think it's not just that - the Sport is fatter and flatter in the rear...
- When hit with the paddle (or just by feel), the Epic has a stiff hard feel and sound. It is stiff on the water too. The Evo - kind of mushy; they are not made of the same stuff, obviously.
- the double foot straps that the Evo has, while a little more tricky to get into, seem to give better contact with the boat than the single strap.
- I thought the foredeck sheds water very well and the ski does not stall when the bow goes under while chasing a wave.


Anyway, thought some of that "comparison" may be interesting. I think Think has a winner with the Evo - just needs to figure out that manufacturing quality with the II.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by Kocho.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #8600 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re: Evo II
It at last appears that the Evo II are being finished to an aceptable standard (well at least the carbon ones). Certainly the new paint striped models appear to be a vast improvement on the early Evo II's.
Still not the almost "work of art" as the Evo One but acceptable. The weight of the carbon also appears to be close to the advertised weight. There are some obvious improvements over the original Evo One but some backward steps also. The lack of the pedal micro-adjustmant is a big "why get rid of a brillant feature".
I have never paddled an Evo II so I will not comment on the differences on the water, but I was talking to someone why went from being a glass Evo owner to a carbon Evo II owner and he noted the Evo II was very twitchy compared to the original Evo. Yes some of this might have been the weight of the boat but given that this individual weights 100kg I suspect the weight of the boat would not be a significant issue.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #8608 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Evo II

cdo wrote: One but some backward steps also. The lack of the pedal micro-adjustmant is a big "why get rid of a brillant feature".


Happy to report that this feature is back. Also, the previous finish standards will be exactly as before. I have a container just landed in Australia with customers starting to take delivery of their new skis over the coming days. The proof will be in the pudding, as they say.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #8616 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re: Evo II
That is great to hear Stew. The original Evo has always been a great fun boat......now all we need is Think to produce another boat in between the Evo and the Legend? Sorry Stew I really can't warm to the Legend...those chines give it some odd behaviour in the rough stuff at times.

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11 years 3 weeks ago #8626 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Re: Evo II
I my view the Evo is a fantastic hull with great speed potential. In my mind the Uno is the logical next step up from the Evo if ultimate speed is pursued (and your stability skills are in working order).

I don't have enough bucket time in the Evo II to conclude if it was supposed to complement or replace the Evo I. Stew could may be fill in on this ... but I assume Evo II is faster, better downwind ... at least it has a updated look/paint job and a narrower catch. Thereby, filling any gap between Evo I and the Uno.

Now that the Think [to be named] will be released later this month, I would argue that Think has covered the entire range from beginner to elite.

I agree with cdo, the Legend's behaviour is odd, and struggle to understand why anyone would pick that ski over the Evos/uno.

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11 years 3 weeks ago - 11 years 3 weeks ago #8632 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Evo II
Please explain the odd Legend behavior for those of us that haven't experienced it.

I like the EVO 2, don't know about the original.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson
Last edit: 11 years 3 weeks ago by Rightarmbad.

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11 years 2 weeks ago #8633 by fredrik
Replied by fredrik on topic Re: Evo II
I felt that the Legend was had some unpredictable behavior when out in confused wind waves/chop 2-4 ft from the back quadrant. Larger waves was OK.

If I remember correctly, this was particularly when the water slapped the flattish sides of the hull behind the seat. Anyhow, the primary/secondary stability felt quite OK, but every now and then, it felt like “someone” hit the tail sideways.

The naval architects out there can probably say if it was a hull issue or rather an ability issue :-)

Regardless, for me it was easier to paddle the more (in my mind) predictable Evo and Uno

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11 years 1 week ago #8812 by thebigadski
Replied by thebigadski on topic Evo II
For those who think the EVO II is aimed at an intermediate/advanced beginner paddler you might want to re"think" that thought!!!

On Saturday I was eager to get my demo EVO II out on its, and my first downwind paddle on it.(yes I am a new Dealer for THINK in West Aus) - just making sure I dont get pounced on here!!

Well I'm not going to rant on about how good this boat is in the runners as I would be crucified as being too biased!!

I usually paddle a THINK UNO or Think UNO max and the EVO II certainly is no slouch in classic downwind conditions.............

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11 years 1 week ago #8813 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re: Evo II
No flaming from me theBigadski......my Evo One is a weapon in a big downwind run and still the most fun ski I have ever used. Speeds in excess of 20km are easily achievable.
The following user(s) said Thank You: thebigadski

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11 years 6 days ago #8829 by xen
Replied by xen on topic Re: Evo II
Obviously different for everyone... but I find/found/experienced

+ Evo/Evo II extremely comfortable
+ Evo II Carbon-Kevlar layup notably stiffer and much more direct and responsive than Evo I paddled previously - more noticeable when paddling into swell/crosschop
+ I found Evo II turned easier (not sure if rocker, rudder or my imagination)
+ both pick up swells/runs/wakes pretty nicely
+ finish is good
+ boat seems pretty tough (not as bulletproof as a Fenn, but very robust so far)
+ new neoprene footstraps much more comfortable
+ not having the micro-adjuster is not a negative (though seems this has made a comeback)
+ much faster than the XT fibre glass barge I was paddling
+ cockpit much more snug than V10 Sport
+ drains just fine when you're moving, high gunwales & light construction keeps slop out

- I find it less stable than a V10 Sport in cross chop (might say more abt my lack of ability)
- primary stability isn't as good as most beginner/intermediate boats
- not completely convinced it is faster than a Sport - I think it is (for me) but we're talking low single digit %ages
- sounds stupid (and it has handles bow and stern) but not as easy to carry somehow (unless it is on your shoulder)
- not convinced the webbing is in the easiest place behind you to access stuff
- I kicked the footplate out of synch a bit with 5km to go in a race at the weekend - not sure if a) I hadn't tightened it enough; b) I was trying to push too hard (possible but not probable - because don't think my technique is that good) c) it cd be a weak spot - will retest this weekend...

Bottom line: Carbon-Kevlar Evo II is better than Evo. I love mine because it is so comfortable & I never have any leg issues at all (with them going to sleep/numbness) & I think you actually sit a little higher than some boats so don't bump hamstrings (like I did in my XT - which was great to start with - but this is a great boat to move to...)... but everyone is different... for me, a great boat.

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11 years 6 days ago #8831 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re: Evo II
From my one quick outing in an EVO 11, I would guess that it has the potential to be faster than a V10sport, because when I paddle a V10sport, the nose of the boat moves a little side to side with the stroke like a spec ski, I see no such movement on the EVO.

I may also have been influenced by the slightly less primary stability.

But jumping out of my V10 and directly into the EVO, the first thing I noticed was how easy it was to mount and how solid it felt after being in my V10.

It also seemed to be a little less influenced by water movement than the sport.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 5 days ago - 11 years 5 days ago #8836 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re: Evo II
Xen, Great to hear some positive feedback on the Evo II. You obviously have one of the later boats.......I can tell because I have yet to see an earlier Evo II in which anyone would describe the finish as good! Hopefully that poor start is all in the past for Think.
I am also guessing your Evo one was not carbon or kevlar....again this makes a difference.
Lastly those footplate adjusters will loosen up with use so I susppect one side moved because it got too sloppy.
At last maybe I can consider replacing the Evo One with an Evo II.
Last edit: 11 years 5 days ago by cdo. Reason: typo

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11 years 3 days ago #8867 by jamo
Replied by jamo on topic Re: Evo II
sorry but have to say it.

going going going gone

isn't that what nelo said to every other ski manufacturer in the dragon run and fenn with dawid mocke have said through out the world championship.


great bit of movie though.

and for the record i don't paddle either of the above mentioned ski's infact i tried one one a didn't like it

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10 years 11 months ago #9189 by f0xxee
Replied by f0xxee on topic Re: Evo II
Hi all,

I am based in Hua Hin, Thailand and received delivery of my Evo II last week but unfortunately only 2 days before heading offshore. As such I can't tell you too much about the paddling characteristics of the ski, as I only had a very quick paddle.
What I can tell you:

I was delighted with the finish. Its a good looking boat, and having carried it some distance home with a few stops on the roof of my car it never failed to pull an audience. Even though most (being in Thailand) had no idea what it was, they all agreed it was "suay mak" (very beautiful).

On dismounting the boat from the roof racks, fitting the rudder and having a play with/adjusting the footplates and rudder pedals I was more than happy with the finish in the bucket, the mounts Port and Stbd of the Foot plate and the finish around the small key/wallet well and drain. Also happy with the finish inside the rudder well. No problems with finish at all. (Although I can see it will not take a great deal of effort to scratch the paint, so some cutting compound will be used often it would seem.)

I was also very happy with the efforts of Daryl Remmler who I dealt with directly in getting the surf ski to me landed in Thailand in the first place. Given Thailand was well under water with floods, time zone differences and all conversations being by email, everything came together as planned and I could not be happier with the personal service.

The first paddle:
Let me state here and now I am not a average mid pack paddler. I am a rank, last place tail end charlie who has been smoking 40 a day, (the EVO is part of the quitting process) is near 50 and is about 5kg over weight. The bug to get back on the water (after living on the Sunny Coast of Qld for 20 years) came after sea-kayaking around Phang Nga Bay on the easterly side of Phuket. I loved it. So I bought a sea kayak. Which I loved. But it was sloooooow.
SO I then ordered a Ocean Kayaks Sprinter, which I still have and enjoy when I am bouncing around the rocks and bays near home... It was faster... but not fast enough.
My first day with the EVO II I went to the local beach and it was 30 knots and on shore with a 1.5m chop. Hmmmm. Too much too soon. So I went back to the adjacent lake.
So got in.... paddled 50m and fell out. Ok it was a little more tippy than the old plastic fantastic.
Paddled another K. got tired.... looked around at the Buddha on the hill and fell off again. Completed a long leg of the lake and found my rythme and ... yo... wonderful.
So back home in 28 days and hope that I will be in her every morning until my balance comes back and my fatigue starts to fall away. Its a great sport and Thailand is a great place to paddle.
Thanks to all the posters of tips for newbies too. The videos on how to remount a surf ski were put to immediate use.

Lastly; I would like to thank the people at Stellar and Epic who I also approached for similar "entry level" skis. Both companies followed up emails with diligence, care and professional precision, and in the end I wished I could buy several skis and not let anyone down, but Daryl came in with the best price and lead time and that was what sealed the deal. IN honesty I have rarely had such good service with internet sales as I have had from Think, Epic and Stellar, and are grateful to all.

Foxy.

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10 years 11 months ago #9261 by Stew
Replied by Stew on topic Re: Evo II
All the best with the new ski, Foxy. If you need any assistance or advice, please do not hesitate to ask. Hopefully you can send some photos from Thailand, would be great to see an Evo in a new location.

Cheers,

Stew.

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10 years 11 months ago #9268 by f0xxee
Replied by f0xxee on topic Re: Evo II
Cheers Stew!

At the moment I am in the Sth China Sea where the tail end of the Typhoon that destroyed Mindanao is giving us a long fat swell and 20 knot winds. Perfect for those who know what they are doing on a surf ski. (Myself excluded).

The Royal Thai Dragon Boat races are on at my local lake 500m from home on Christmas and Boxing day and I wish I were there for what is a great regatta. I was hoping for a photo of the Evo II next to a dragon boat just for a little cultcha. I will try to get one when i get home.

I am hoping to be an ex-smoker by the time I get home and get at least an hour in a day on the lake for a week, then in the surf after that, weather dependent.

Will post photos of me upside down at the appropriate time.

Again thanks Stew for handling my original enquiry and getting me on the right path. Appreciated!

Regards,

JF

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