Epic boat pricing

I'm curious about the different prices I see on the Epic V10L elite boats. In the States a V10L elite goes for around $4500 while in Australia the boat is closer to $6000. Given the Oz dollar is almost on parity with the US dollar what's the story here.

Simply, it's what the market pays.

Shipping is a killer for a single consumer to pay, and Epic know that.
They price it as high as they can to maximise profits, as it is their right to do so.

Only thing that will bring it down is if we all buy the competition.

I can't imagine that it costs more to ship to America than Australia, so that leaves the importer as the profiteer.
That is, unless Epic have differing price structures depending on purchase amounts etc.

But yep, it sucks from our point of view and it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

The Stellar's seem to be pushing the price envelope at the moment, so maybe there's hope yet.

With the price so high, it leaves the door open for local manufacture, so you never know what may happen.

Concur with shopping around. I have just bought a new V12 Ultra in Hawaii and will end up quids ahead even after paying to get it shipped back to Aust (have to own it 12months to get it classified as Unaccompanied Personal Effects though).

This is the case with a lot of products over here, retail price in the US is often less than what wholesale price is in Aust. Not sure where the problem lies, don't believe it's with the Aust retailers, more likely companies setting higher prices as they know Australians are willing to pay more. A common argument is that with the greater population in the US, economies of scale allow lower prices however as you can buy an item at retail value in the US and individually ship it to Aust, this doesn't really hold true. Would love to hear Epic's explanation of the price differential.

As previously said, shopping around is probably the only solution. Rather a shame though as this may preclude you buying the boat you really need (aren't all boats a need vice want).

Does Australia impose tariffs on imported goods from China? If so, that may answer your question. As far as I know the US has few, if any, tariffs on Chinese products.

I too have noticed this but I have to say that its not limited to Epic. All of ski prices in Australia seem to be considerably higher than in the US. Even the Aussie-made skis, such as the Aussie Fenn, the DD3 Albatross, and the Ozfltye R21 seem to be priced much higher than comparable skis in the US. Not sure what the reason is but it doesn't seem to be limited to the big manufacturers or skis made in China.
Furthermore, this trend does not seem limited to skis... I was considering giving a Bennett Wing Paddle a try but gave up the idea when I noticed that the cost, without shipping or customs, was $200 more than my Jantex costs here in the States. That was that.

The local boats are dear because they are boutique, have to pay real wages and have to abide by work place health and safety rules.

There is no excuse for big manufacturers using third world labour rates.

The S. African skis aren't made in China, yet I was quoted $3100 for a Fenn Elite Carbon 5 months ago here in the States. Prices are similar for Custom Kayaks Carbon skis and Carbonology Carbon skis. Nelo skis are made in Portugal, yet I can buy their equivalent, in regards to layup, to your "boutique" skis for $3100, $1500 to $2000 less than you're paying for those skis. I can buy a comparable Huki, handmade in California, for around $3000, again $1500 to $2000 less than you're paying for those skis. I suspect that the people at Huki and Nelo earn "real wages" and have to adhere to OSHA rules and regs (or their European equivalent). And all of these prices are within a couple of hundred dollars of similar weight/lay up Epic, Stellar, and Think skis here in the States.
Additionally, in a related field, I can buy a custom-made Onno paddle, handmade by one very cool guy here in the States for $400... The equivalent Bennett paddle is, excuse me, $695. I bought a Jantex Gamma Ultralight brand new last year for $425, and I don't believe their paddles are made in China. I can buy a S. African made Orca Flex paddle for around $300.
So other, non-"third world" manufacturers are able to make skis and/or paddles and sell them here in the States at a price that is competitive with the Epics, Thinks, and Stellars of the world.
If you want to discuss the 'made in China' issue, should that equipment be priced lower, should we support it by buying their products, etc... that is another topic.
The issue at hand is ski cost in Australia versus, well, everywhere else, and it seems to hold pretty true across the board regardless of where the skis are produced. The question remains why is this?

Just out of curiosity I did a little research.

Australian tariffs on Chinese goods runs between 3.5 and 5 percent. So that is not likely to be the major factor in the higher prices, though it may be a minor contributing factor.

What I found interesting, and it may explain the high cost of Australian made surf skis, is the high material cost of carbon fiber. A comparison of retail prices, recognizing that wholesale will be roughly 40% less, of similar carbon fiber cloth shows that in Australia the cost is roughly three times higher. One yard of cloth is roughly $30 in the US, while in Australia it is $89. Yes, I know not all surf skis are carbon fiber but if fiberglass and kevlar have similar trends then may be this is the issue. Why is material cost so much higher?

With that said, this still doesn't explain or answer the original question. For that we'll probably need a real insider willing to provide a truthful answer.

All 'want it' goods are overpriced in Australia.
Doesn't matter what sport it is, they are overpriced.

Running shoes are ridiculous compared to US.
Climbing gear wholesale prices are dearer than US retail prices.

Importing in Australia is far more lucrative than selling retail.

Labour is THE biggest cost in producing a surf ski in Australia.

SA have access to (don't mean to be, or sound racists) black labour.

European manufacture nelos, are a big established company with world wide distribution.
I think you will find that they simply priced to match the other manufacturers in the market.
I bet that if in two years time their boats are winning heaps, their price will increase to match their premium price kayaks.

The made in China issue is a complex and interesting one.
Many manufacturers have headed down that track to save costs because the generally accepted wisdom in managerial circles is that it is cheaper.
Many have found that in the long run it works out dearer.

The successful companies that manufacture in China, own their own factories.
The only way for them to control their product.
They pay big wages for overseers from their own country to keep it all under reigns, or do it themselves.

The gains are in cost of factories, less regulation and often sweetener deals by the local government and cheaper labour.
The problems, are less than ideal dealings with suppliers substituting products, poaching of trained staff and the threat of copycat manufacturers using your intellectual property.

I'll bet that if the secrets of the Australian retail chain are laid bare, that the importer will always be the source of expensive imported product in Australia.

The market has established that we are stupid enough to pay as much for skis as we do.
Only when one of the guys in Australia goes out chasing market share by discounting, will anything change.

But they probably won't, because it has already been proven that we will pay this much for the product.
We buy the boat we want. Not necessarily the cheapest.

Most Australian manufacturers are very small operations.
I don't think that any of them want to make the step up to major manufacturers when they can live the lifestyle they want as a small manufacturer, making quality product in small numbers.

I honestly believe that importers in Austalia have underestimated the true potential of the market in this country.
The high price of skis here is the barrier to huge market growth.
We have a huge ocean based population with a generally reasonable income.

There should be on way that a small Aussie manufacturer can match the economy of scale of a great big one.
The fact that they can shows where the problem lies.

While ever the prices remain high, there will always be a door open to new manufacturers to catch the sleeping ones out.
Just have a look at how many brands are now available, it's incredible really how many new ones there are.
Either there is going to be a huge market explosion or a thinning of the ranks of producers.

What really needs to happen in Australia, is for a local manufacturer to come up with a good winning design, an original not a copy, put some of our great athletes in them, and then be prepared to scale up to match the imports.
Then the only way for imports to compete will be on price.
Big dollars to do though, so it probably won't happen in our conservative climate.

You make some interesting points in regards to the Aussie market, its potential, etc... Not living in Australia, I can only assume you are right on some of them.
Again, the 'made in China' topic is a whole other ball of wax that stands on its own as a topic.
I'm sure that labor costs of ski manufacturing in Australia is a big cost. This still doesn't explain why their prices are so much higher than those of Huki and Nelo, who manufacture their skis in the US and Portugal respectively, and have similar labor/safety costs, etc...
I understand your point about Nelo. Yes they produce a lot of boats, but that also leads to more employees, bigger factory costs, advertising costs, sponsorships, etc... No doubt the current market drives their ski prices to some point, but I suspect the prices are valid. To say that they are just going to change their prices based on wins, etc... is merely speculative. Regardless, they are producing a quality product at a competitive price that is as well made as any on the market, be it from a manufacturer small or large.
As for the small Australian manufacturers, if these prices are truly what they have to charge for their skis, they are pricing themselves right out of any chance at having their skis sold anywhere else in the world. I know they would like to have their skis sold elsewhere and expand their market, but their prices are a huge limiting factor. Again, $1500 over another small company like Huki for a ski (or Bennett's $300 over an Onno for a paddle) seems to be quite a gap to explain.
If it's simply based on what they think or know you guys will pay for a ski, well that stinks, and I agree with you that they are being short-sighted and likely pricing themselves out on a much larger market.

Hello mckengmsurfski , I own a factory in Australia that manufactures skis (mostly spec) in Australia , I can tell you from MY experience that 1/2 my sales costs is Labour , 1/4 is materials and 1/4 are overheads , so therefore I cannot charge any less than I presently do.
I have also never seen a Huki here that was not made in China , In that country Communism IS keeping the workers wages low and pollution is the only thing that can stop that country/factory IMO , Also Portugal is not in Europe and does not pay "European" wages but it has promoted its products very well and the costs of that promotion are borne by all purchasers of that "brand"
As to Bennett's they retail 3 or 4 different manufacturers paddles , either Meek(australia) Jantex (Slovakia?) Epic (china/USA) Muir/Mako? (australia)
I generally think that when a person imports a (container of)ski(s) to Australia the retail price is set by the local competitors price structure and very little to do with the (wholesale) costs incurred. Flame away !!!

ps I have to head off to work now in my 10 year old car....

Latman, "Portugal is not in Europe?"

Not sure about that. Last I checked Portugal is the western most country in Europe and is part of the European Union (EU).

Latman,
No flaming from me. What I'd really like is to figure out a way to get to Australia for a paddle in warm weather, then we could chat about all of this over a beer afterwards.
I also drive a 10 year old car (that I hope to get 10 more years out of)... I'm assuming this was to point out that you're not getting rich off of your surfski business? At no point was I ever under that illusion, but I understand your point b/c people also make the mistake of thinking I'm getting rich from my line of work as well, which I am not.
I know nothing about Hukis in Australia. The ones I have seen here in the USA and the ones listed for sale on the Huki website are handmade in California, not in China.
My point with that was only to illustrate that the price of a custom ski handmade in the USA was the same as all of the other manufacturers that sell in the USA, and that the price differences seem to translate almost exactly when looking at costs of the skis of the larger manufacturers and the smaller Australian ski manufacturers ($1500 to $2000 more versus comparable US ski prices). That, to me, seem like a large gap in price between 2 similar in products, one being produced in the USA, the other in Australia.
The Bennett paddle I am speaking of is a 'Bennett' Brand adjustable carbon mid-wing paddle that they list on their site at a price of $695. That is WAY more than we pay in the USA for comparable paddles, again about a $300 price difference.
Again, my whole point in bring these things up is not to say that you or anyone in Australia is right or wrong, but to merely point out that it is not just the Epic brand (which was the premise of the beginning of this thread), but the cost of skis in general in Australia that seem considerably higher than those in the USA and elsewhere.
If you are correct in saying that the prices are set by the importers to match those of your and other local builders' prices, then its not just Epic that seem to be doing this, rather it has set the prices in general in Australia quite high.
Oh, and know that why I am curious about this is for selfish reasons, b/c I'd love the option of buying a Bennett paddle and/or an Australian-made ski at a competitive price here in the USA, but that doesn't seem likely to happen.
Personally, with all of this being the case and the prices in Australia basically being equal, if I were in Australia, I'd buy an Australian-made ski rather than paying the same for an imported ski, plain and simple. That would make this thread pretty much null and void, no?

This thread I started obviously has certainly shown one thing for sure, and that is I'm not the only one who sees that there are some issues with local pricing of certain brands.

Epic price structure aside, which irks me no end( after having bought 1 ultra and 2 elites), the way I see it is that the the price of other import skis has been back calculated from what it would cost for an individual to buy a single ski direct, say from South Africa, ship it out, pay the import duty, and clear customs plus add on profit of about $500. This has the end price of a carbon boat at around $4300.
Now I don't mind this structure because the $500 or so extra I pay outweighs the risk of a damaged boat in a container or on the deck of a cargo vessel. I can see the boat before I take delivery and there is hopefully some recourse if the boat is sub standard.

I would really have hoped to hear an Epic response on this issue.

the ocean ski racing in australia is experiencing tremendous growth.

this market opportunity must becoming increasingly appealing for local ski manufacturers as most australians would like to by australian products.

australia arguably makes the best spec surfskis in the world, so suspect when someone takes the bull by the horns we will get a great quality product.

i imagine this would be very competitive with imported brands with the added advantage of personal after sales service which is the biggest drawback of imported brands (for me).

i do think the focus in australia should be on the beginner & intermediate skis first as that is surely the largest potential market.

unfortunately material costs may never make the australian skis appealing to american markets.

There is a parallel thread going on at the moment on a Victorian rock climbing site.

Climbing is even worse, with some prices still double that of the states.
Because of this, a significant number of climbers, including me, now buy overseas.

My last purchase bought carabiners from the states that cost $43 a piece here, landed here for less than $14.

Now that is just a f ing ripoff.

Good news is that the importers are now finally starting to respond as their market evaporates.
The last month has seen roughly a 25% drop in prices.

I so wish we could ship a ski as easily as lightweight climbing gear.

I think the answer may be to simply get together with a few you know who want new ski's, make a discounted purchase using multiple buying power, and get them shipped together to further save costs.

Either that, or simply just stop buying them until they drop the price.
Everybody hold off for 6 months and see what happens to the price.

It's almost worth just loading up a container myself and see what happens.

Got the stellar ses on friday-delivered for a grand cheaper than the equivalent epic v10l -they threw in the extra flat water rudder plus the tough carry bag-raced it on Saturday-its fast-came third against a bunch of quick k1 guys-was over the moon.

What layup?
Did you really compare similar spec boats?

If so, well, says something doesn't it.
$1000, that's a big difference.....

same spec-I just came from a new v10 sport which I unfortunately smashed into ten peices (two months old)when I came to greif in angry surf a month ago.insurance was promt and the reason I got into the stellar was that I soon realised that I was too light for the sport as it used to slap around too much going upwind in particular.tried the v10l-too tippy-tried the ses-not much tippier than the sport-in fact Im sure the secondry is even better than-I had it in the waves today-still had the flatwater rudder on as I was goin down the creek-but there was a great little southeastely calling my name so I tied a rope on my leg and hit it- soon wished I had the surf rudder on as there was little to no steering in some cases but what I did learn out of this was that when the boat was wave steered sideways and was up on its side-I could still confidently carry on.it was pretty cool-Anyways the v10 l would have been 3800 plus 150 for rudder plus 100 for aftermarket cover -instead I got the lot (ses advantage) for 3000.I like it.

outriggerbev wrote:

same spec-I just came from a new v10 sport which I unfortunately smashed into ten peices (two months old)when I came to greif in angry surf a month ago.insurance was promt and the reason I got into the stellar was that I soon realised that I was too light for the sport as it used to slap around too much going upwind in particular.tried the v10l-too tippy-tried the ses-not much tippier than the sport-in fact Im sure the secondry is even better than-I had it in the waves today-still had the flatwater rudder on as I was goin down the creek-but there was a great little southeastely calling my name so I tied a rope on my leg and hit it- soon wished I had the surf rudder on as there was little to no steering in some cases but what I did learn out of this was that when the boat was wave steered sideways and was up on its side-I could still confidently carry on.it was pretty cool-Anyways the v10 l would have been 3800 plus 150 for rudder plus 100 for aftermarket cover -instead I got the lot (ses advantage) for 3000.I like it.