V10 elite pinholes and resin discolouration

I have a V10L elite and its a beautiful boat, however I am primarily using my carbonology atom. The V10 is poised waiting when conditions suit. This particular boat has only had a few hours paddling ( don't say it!)

My previous V10L elite ( purchased 3 years ago) started showing discolouration of the resin and in one case immediately after I had placed a race decal on the boat. A milkiness of the resin started/occurred within 5 months. It was always garaged and kept out of the sun.

I later sold this on and heard that the boat developed pinholes ( no gel coat?).

I wouldn't expect a $6000 boat to have these issues and my question to other owners and Epic is whether they view this as acceptable and over what period do they warrantee the integrity of the hull and resin. Was this a function of the resin used or faults in manufacture?Can all owners expect this and if it happens what can be done about it?

Funny you should post this.
I just saw a new boat that was withheld from delivery by the seller because of exactly the same thing.
It also had a rather poorly lumpy/fixed/patched ?? bow.

Not something that should have even left the factory.

Maybe the milkyness is irrelevant, would love to hear from somebody that really new about these things.
Can the sticker adhesive react with the epoxy? Is it an issue other than cosmetic?

But pinholes? Not acceptable.

Are they really pinholes, or just that light can shine through?

If you submerge the boat, you would see the pinholes bubble, if not, then they are really just cosmetic and their advertising blurb even says that there may be some cosmetic blemishes.

A mate of mine had this happen to his carbon pushbike.It was replaced by the company.The thought was that there was moisture under the clear probably from humidity or inside the frame and when it got hot the moisture made its way to the top showing as a milky finish with pin holes.

I have a Fenn - and was really disapointed in the finish - showed a mate who had one who said " thats nothing look at this", so your right pump them out and get them over.

Nothing we can do accept wait watch the local ( australian ) makers take them on.

Best send it back now.May not effect the performance but you paid good dollar and a poor finish will never sit right in your heart and then when you try and sell it how low are you prepared to go as the finish will have to effect the resale.

I have a new V12 Elite. I was told not to expect perfection in the finish. They weren't kidding. It's got light spots in the Carbon and a small bubble in the carbon on the hull. Can't imagine that's going to be good. Also it's suppose to be 20lbs and it's 23lbs, so I paid 1200.00 more than the ultra and got the same weight. Now it's stiffer and sure looks great in the water, but I've been pretty much told it's a 2 year boat and not to expect much more. That's a bummer. I haven't seen any pin holes yet. I'd also have to say the cover for the boat they send is the biggest joke of it all. It's way too big and wears the finish so bad I have to put a "sock" on the boat before the cover so it doesn't wear a hole in the super thin boat. I do love the boat, but for what I paid would expect alittle more. Would I buy it again, probably but that's me. Chaz

It's a two year boat, don't bother with the cover.....

I think for most people, not elites, that the red nose has gotta be a better proposition.
I'll guarantee that you are carrying more excess blubber that the weight difference.
Take some time off work, train more, loose th blubber, faster and you get to work less and own a boat that lasts longer.
As pretty as an all carbon boat is, you bought it with your heart not your head.

Rightarmbad wrote:

It's a two year boat

Glad others have that much money to throw around, I guess there are other more expensive sports

Rightarmbad wrote:

I think for most people, not elites, that the red nose has gotta be a better proposition.

Spot on, I wont buy a boat now without taking my scales with me, as I have mentioned earlier my current glass boat weighs the same as a performance V12

I was hoping to get an idea from racing this season with the V10L whether this boat would be worth upgrading to a red nose but due to the slow shoulder injury recovery I will now give it until next season, but I reckon it's a safe bet getting to know a boat in the heavier lay-up and then springing for the lighter lay-up once you are happy that the other aspects of the boat are what you need

Just looking around the web at racing yacht carbon fibre applications, they seem to believe that they have designed for a 25 year lifespan.

So obviously it is only from a perspective that our skis are realistically being under built to save weight, that the life span is supposedly shorter.

I make ski's and know a bit about this stuff , If a craft is made of Epoxy resin it can/will get white/cloudy if moisture/humidity is trapped in the outside layers and can be seen , If no Gelcoat is used it will be lighter but the fibre will "migrate" to the surface over time and quicken with exposure to the Sun/UV resin. Lots of people are concered with weight and weight/price but there is very little thought about durability /repairability .BTW Kevlar and Nomex are difficult and therefore expensive to repair and Clear carbon is impossible to "match" the weave.

Did I read that right?
You said that the fibres will migrate to the surface?
Surely not!
I'd like to think that they are pretty much set in place.
From what I read, the carbon has no disliking for UV, it is the resin that is affected. Hence the discolouration.

I've been googling this subject and there seems to be a lot of hearsay out there.
Some manufacturers say that epoxy is no good in UV and that polyester is fine.
Others say it is the other way around.
Yet others say it doesn't matter because additives are used to UV stabilise them no matter what you use.

Looking at composite raw materials suppliers is no better.
Seems that there are some material suppliers out there that have much better reputation for their products than general.

Epic has been named as one of the ones using the best.
May explain why they are happy to have raw carbon boats and not hide them under a heavy layer of gelcoat.
Being raw, any imperfections can be seen, maybe that's a good thing.

I haven't found anything to suggest a loss of strength or longevity because of cloudiness.
My search continues.

Tend to agree with Latman that the cloudiness has to do with moisture under the clear or the gell coat,different day different humidity.May not effect performance but looks terrible,shouldn't happen and will have trouble convincing a prospective buyer that its all ok to have a cloudy finish when your asking good dollar.My other thought re pin holes is that air bubbles are trapped in the epoxy and as they expand in the heat the break to the top.Sometimes see it in fishing rod bindings where the builder didn't mix the epoxy well enough and left bubbles in the mix.

The migration to the surface is what it looks like , the epoxy resin is actally disappearing and the fibres are staying in the same place , with Bicycle frames and some other clear carbon parts they are coated with a layer of clear gloss polyurethane paint that offers UV and some contact protection. 2 pack urethane spraying is very lightweight but labour intensive (Very expensive in 1st world countries) and Toxic to people and the environment(no problem in China)
Yes carbon fibres have no problems with UV but clear Kevlar goes from "yellow" to brown (the outside of it anyway) Kevlar is actually not as stiff as Fibreglass (but it is very tough) and that is why Epic use it with a 3mm Nomex core (the stiffness comes from the core thickness)
A lot of pinhole issues come fom the intersection areas of woven fabrics where there is no resin present. even when a gelcoat is used (in-mould) you can still see if there is resin "missing" from those intersections, and even if you spray LPU (Linear Poly Urethane) afterwards any pinholes would not fill up and still be visible(they have to be prefilled with resin and a brush and then sanded smooth before painting)