V12 dreaming! Whos got one and what do you think?

Loyal to my V10L, i now have the V12 and can't get enough of it.
My local is Port Credit, Ontario, Canada. Best swells i get are fall and spring storms. Summer long is flat water, amazing how flat Lake ontario can be!
Anyways comments welcome.

I Just bought a V12 Performance. Then I strained a muscle in my neck/back so I'm yet to take it for a good run. It just sits outside my TV room window where I can only dream about paddling it! My Physiotherapist said I can go for a light paddle this weekend so I'll be happy to give an opinion then, can't wait!

I upgraded from a 22kg SLSA spec ski

Mart

How much difference do you find between the V10L and the V12, and in what ways?

I really struggled over my decision between these two boats. IMHO the V12 has less primary but more secondary stability than my V10L. Only reason I went the V10L was price, about $1000 cheaper for boat that weighed the same (glass versus performance lay-up).

Interested to hear your opinion also Andrew!

I was planning to buy a V12 performance layup, but my dealer had a new-old-stock V10L Ultra he wanted to sell, and gave me a price better than the new V12 Performance (plus the V12's were out of stock @ Epic). As a racer himself, he felt the V12 might be a touch faster, but the Ultra layup V10L would be better for popping in the shallows due to the lighter weight (compared to the performance layup V12). At any rate, I couldn't pass up the offer and picked up the V10L. I've been very happy with it, but still wonder sometimes how much real difference there is between the boats. I have a sneaking suspicion the flush bailer of the V12 may account for most of the flat water speed improvement claimed by Epic.

I have owned and paddled a V10L Ultra for close to 2 years and loved it. For the past 8 months I have paddled the V12 Ultra and now this is my ski of preference.

For me the flat water speed according to my trusty Garmin is pretty much as Red Pepper suspects, slightly faster with the venturi shut but about the same open. It is only about 0.1 to 0.2 kph faster on flat water distances above 10ks (at an my race average of just over 12kph), but in a sprint the V12 appears to have up to 0.8kph more top speed.

As with AR Convert I have also found the primary stability to be less than the V10L, but the greater secondary has saved my bacon many a time in rough ocean conditions when the 10L would have had me swimming.

Learning to trust the V12's greater secondary when the primary makes it feel livlier took some time.

It's no trouble in the flat but out in the ocean swell and chop it took me a good 2 months to get comfortable with it. Which is worth noting for any one that makes a decision after a 5min paddle. Stick with it and you will be rewarded.

Initially I tried the V12 when they first came out for about 2 weeks and happily went back to the V10L as I did not believe I could handle it in the rough (with the livlier primary) as well as my V10L & I had trouble working out the different way they handle.

I have now pretty much worked out the technique differences of the 2 when chasing runs.

The wider tail of the V10L means that you wait for that feeling of lift from behind and then power on late using the lift to accelerate. This still works well enough when you are tired.

On the V12 you look for the hole forming infront of you and go early using its extra top speed to power into the hole. The V12 then rewards you by carrying slightly more speed on the run and for longer (helping to link the next one) getting ahead of the V10L but can wear you out if your timming is off and does not work so well when you are tired or not fit.

If you paddle the 12 like the 10L and try to go late when you feel the lift, the narrower tail and more nose volume does not give you as much lift from behind you may miss the run.

2 distinctly different techniques but I guess you get used to what you paddle if you paddle often.

Just to check my prefference again, I paddled the V10L the other day and whilst it is still a great ski they just do things differently and I could not quite nail my technique and timming as I now can in the 12 in the rough or flat.

For the record I am 175cm tall and 78kg. My V10L Ultra weighs in at 10.5kg and my V12 Ultra is a little heavier at 11.5kg.

Thanks for the info. As primarily a flat-water racer, I'm interested in the flat water speed of the boats, and it appears the V12 has a small advantage. One aspect that I prefer in the V10L, however, is the smaller bow and somewhat rounded shape that seems less susceptible to cross winds and head winds. Which leads me to wonder if I should pursue a V12, or possibly remove the fixed bailer in the V10L and install a canoe bailer such as the V12 uses. The closeable bailer also has the advantage of keeping water out of the footwell - a real advantage in the winter. It would be interesting to know if anyone has tried changing the bailer in a V10 and what the results were.

Very astute call on the V12 versus V10L bow/nose.

Now here comes the Sunday night red nectar infused rant

I had been looking quite closely at this as IMHO it seems that up until a few years ago most of the competitors and hence most of manufacturers were looking at downwind performance.

It's great to see the manufacturers have got it that there are others forms of surfski racing As a serious adventure racer and "sometimes join it other events" racer I am after what fits the bill, the fact that Oscar from EPIC stated "Greg and I wanted to make a surfski that was faster on flat water than the V10 and would excel in small runs and chop" really got me interested in the V12.

Many of the V10 paddlers I know from the AR scene that have had thier boats a few years are now contemplating a switch to the V12, V10L, Carbonology Atom, and the myriad of other boats that are competent flat water/circuit racing boats.

Since joining this forum I had started to get the impression that there were some old school members who weren't very open in thier thinking, I'm very happy to see others coming onboard and contributing thier experience.

Perhaps there has been a tall poppy syndrome in the surfski paddling community involved in forums fostering a reluctance to give an opinion

As the website continues to grow the opinions of us that are relatively new to the sport and remember what it' like to transition from a plastic to the beginner boats, to the intermediate and then onto those beasts that require a keen mind and absolute commitment to training will be the one's that continue to attract those not so experienced into the sport and thier next boat purchase

Looking forward to seeing the AR racers in their very fast and very tippy boats paddling in the 25kt SE that is normal for Augusta during November. During last years event we were spoilt by the weather. What we had was not a normal Augusta day. Your average AR racer doesn't spend enough time in the boat to deal with extreme conditions. Stability will always beat speed in dodgy conditions.
The trouble with adventure races and bridge to bridges etc is that the course is set. If you have to paddle 14kms in beam chop, so be it. Downwind races swap direction depending on conditions, so buy a fast boat and you'll probably get to use its full potential. The choice for adventure racing probably needs to be more prudent.
Oscar (not Walter) also reckons if you have to brace or miss a stroke going over boat wake you're probably in the wrong boat.

You are spot on there Dicko, hence the reason I was training 3 times a week in as choppy conditions as I could muster before my crash.

I spoke to a few died in the wool paddlers last year who were hoping for nastier conditions so they could really take advantage of thier ocean going skills, perhaps they will get thier wish this year