New Epic buckets

I am looking for some info on the current generation of epic buckets. I have paddled the v9 and v10 g3 and absolutely love those buckets. The high seating position does wonders for my stroke and my back and the butt comfort is awesome. They might be my favorite bucket ever of any brand. By contrast I did not love the v12 g12 bucket as I just could not get forward over my stroke. It felt like something in the shape was preventing me from rolling my pelvis forward. I have not sat in v11 or the new v12 g3. Does anybody know how those two buckets compare to v9/v10g3 or the prior v12? I Would love to try them for myself but I live in a part of the world were elite skis can only really be demo’d if you purchase them sight unseen. Thanks!

V12g3 vs. v10g3 is night & day! V12 being much higher and much more on top of the stroke. I have to pad the V10 2cm or more to get a similar feeling (and then it's almost as tippy as the V12 without the other benefits). The V12 bucket is also a lot narrower, works fabulous for me as I need side pads in the V10 in order not to slide left&right. The V10g3 is a great hull but the seat spoils it for me, all the padding I need is annoying in the long run. Obviously folks with the appropriate butt size will feel exactly the opposite!

For DW the V12 has other benefits (and drawbacks), I especially like the higher sidewalls which let me paddle through messy wave-tops without getting swamped. Of course, they also make remounts more interesting...

Now if only epic could get their act together and produce sub 10kg pre-preg boats!

NB: you have a 550 in your signature, I have a 550 gen1 M/L and it's seat is very comparable in width to the V12g3, perhaps a smidge narrower.

Interesting about the v12 having a higher seat than the v10. I would really have to try it i think. Good to know that they are not the same. I would love to try the new v12. If it surfs better than the g2 v12 it must be really good.

If you come to Santa Barbara you're welcome to try v10g3 and v12g3 side-by-side

I don't know about "surf better than the v12g2". I have not had the chance to paddle them side-by-side, I paddled a gen 2 for a bit over a year, then had a 2 month hiatus, and then have been paddling the gen 3 since. The gen 2 is longer, it feels longer, it also feels like it has more rolling momentum. I wouldn't be surprised if the gen 2 carves better diagonally on large waves, but see below. The gen 3 is definitely more agile. It's hard for me to be sure without side-by-side (and identical rudders).

All I know is that I really love the gen 3. I don't know what "surfing well" really means, except that I never feel like "what? why did the boat not get onto this wave?", it's more like "whoops, how come I hopped over that wave so easily?". The agility also makes it a ton of fun.

The only thing I'm not at peace yet is when I'm going at 45 degrees to smallish waves (like 1ft.5 - 2ft) and I have to apply quite a lot of rudder pressure to keep the nose down. I'm using a DK high-chord semi-weedless rudder stretched to 8" (the most typical is 7") and I'm not sure how much of the problem is wrong positioning on the wave (i.e. lack of skill), wrong rudder, short boat, or unreasonable expectations. I had the big epic 9" weedless on the gen 2 and that's a way more massive rudder, so I'm probably comparing rudders, not boats...

Hey Zach, I paddled both the 2G and 3G V12, and loved 2G, and liked the 3G which was just a smidgeon tighter - but I didn't care for the twitchy personality of the 3g V12 ski. Both were my favorite buckets until I tried the NK Nitro and it was a revelation in comfort / ergonomics relative to paddling posture. For reference: I am 6'3' / 210# / 32" waist with big quads (in a past life I was an elite cyclist).

After switching to the NK and then comparing numerous buckets, I have become obsessed with the transition at the back of the bucket from lower to upper. For example; the Vega Flex, Think Uno Max, Fenn Elite S Fennix have very abrupt transitions that all create chaffing issues for me. Where as the Nelo's are so laid back I don't feel connected at all. Too steep and the bucket chaffs bad. Too relaxed and I have connection issues that undermine my foot and paddle pressure. The V12 used to be my favorite, but the NK Nitro changed that on many levels. Superb ski.

tve wrote:

The only thing I'm not at peace yet is when I'm going at 45 degrees to smallish waves (like 1ft.5 - 2ft) and I have to apply quite a lot of rudder pressure to keep the nose down. I'm using a DK high-chord semi-weedless rudder stretched to 8" (the most typical is 7") and I'm not sure how much of the problem is wrong positioning on the wave (i.e. lack of skill), wrong rudder, short boat, or unreasonable expectations. I had the big epic 9" weedless on the gen 2 and that's a way more massive rudder, so I'm probably comparing rudders, not boats...

Have you tried going to a much smaller rudder in downwind? A couple of years ago I wanted to see how much impact the rudder leverage had on my surfing vs boat speed for over-gliding, and it was shocking to see how much faster I could go with a smaller rudder (even in big conditions). I've since moved away from steep and deep rudders, and go for swept elipticals in the 5 to 6" range. Data wise; that was about a 15 to 20 second per km change: went from 3:50ish splits to 3:30's in modest to big conditions. I think that less abrupt turning made it easier to keep the ski traveling at maximum possible speed.

"I Would love to try them for myself but I live in a part of the world were elite skis can only really be demo’d if you purchase them sight unseen".

That's usually the case for me too. I got super lucky when Cliff Roach (Goodboy Vbars) was kind enough to let me try his v10g2 and v12g2. I liked the v10g2 and loved the v12g2 except for the v12 bucket. Like you mentioned, there was something about it that sort of pinched my hips if I was rotating correctly. I was worried when I bought my v10g3 sight unseen that it was going to be the same. The bucket ended up being fine on the v10g3 (for me).

I have never seen a NK boat in person, but they look amazing. If the seating is as good as my v10g3 it sounds like a fantastic boat with the pre-preg carbon construction.

Cryder wrote:

Hey Zach, I paddled both the 2G and 3G V12, and loved 2G, and liked the 3G which was just a smidgeon tighter - but I didn't care for the twitchy personality of the 3g V12 ski. Both were my favorite buckets until I tried the NK Nitro and it was a revelation in comfort / ergonomics relative to paddling posture. For reference: I am 6'3' / 210# / 32" waist with big quads (in a past life I was an elite cyclist).
After switching to the NK and then comparing numerous buckets, I have become obsessed with the transition at the back of the bucket from lower to upper. For example; the Vega Flex, Think Uno Max, Fenn Elite S Fennix have very abrupt transitions that all create chaffing issues for me. Where as the Nelo's are so laid back I don't feel connected at all. Too steep and the bucket chaffs bad. Too relaxed and I have connection issues that undermine my foot and paddle pressure. The V12 used to be my favorite, but the NK Nitro changed that on many levels. Superb ski.

I feel like the bucket on the 560 requires a foot bar for optimal pressure/boat connection.

How does the seat/foot height difference compare between the Nelos/Nitro and new v12?

Also, the Nitro 600 is 9 pounds lighter than my 560....that has to make a huge difference in accelerating. But what is it like pushing above 9mph? Every boat besides the 560 hits a wall around there for me--and I am assuming it is because the weird bubble lowering the feet for stability allowed them to make it extra needly shaped. But 9 pounds is a lot.

Cryder wrote:

Have you tried going to a much smaller rudder in downwind? A couple of years ago I wanted to see how much impact the rudder leverage had on my surfing vs boat speed for over-gliding, and it was shocking to see how much faster I could go with a smaller rudder (even in big conditions).

Good point, I'll have to dig out the small epic rudder I got with the ski and see how that feels. Prob send $$ to DK for a 4" or 5"... Agree with the sentiment that it's best to learn to turn with methods other than a ton of rudder surface jammed into the flow... Thanks for the suggestion!

Thanks for the suggestion Cryder. I am picking up an nk double at the gorge this year. I considered going for a nitro as well sight unseen but decided buying two untested buckets at the same time was unwise. Very hard to sell an elite ski once it is in Minnesota!

Cryder wrote:

Hey Zach, I paddled both the 2G and 3G V12, and loved 2G, and liked the 3G which was just a smidgeon tighter - but I didn't care for the twitchy personality of the 3g V12 ski. Both were my favorite buckets until I tried the NK Nitro and it was a revelation in comfort / ergonomics relative to paddling posture. For reference: I am 6'3' / 210# / 32" waist with big quads (in a past life I was an elite cyclist).
After switching to the NK and then comparing numerous buckets, I have become obsessed with the transition at the back of the bucket from lower to upper. For example; the Vega Flex, Think Uno Max, Fenn Elite S Fennix have very abrupt transitions that all create chaffing issues for me. Where as the Nelo's are so laid back I don't feel connected at all. Too steep and the bucket chaffs bad. Too relaxed and I have connection issues that undermine my foot and paddle pressure. The V12 used to be my favorite, but the NK Nitro changed that on many levels. Superb ski.

Nick how would you compare nk bucket to the v12 g1 and g2? I am skinny but have wide set sit bones. So i dont need much width at the rim of a bucket but too tight a radius in the part that corresponds to a K1’s seat gets a bit uncomfortable and can make rotation a bit wonky in a subtle way.

Thanks!

I’m considering the NK Nitro 600. I found it to fit me well and be comfortable to paddle in flat/small conditions on two separate demo days. The boat size is supposed to be about right for my 5’6”/145lb frame. I wanted to see if there were any updates and opinions on the ski now that it’s been a while since it was mentioned in this forum. It seems well made so and wondered how it’s held up for owners. I’d appreciate any info on that boat compared to similar skis in the <20 foot length. Thank you.