Leash Anchor Amidships: Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

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4 years 2 months ago - 4 years 2 months ago #32776 by PeteCress
Seems like every ski I have paddled anchors the leg or paddle leash amidships - in the cockpit.

Seems like a bad idea to me: dump it in the surf, beachgoers are between me and the beach, whitewater comes through pushing the ski like a log into the bathers.

Have never actually expored that scenario, but that's how it seems like it would play out.

Does anybody have actual experience?

What I have had experience with is dumping in high winds and having the wind take control of the ski while I am trying to maneuver it around for a remount.

My "Solution" (quotes because, as above, I do not know for certain that there is even a problem) is a deck line from bow to cockpit: photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...W9IRknfsNQ8bgD1SaJeS

Running on that deck line is my SUP leg leash: photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...EBm97X0PwGzqROoWYPCE

When I get dumped, the ski naturally weathervanes - either into the wind or into the whitewater:
photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...AdPremxdQuJ4SUqWdXya

photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...nsYWSDK4yLx7COPVg-xU

photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNYvouxi5A1...5LX-cPYYExj0EmNsZ4BG

I am not in love with the SUP leash because of potential entanglement issues - although having it terminate up on the deck on the other side of the paddle stash mitagetes them somewhat.

But the SUP leash allows me to inspect the rudder while out on the water (lots of weeds here), otherwise, I would shorten it to be just long enough to allow treading water next to the ski.

I used to use a short paddle leash, but got tired of the weight and worrying about losing my grip on the paddle and provoking a blowaway situation.

The deck line is also extremely handy for leading the ski when walking in shallow water - as in going around sand bars.

This seems sooooo obvious to me that I am suspicious...

Am I the only one?
Last edit: 4 years 2 months ago by PeteCress.

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4 years 2 months ago #32780 by tve
Can't see your photos, I just get a 404...

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4 years 2 months ago #32781 by Dicko
Leg leashes in a ski are designed to stop your ski blowing away when you fall out in the open ocean. They are not designed to stop your ski washing away when you come out in the surf. That's a good way to dislocate a hip. As for paddling through a crowded beach, well that's probably not that wise really. Ski's are an open ocean craft, not a surf craft and certainly not for playing in amongst swimmers. They simply lack the control to navigate a busy beach.

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4 years 2 months ago #32782 by leolinha
I have lots of actual experience. When I didn't know better, I used a calf leash anchored in the cockpit. When I got dumped in the surf, the wave dragged the boat away sideways and the boat dragged me with tremendous force. A leash can't handle it many times, usually it broke after 2 or 3 such accidents.
Now I use a SUP leash attached to the stern of the boat. The new Epic models have a leash anchor point there, close to the rudder box.
I found that this is the most comfortable solution.

Current: Epic V8 PRO, Think Evo 3
Past: Epic V8, Epic V10 Sport

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4 years 2 months ago #32783 by [email protected]
Hey Pete,

(the links to your images are incomplete so they don't work.)

But you're right about the drawbacks of the cockpit leash attachment.

As Dicko says, the general recommendation is to unclip from your leash before going through the surf zone, to avoid injury.

We have a wonderful surfing spot here in Cape Town at a place called Muizenberg. The waves are ridable by surfskis from several hundred hundred metres out to sea sometimes, and you pull out before you get to the spot where the surfers are waiting for them to jack up.

But I've often thought about the carnage that would ensue if you lost your ski there - it would be carried in through swarms of surfers - and you'd be most unpopular.

But you're not the only one to come up with the solution of deck lines!

A deck line over the aft deck would be handy for when you have to head to the back of the boat to repair/jam a rudder in the case of a broken rudder line.

A friend had to do this on a big downwind some years ago and he said it left him very exposed when he had to unclip his leash to go fiddle with the rudder...

It would be great if you could fix the links to your photos!

Thanks!
Rob

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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4 years 2 months ago #32785 by PeteCress
It's something around permissions - used to be that album was publically shared, but no more and it looks like they've taken away the option.

So I created a new album and took their option of a shared link to the entire album:
photos.app.goo.gl/M83sphxe2nu7MHdE6

Hopefully this will work - at least it did when I went at it via another browser that did not have my Google ID/PW memorized.

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4 years 2 months ago #32786 by PeteCress
RE/(the links to your images are incomplete so they don't work.)

photos.app.goo.gl/M83sphxe2nu7MHdE6

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4 years 2 months ago - 4 years 2 months ago #32787 by PeteCress
RE/SUP leash attached to the stern of the boat.

That one appeals the most to me, but I failed to specify an anchor point at the stern so I'm stuck with the bow.

Another advantage (the one that made me prefer it) is that it orients the rudder seaward so that if you walk the ski to the beach, holding the leash, through the boneyard the bow hits the beach first and you have the opportunity to grasp the stern to keep the rudder from hitting.
Last edit: 4 years 2 months ago by PeteCress.

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4 years 2 months ago #32788 by PeteCress
RE/Leg leashes in a ski are designed to stop your ski blowing away when you fall out in the open ocean. They are not designed to stop your ski washing away when you come out in the surf. That's a good way to dislocate a hip. As for paddling through a crowded beach...

Doesn't have to be crowded - could be totally empty when I go out and have a few bathers when I return. New Jersey Shore - USA: unlike a lot of venues, people swim almost anywhere. You can choose a seemingly-unused stretch, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way.

Been there, done that surf-wise. Went over the falls on a pretty good-sized wave on an outside break off of Brigantine, NJ. The whitewater took the ski and dragged me, spinning like a bass lure, quite a long ways until it dissipated in the channel. Lucky for me nothing got dislocated, but I know what you mean.

With that in mind, I use only a paddle leash on my waveski. On the rare occasion when I go over the falls, I bail out with the paddle tucked under my knees and let them take the initial force. The waveski is basically a 9' surfboard with a little extra volume, so it's pulling power in whitewater is close to nil once the initial impact is over.... but I don't feel comfortable with that on the surfski because of all the extra horsepower from it's bouyancy and surface area.

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4 years 2 months ago #32789 by Fath2o
Have you tried using your foot straps? They are incredibly strong and you should be able to hold on to your ski in surf up to maybe 2m. This subject has been addressed here many times with paddlers devising
systems like yours. Often times incorporating metal hardware that I think could damage ski. I think attaching to the tail of your ski subjects the rudder to potential damage from wave impacts. Had my tiller arm stripped out before in large surf with no leash. Your mid cockpit leash should be long enough to reach your rudder for repairs. You should be able to hook up your emergency steering bungi or center and wedge your rudder if a steering component fails. Plastic toilet wedges are perfect for this.
The elite waveski paddlers here are strapped in at the waist to there boards and Eskimo roll. A buddy of mine goes out on the biggest days, 20' + and kills it. Very impressive!
Here's some vintage video of local legendary waterman Merv Larsen.
He was an olympic kayaker and surfski pioneer here in the states.

vimeo.com/108750972

In the video intro you'll see a surfski on the roof of his van that is most likely one he designed and built himself. he desinged and built his own waveskis too!

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  • MCImes
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4 years 2 months ago #32790 by MCImes
Kirk, is that Merv who was piloting your boat saturday? He's badass. He owns that wave. I find it amazing when he somersaults over backwards, rolls up and keeps riding the wave backwards as its breaking in front of him.

Surfing doesn't appeal to me very much because it doesn't involve a paddle, but wave ski is starting to peak my interest. Very cool old video. Thanks for sharing

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4 years 2 months ago #32791 by Fath2o
Yeah, that was Merv. Aging isn't kind. And your welcome.

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4 years 2 months ago #32792 by PeteCress
Is the new supposedly-shared link working?

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4 years 2 months ago #32794 by Fath2o

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  • Wombat661
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4 years 2 months ago #32806 by Wombat661

Fath2o wrote: Have you tried using your foot straps? They are incredibly strong and you should be able to hold on to your ski in surf up to maybe 2m. This subject has been addressed here many times with paddlers devising
systems like yours. Often times incorporating metal hardware that I think could damage ski. I think attaching to the tail of your ski subjects the rudder to potential damage from wave impacts. Had my tiller arm stripped out before in large surf with no leash...


I agree that tying to the stern of the boat is hard on the rudder. Even in small wavers, the rudder is facing the wrong way, and it snaps to end of travel very fast and hard.
Not sure you can hold on to the boat at the foot strap when the wave is hitting the boat broadside.
Maybe the best solution is a single rope from the bow to your ankle. That will have the boat to weather vane into the wave. Don't really need a deck line with metal hardware. Not sure what the deck line buys you.

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4 years 2 months ago - 4 years 2 months ago #32816 by PeteCress
Not sure what the deck line buys you.
Three things:
  • A convenient way to grab the ski when treading water
  • Ability to weathervane the boat, yet also be able to get to the rudder without having an excessively-long leg leash
  • A convenient grab line when walking the ski through very shallow water - as in crossing a bar.
Last edit: 4 years 2 months ago by PeteCress.

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4 years 2 months ago #32817 by Fath2o
Wombat said:

"Not sure you can hold on to the boat at the foot strap when the wave is hitting the boat broadside."

Trust me, I've been drug 100's of feet in the white water by my foot straps in waves up to 12+ feet. My paddle blade snapped off once while being tossed about and drug toward shore, but, my foot straps have never failed. Kinda hard on the feet though. Usually one of my feet gets trapped in the straps wedged by the pedal and it is a bitch to get free. Beneficial to be able to hold your breath for a while.

Not that am recommending this activity.

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4 years 2 months ago - 4 years 2 months ago #32818 by PeteCress

Fath2o wrote: Wombat said:
Trust me, I've been drug 100's of feet in the white water by my foot straps in waves up to 12+ feet. My paddle blade snapped off once while being tossed about and drug toward shore, but, my foot straps have never failed. Kinda hard on the feet though. Usually one of my feet gets trapped in the straps wedged by the pedal and it is a bitch to get free. Beneficial to be able to hold your breath for a while

Kind of what I would have expected.

That's where being able to weathervane the boat into the whitewater comes in. Been there, done that in waves of 2-3'. The leg leash is long enough that I am between waves while the boat is getting hit by the whitewater and the pull is trivial since the it is bow-in to the waves.

Sometimes I have simply wimped out: walked backwards to the outer edge of the bar, reeled in the boat, and re-mounted outside of the break.

When I lived in Hawaii, we used to surf 10'+ waves on the North Shore with some regularity; but I don't think I would have the heart to take a surfski through a break of that size.

South Shore, the ground swell from Diamond Head bouy to the Ilikai/Ala Moana park was pretty big and we used to ride in on Hobie 14's.

Hawaiian Airlines pilot I used to sail with out of The Outrigger Canoe Club dunked a Cessna 150 or 170 with his buddy and two women - crabbing it down the trough between ground swells.... but there were no breaking waves of that size and always channels into the Outrigger Canoe Club and the Ala Wai harbor plus large spaces between the various surfing breaks.

I wish I could go back there and paddle it on a surfski or OC-1 - pretty-good downwinder I would think.
Last edit: 4 years 2 months ago by PeteCress.

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4 years 1 month ago #32840 by owenfromwales

189cm 90~100kg
Present skis:
2017 Stellar SEI 2G
1993 Gaisford Spec Ski
1980s Pratt Spec Ski
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor
Previous
1980s UK Surf Skis Ocean Razor X 3
1987 Kevlar Chalupsky (Hummel) (Welsh copy!)
1988 Kevlar Double Chalupsky
1992 Hammerhead spec
2000 Fenn copy

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