Best option for a 70kg ex TK1 paddler

Hi Folks,

First post, please be gentle.

In a past life, I was a keen flat water kayaker - did a few Murray Marathons and a few other races, but then work, kids and other things got in the way and I fell off the wagon for a long time. I'm considering getting back into paddling, so I'm in the market for a new boat, and the array of choices are much broader than they were 15 years ago. I always paddled flat water in a TK1, and I was quite stable in one of those, able to paddle it in choppy waves (and the wash from a paddle steamer that was going over the cockpit a few times for fun).

I'm thinking about my requirements, and I'm probably looking for something that I could paddle happily on flat water, but I live near a beach with a river, so I'm tempted to go for something I could paddle out to sea on calm days or play in small waves. A friend has a Finn Endorfinn ski and says it would be a good option, and the other one that seems readily available around these parts (South-Eastern Australia) is a Sprit PRS.

Would those two be the best option for me? How would they compare, and are there other options I should consider?

I'm a light guy, about 5'10" and 70kg wringing wet, so I guess that would change the way boats sit in the water and may change how the boat performs? I'm not sure.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Hi Larry,

where do you live?

Cheers

I'm in Ocean Grove, Victoria.

Hi Larry, first of all welcome to the page, you'll find many of us are in the same position, getting into ski paddling once the kids are less demanding on our time.

Down to ski's

The plastic ski's you described are fun, tough, but slow and heavy compared to the composite (Fibreglass, Kevlar, Carbon) ski's many people end up buying if they really get into the sport.

You will find an Endorfin tips the scales at about 18kg and being shorter and wider than a PRS is stable but slower.

The PRS is usually around 21kg and with a bit more length is quicker but would be less stable than a TK1 I would think.

Having said that they can be picked up cheap (under $1000) and a lot of paddlers in my state (WA) have one in thier collection for use in white water (due to being very tough) and for family to muck around on.

If your budget extends beyond $1000 then there might well be many other composite ski's second hand that would be more enjoyable to paddle. Most composite ski's weigh around 12-15kg and thier stiffness makes them much easier to paddle quicker.

Most people selling boats will be pretty honest about how stable they are, it's a tight knit community and in my experience no one wants to sell you something you aren't suited too. Paddle lots of boats and get an idea on which ones you can and can't handle. Come back and ask us questions about boats you have seen for sale in your area.

Thanks for that - I'm assuming a lighter composite ski would also be more 'tippy', or is that just a function of the hull shape more than anything? I'm mindful that it might not quite be like getting back on a bike for me, so I think something intermediate first up might be a good option for starters and I'll see how keen I get.

By the way, I seem to have somehow put this thread into the 'Announcements' section - could a mod move it into the Boats section? Noob error.

IMO can't go wrong with a good intermediate boat. Can't imagine dealing with an 18-21 kg.
boat, but, I don't need the durability.
Good luck and have fun with the quest.

you've found that one via google alreadY, I guess:

expeditionkayaks.blogspot.de/2015/04/which-surfski-for-me.html

70 kg > a 2nd hand eze or hawx 52 GF maybe as a starter, then grade up to intermediate?

Larry wrote: Thanks for that - I'm assuming a lighter composite ski would also be more 'tippy', or is that just a function of the hull shape more than anything?

In some cases yes, especially given your weight, you don't want to be in a big volume boat or you'll bob around like cork. The lighter composite boats give more reward for effort.

I'm thinking the ideal composite boats for you to start out on would be

Carbonology Vault, low volume, intermediate stability.
Think Eze , low volume, beginner to intermediate stability
Fenn XT, beginner to intermediate stability
Stellar SR, beginner to intermediate stability

I did this price list a couple of years ago, to give you an idea on just how many models there are out there, like I said, if you see something for sale, ask us here whether we think it might be suitable. www.surfski.info/forum/19-boats/16418-au...celist.html?start=40

Some great people to chat to down your way are Mic and Kate Leverett, who are really down to earth and can give you sound advise. Search Paddle Life Barwon Heads on the web or facebook.

The other person in your neck of the woods who does group training and would have lots of different boats to try is Jarad Kohlar of Peak Adventure. On the web or on Facebook

If you are looking for a really great ski which will always put a great smile on your face and last you for a long time, have a look at the new OCEAN OSS:3. This intermediate ski is both, extremely stable and extremely fast.

Sorry, log in for "OSS" didn't work, so had to use my private account.

Cheers
Ole

Hi Larry. I'm 176 cm, 75 kg and the wrong side of 40 yo. I came from sea kayaking to ocean ski paddling a couple of years ago. My first ski was a second hand PRS that I bought pretty cheap. I was surprised at how unstable this ski was. Although it is 50 cm wide; the hull is quite round in cross section. There is no flat bottom and no chines. It wasn't particularly fast and was very slow draining. I also found it quite uncomfortable. I couldn't stay in the boat for more than 40 mins without 1 or other leg going numb. This meant that I sometimes had to jump out of the boat while 2 or more kilometres off shore. I got pretty good at deep water reentries. Looking back I can hardly believe that I persevered with it for over a year. I'd never paddled a composite ski so I didn't know what I was missing. I did enjoy the challenge. However I never got to master the PRS before I got sick of carrying that barge of a thing around. The roof racks of my car are 2.1 metres off the ground so you can imagine how excited someone of my stature was about loading and unloading it every time I went for a paddle. The first time I paddled a Fenn Bluefin was a revelation. It was so much lighter than the PRS that it would have to have paddled like rubbish for me not to want it. When I got it on the water nothing could wipe the grin off my face. I could not believe how much more stable, comfortable and fast the composite boat was. I bought the Bluefin and never paddled the PRS again.
As others have said, paddle as many boats as you can get your arse into. My recommendation is to buy the boat you can see yourself paddling in less than ideal conditions TODAY. Unless you are going to buy multiple boats; I don't think it's a good idea to buy a boat you can barely handle with the intention of "growing into it". You have some serious ocean conditions down your way. That can mean fun or it can mean danger. You don't want to be restricted to the Barwon River. The right boat will allow you to have a lot of fun in the swell now not 12 months down the track. It will allow you to become a better paddler faster by allowing you to concentrate on good technique as well as encouraging you to challenge yourself in different conditions without taking silly risks.

Thanks all, lots to think about. I'll need to re-think my budget - I had no idea composite skis (even second hand) would be so expensive, but I guess it's been a while since I bought any sort of boat. Gulp!

I might end up buying something relatively cheap on the plastic side of the fence to get myself started with the knowledge that I will be upgrading to something from the composite shortlists above when I can justify the expense and I've had a chance to do some first hand research. I'm also wary of making my newbie errors on an expensive boat, so I think the smart play might be to start off in something that can cop some punishment.

I'll ask around and try to paddle a few composites at the same time - I probably can't plonk down a couple of thousand on something until I've paddled it and compared it with a few others, and that will take some time.

Before I do that, I want to get some practice in and get my stability back - I had my first paddle for years on the weekend in a tippy kevlar TK1 and got surprised by a bit of side chop and ended up doing a bit of unintended swimming. After that I was OK though, and I enjoyed it.

Update - I managed to get into a ski, and now I'm more informed but more unsure. My canoe club had an open day today and I managed to have a splash in a Fenn Elite for 20 minutes or so. I managed to keep it upright for most of the time (only fell in once), but it was way too much boat for me in terms of stability at this stage.

I could see the attraction though - it cut through the water very nicely and it was very responsive. I found it strange having such a large amount of boat in front of me, and it did feel just a little bit too bouyant - probably proves AR_convert's point about too much volume for a guy my size. Great boat though.

The fact that I could (just) stay up in one of those gives me more confidence about taking on something in the beginner or intermediate range, so that's good, but I'm probably also thinking that I might get to the point where I want to move on from a plastic ski earlier than I expected If I go that way and this might mean it's not a great idea to start in one.

A couple of the guys are also in the local surf club, and they offered to give me a run in a spec ski from the club to see how I like that next. Should I consider a spec ski, or would these be tippier for less speed and a big disadvantage on the flat water compared to the lower volume skis mentioned earlier in the thread?

Larry, I think it is important to decide what your interests in paddling are. Do you want to race, paddle for exercise or just have fun.
A spec ski is specifically designed for racing around the cans and through the surf in organised , typically lifeguard, racing events. They are heavy and not wells suited for long distance or upwind paddling. A beginner ski is great fun for all aspects of paddling, but, probably won't be much of a challenge for you. A beginner ski will also put you at a disadvantage for racing. You experienced an elite ski and if you are a mere mortal paddler like the majority of us, you will probably never be completely comfortable in it in the ocean. An intermediate ski should become comfortable in a relatively short period of time and can be used for all aspects of paddling. They work just fine in the surf zone. Can be raced with good results and can be paddled in the most difficult conditions by most reasonably competent paddlers. If you master an intermediate ski and feel the the need to move up to an elite ski, it is still nice to have the intermediate ski in the shed as a back up and nice to paddle when your not feeling like a super hero. I think you have also already figured out the advantage of a lighter ski. Life is hard enough. Why lug around a 40+ pound surfski.
I would suggest, don't be in to much of a hurry and paddle as many skis as you can.
It seems like the best deals always come up with patience.

Great post Fath2o

Agree on being patient. The ocean ski market in WA appears to be saturated with 2nd hand skis being sold very cheaply recently. It could be worth the approx $250 freight to get a ski transported over! The kayak courier is one that is popular to use.

Fath2o wrote: Larry, I think it is important to decide what your interests in paddling are. Do you want to race, paddle for exercise or just have fun.

Cheers. Exercise and fun for me, mostly. A mix of flat water and ocean, but mostly for the river for starters. I may use it for the odd race if I see any adventure races going down the track, but I won't be competitive, so I'm not looking for an edge there. I don't think surf carnivals would be my thing unless they have a division for weedy guys who lack determination.

As you say, a spec ski probably isn't really designed for that, and I don't think it's on my list unless I'm completely surprised. To be honest it's just in the name of trying out as many as I can find to get a feel for the differences.

Fath2o wrote: I would suggest, don't be in to much of a hurry and paddle as many skis as you can. It seems like the best deals always come up with patience.

I think so. Hopefully I can stay patient long enough to get a good deal. You usually pull the trigger about two weeks before something you really want becomes available in my experience.

Update on what is turning out to be a bit of a long process. I'm still in the market, but struggling to find many options locally. I had a paddle in what I think was a Stellar Elite a month or so ago and found it really interesting. Still too big and bouyant for me, but I got an understanding of secondary stability, which I didn't really understand until I got the Stellar moving and felt how the wobbles just ironed out. That was surprising, and really cool.

Down my way there aren't all that many skis coming up for sale, and less in the size I'm after. I've done a lot of reading and I'm in agreement with AR_convert that something like a carbonology vault is the boat I should be aiming at to start in. I did see a Flow Kayaks Sharpski down my way that I like the look of, but all the reviews I've seen suggest it's more at the elite end of the scale and probably wouldn't suit me.

I've also seen a couple of vaults (and one really well priced atom, but I think that's way out of my range) for sale around Australia, and one question I would ask is whether people would be comfortable buying a ski sight unseen and having it couriered over? What are the questions you should ask, and what's the best way to make sure you don't get saddled with a lemon?