Which Bailer?

Hi All,
I am going to add a bailer to a ski and wonder if anybody has a recommendation on which one to use. I am considering an Anderson as well as IYE Super Shute 60. Any thoughts appreciated.
Thanks.
Ken

I prefer two or three venturis with bullets. No moving parts. Hard to break. Curious how sand affects Anderson bailers over time?

Ken,

I've used both Andersen & Shupershute 60/90-although not on a ski. In my youth (a long time ago) I built several racing yachts (dinghys) I used the super shute 60 & 90 in these. The Andersen bailer was fitted to my V12 Ultra - I've since retro fitted them to all my Stellars (I have a collection!) - All bailers seem to weep(leak) - some more than others! I paddle in marathon races as well as downwind (anytime there is enough wind). In the water I paddle in there is suspended sand/grit which works as an abrasive and what i've found is the plastic bailers weep/leak more as they get older - more so than the Andersen. I've used the Andersen Super Mini ('special' - it has an upright to it0 - this enables the tenis ball to work its magic).

Picture 1: is a close up of Andersen bailer sittingin a custom carbon fibre housing I made for mounting in a ski - in the background - is my weedguard blank...currently waiting on a new ski!


My Stellars with Andersens fitted.

Simon..

It looks like all your bailers are the remote operated type rather than the standard super mini bailers. Is there a reason for this? I going to do mine this winter but I just saw that all yours are the remote operated type, not sure what to buy now. Also, is that a pre made mount that you glass in?

Bill

Hi Bill, I've sent you an email...

Simon,
Which Anderson bailer do you recommend? Thanks for the input.
Ken

Ken, I've used on all my Stellars - the Andersen Super Mini 'Special' - In order to work it by foot as a single motion you need 'a stopper' to stop the tennis ball travelling too far back...In this method - all you do is draw your heel back off the foot board over/through the ball and then its down - to raise - pull your foot back off the foot board and roll the ball of your foot over the tennis ball in a forward motion and its up. With a little practice you'll be able to do it without breaking your cadence/stroke rate.

Picture 1: V12 Ultra - The cockpit on a V12 is engineered to take a standard Andersen Bailer - You need to add foam blocks to form a stopper for the tennis ball.


Picture 2: Stellar SE - this was done by eye free hand (no mould) - there is no place for a stopper - So I used Andersen Super Mini 'Special'


Picture 3: Stellar SEL - Using my home made Andersen mould/tray.





If you are in Australia - I have the Andersen Super Mini 'Special' for sale - sorry I don't send overseas.

Hi Simon, I've just bought an SES Excel and I'm keen to fit the Andersen Bailer. Could you please send me a message. jonathan.cowcher at gmail
Boat is great, drainage isn't ! Be interested in buying the carbon adaptor as well if you have made a mold. I'm in Melbourne.
Thanks

Interesting topic. Can anyone with suitable experience give a more general appraisal of the pros and cons of the various bailer options available ex-factory in the current crop of new skis? I don't wish to make modifications, but bailer type is certainly one factor that will influence the purchase of my next ski.

I have no complaints whatsoever regarding the operation of the twin venturi's in my current Fenn, but I am conscious of the drag they create when they are not actually draining anything (which is probably most of the time I am paddling). To that end, Epic's new bailer makes sense in theory, however my years of experience in all types of boats (not just skis) tells me that unnecessary moving parts always become a maintenance liability eventually. I am also not convinced that something you have to operate manually is actually better than a system that operates by itself. I can't honestly see myself fiddling around adjusting a bailer when I'm in a race, nor when I'm unexpectedly being swamped by a wave. That being the case, I'm probably going to be leaving it open all the time, meaning it actually offers not benefit compared to the standard venturi system. Which leaves the Anderson style bailer discussed here. I've never actually used one of these, so am not really familiar with how they work. When not locked shut, does the flap kind of open and shut as required, depending on the pressure exerted from the inside when the cockpit is full of water (opening it) versus the pressure from the forward hull motion through the water (closing it)? Or is the motion of the flap "stiff" enough to keep it open when you're in motion, like the Epic bailer? I've also heard stories about Anderson bailers presenting a safety risk to any body parts that might be unlucky enough to be caught moving the wrong way against the open flap, as could occur during a capsize/remount in turbulent water, when things can get a bit out of control. Would be interested in any thought on that aspect, as well as general advice on any of the above from anyone with suitable experience.

Cheers, Max

Hi Max,

The Andersen technology is pretty tried and tested in sailing dinghies, probably over 4+ decades.

They can get stiff to operate, but other than that they don't seem to deteriorate. They'd probably outlast a lightly built ski anyway.

When they do get damaged it's usually from being stood on (bending the wire 'handle'), which for most mortals isn't going to be an issue in a ski!

They probably are more difficult too operate in their basic form, however Simon's mod looks like it would work well with the tennis balls.

You're right to question the safety side - people do get cut by them from time to time during capsizes.

The Epic bailer seems like a clever idea, it's pretty easy to operate with your heels as you go along. I'm not sure it's as effective at sucking water out due to it's lack of 'sides'? Possibly it would have a shorter lifespan or be more easily broken being plastic?

A few weeks ago there was a thread about bailers.
in it Newbiflat shared some test results for cockpit draining time. worth a read. www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1....html?start=20#21821

The scuppers in the Fenns (at least the ones I've seen) are pretty agricultural, if you want to save a little drag you could try doing a little fairing work as I have done.

www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.495644...&type=1&l=39a1559b9b

All scuppers must add to drag to some degree, how great it is and if its noticeable or not once removed, I'm not sure. I have considered removing one all together on my Swordfish as its a dry boat anyway. But the modification I have done is worth considering for very little time and effort. A bit of work with the dremmel and emery paper, only takes about 10 mins each.

A bailer or scupper without drag is obviously useless as a pressure differential needs to created to suck the water out. The faster the removal the higher the drag or pressure differential!

The fastest bailer around is the Epic bailer, it is much faster than the largest Anderson you can buy, hence Epic no longer use the big Anderson for the back of their double but their own designed small bailer which drains faster than the large Anderson. Yes the drag is high fully open but because of the ease of operation it can be closed once empty after a few seconds.

Has anybody tried using an Epic bailer as a retrofit or in a new ski? I am building a wood strip ski and will either go with the Anderson as Simon has recommended or use an Epic.
Thanks.
Ken

I just bought two bailers from Epic. I will be putting them in two Stellar boats. When the bailer is open all the way, it drains very fast. My V10 drains a totally full bucket in 15 seconds at 10kph / 6.2 mph. By my measurements it drains at least 4 times faster than the venturi on my Stellar SR if not faster. My SR takes 2 min without my foam filled bucket (1:30 with) but it holds maybe twice the volume of the V10 when full and me sitting it it.

From what I understand the epic bailer might be dryer when closed as well. Mine is dry when closed. If you de get an Anderson make sure it's the Mini Super "special" as you can use your foot to open and close it much easier than the standard Mini Super.... That's especially true in a kayak.

As for using it.. I find it easy to open and close it with my food even in rough conditions and don't need my hand. Just a kick with the heal and kick forward to close. It's very quick and easy. If it starts to get stiff, a little spray dry lube spray works a treat. It seems pretty robust and isn't sharp like the anderson. I like things simple and bombproof but this is a fair trade off as it works so well. The first two positions work ok but wide open it drains super fast, all be it with a fair bit of drag. But 15 seconds later ( at most) it's closed and with a smooth fast bottom I win the race!..................... Well maybe not, but I love the bailer. Way more pluses than cons.

Bill