V10S/V10/V12 (all latest versions)

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9 years 10 months ago #21527 by surfskiforfun
Hi
I have been padling V10S (Performance) for 2 months now, and are looking for another Surfski to use in a freshwater lake. I am 95kg/1.98m. I tried the V10 Performance last week, and I feelt it was a tiny bit less stable, and a little tighter in the bucket. The V10S is loose (no pressure point) in the bucket, but the V10 was a snugger fit. It did not hurt after a 1 houre test, so I Guess its OK.
Since I did not fell out of the V10, maybe a V12 would be fun to get instead. Anyone know if the bucket is smaller in V12 compared to the V10?.
I am also thining of buying Ultra (easier to carry). Is the V10/V12 much more unstable in Ultra layup?. Is it possible to compensate with leaving some water in the cockpit?
Basically looking for advice if it is to big jump to a V12 Ultra from my beloved V10S Performance. (I will keep the V10S near the sea, and use the new surfski in the lake until I master it well)

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #21528 by Kocho
Was the V12 redesigned after it was first released? Specifically the bucket? If it has been redesigned, that means I have only tried the original version and have no idea about the latest.

I am 192cm and 85kg and I don't even fit in the V12: the cockpit is too short (knees too high) and noticeably narrower than the one in the New V10, which I currently have. In the V10 I have plenty of forward space on the rails.

The V12 was also too narrow in the cockpit for me for good rotation - restrictive. I could paddle it briefly, but did not feel good. Similar to what the Think Evo II and Eze feel for me in terms of width - just that little bit too narrow.

The V12 cockpit has sides that felt more vertical than the ones in the new V10, so it would have a more connected feel than the V10 has.

The foot board on the new models might be half a cm to 1 cm or so wider due to a redesign of the way it attaches to the rails, which is good for us folks with big feet. And the strap is more comfortable to the bare feet where it attaches to the ski.

The oldest version of the V10 had a cockpit even narrower than the V12 and I could not even sit in it for a test paddle.

Weight-wise, I think you should be fine in the new V10, though I think both the nose and the tail of mine ride an inch deeper than I think would be ideal (probably due to the very little rocker that it has).

I have not tried the new V10 Sport to compare (I owned the previous, second generation, version of the Sport before I moved to the new V10).

Unless you are somehow narrower in the hips than I am, and unless the V12 has been recently redesigned with a roomier cockpit, I don't think you will fit in it.

EDIT: leaving water in the cockpit will not make you more stable, the opposite. The 35lb or so on my V10 Performance feel considerably heavier than the just sub-30lb on my previous V10 Sport (also in Performance) and the Think Eze (also in Performance) - both the Sport and the Eze came well under advertised weight, where the V10 came smack on and feels that way...
Last edit: 9 years 10 months ago by Kocho.
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9 years 9 months ago #21535 by Ranga
There is no new V12 as yet!

The seat is narrower than the V10 and shorter, so long legs can be a problem if you like straight legs with your height.

I have a V10 and a V10S and love them both, particularly the V10S I don't find it much slower in the flat, I do sprint with the other guys on the longer skis and I am not left behind. I will be using it this season in our races.

As for speed of the V12, it is faster than the V10 but if you cannot sit upright in it you are wasting your time. Filling the cockpit with water, never heard that one before. It will only fill to the external water level which is not very full and will not make much difference.

V10 would be my choice.
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9 years 9 months ago #21540 by surfskiforfun
Thanks for the answers!
:)

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9 years 9 months ago #21560 by red_pepper
I haven't tried the new V10 or variants thereof, but I had the old V10L and now have the V12. For me (6' tall, 34" waist, 197 lbs, 31" inseam) the cockpit of the V12 is very comfortable - more than any other boat I've paddled, and the boat is comfortably stable on the flats and in chop. I probably feel more stable in it than I did in the old-style V10L, although I'm sure I've improved some in my stability over time. I would recommend at least trying it out.

The heavier layups gain a measure of "stability" by having the additional mass distributed throughout the boat, impacting the mass moment of intertia in such a way as to slow down the response to external inputs and to dampen motions a bit. You won't have the same effect by concentrating the mass in the center of the boat (filling the cockpit with water), although the extra weight may pull the hull down deeper into the water, effectively increasing the waterline width and increasing stability.
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9 years 9 months ago #21564 by portmanm
After 8 months paddling, I jumped to a V12 for 12 months. Was fine in the flat but fought it in mixed conditions, so dropped to new V10 elite & now smashing it in all conditions.

Check out Think ION and Vajda Hawx 46, they were on my short list too but my Epic rep looked after me so I went with the V10 :-)

Bio
- 90kg, 183cm, paddling 90+% in ocean conditions for 5 years. Prefer downwind.
- Epic V12 1G, V10 1G/2G, V10 Sport, V8 & V8 Pro
- Stellar SEI 1G/2G, SES 1G/2G, SEL 2G, SR 2G & S2E
- Vadja Hawx 43/46/52
- Think Evo II 2G, Ion 1G
- Fenn Elite S, Swordfish S
- Nelo 560M
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9 years 9 months ago #21570 by Kocho

red_pepper wrote: I haven't tried the new V10 or variants thereof, but I had the old V10L and now have the V12. For me (6' tall, 34" waist, 197 lbs, 31" inseam) the cockpit of the V12 is very comfortable


We are built quite differently: at 185lb I'm 6'4" with 36" waist, 36"+ inseam. That few extra inches in the legs are what causes the problem with cockpit length for me. And my hip bones are wide, apparently, even though I'm fairly skinny overall - that's what makes the cockpit too narrow (folks with bigger back sides sometimes have no issue, as long as the "big" part is soft tissue rather than bone). The old V10L was too narrow in the seat for me.

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9 years 9 months ago #21575 by Kocho
I again jumped in a V12 for a few minutes on flat water over the weekend to refresh my memories from when I first (and last) had paddled it over two-three years ago. In both cases I was in the Ultra version, so that (compared to my Performance build on the V10) is a bit of a difference in feel.

I almost fit, almost. My thigh bones are just a smidgen wider than the bucket calls for. And the foot board is perhaps 1/2" too close for me when it is all the way out. In comparison, I fit fine in the V8 and V6 that were at hand to try there too.

Stability-wise, the V12 feels a bit less stable than the V10. I was not about to fall off it, but it definitely requires attention. So, pretty light initial stability for a tall person like me. Also, I think it's final stability kicks in very late - it requires me to edge to a point where I'm at the limit of my flexibility, so it might as well not have that final stability at all as I would never edge that far while paddling. That's in flat water and I don't know how that translates to rougher conditions - was flat over the weekend.

The 12 felt fast, though it's hard to tell how fast from such a short time on it. And yes, the rudder vibrated at certain speeds and the toe pedals creaked terribly, just like I've noticed on a different ski a few years back...

Someone who was newer than me to surf skis also paddled the 12 and my V10. He felt the V10 was noticeably more stable for him, even though he would wobble in it too a bit.

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9 years 9 months ago #21576 by red_pepper
Although I'm shorter than you, I do sit tall in the seat - so I can relate to the stability challenges of being taller. My V12 is the Performance layup, which I suspect gives the boat a more stable feel. The V12 seems to have a significant amount of secondary stability, though the primary stability is probably less than some comparable boats. It's great on flat water - it just doesn't seem to have any resistance - and I find it to be pretty comfortable in smaller waves. In mixed "washing machine" conditions, however, it can get rather hairy for me. I keep practicing, however... :)

At some point I would love to try out the new V10 to see how much more stable it really is; I keep hearing good things about it. I'm tempted to pick up a V10S at some point for bigger/messier conditions, but if the new V10 hits the right stability/speed point... :)

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9 years 9 months ago #21617 by nell
I regularly use a 23 lb V12 and a 26 lb new V10. The V12 I bought first. I enjoy paddling both but really don't see any reason to keep the V12 because the new V10 is virtually as fast on flat water but much more manageable and more fun to paddle in rough water. Regarding flat water speed - I just don't see any difference in my interval speeds between the two, though I would guess that the V12 is ever-so-slightly faster, but the difference is so small that it would be hard to measure.

The seat bucket of the V12 is slightly more rounded at the bottom so some, like me, have to sit on 1 or 2 Epic seat pads to avoid hip pinch. On the V10, I still have to use at least one pad for the same reason, but it's so stable, that I train with 2 or 3 pads and race with one or two.

Weight - a lighter ski will be twitchier.

I'd put my money on getting a light V10 and then have the latitude to use as many seat pads as you like for comfort and for stability training rather than on a V12.

EB
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9 years 9 months ago #21619 by surfskiforfun
Hi
I have now tried Stellar SEL. It was to narrow, and less stable then v10. Then I tried Swordfish, and my legs died after 45 min. The hump stopped blod circulation. The boat was in between SEL and v10 regarding stability. But not sure it was any quicker then my v10s.
Finally I tried v12carbon. It was unstable at zero speed, but not too bad when I started to padle. But the bucket was to tight, and I did not try to paddle it for a longer distance, since my skill level did not allow me to paddle hard.
So best fit is still v10s, but v10 is on my most wanted list.

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9 years 9 months ago #21622 by Kocho
The V10 strikes a nice balance between stability and speed. About 1 year now (but no more than perhaps 20 outings with it), and I feel I am about as comfortable in it in rough-ish water as I was with the previous gen. V10 Sport in similar conditions last year.

So, I am getting used to its lower stability: today for a first time caught the boat wake of a certain ship I've been chasing for years, unsuccessfully :)

And have not fallen out of it lately, surfing boat wakes and small wind chop and braced only occasionally, mainly if I'm not actively paddling.

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