Does the Fenn Mako XT always turn into waves???

I'm new to surfskis but an experienced surf kayaker, both on sea kayaks and whitewater boats. I recently picked up a Fenn Mako XT used, I think its about 10 years old (it has separations for your legs near the pedals, which I'm told is the old design). I love the boat on flat water and have no problem balancing on it, but when surfing it always turns into the wave the moment I catch it.

It does this on a variety of waves, from tiny 1 foot pulses to 5 foot gently breaking waves.

I've paddled lots of kayaks that do this, but this does it to a ridiculous extreme, and I don't seem to be able to rudder (with paddle or feet) out of it. And even if I start on the wave perfectly straight and balanced, it still turns right away. Frustrating.

I'm fine with a bit of a learning curve, but I want to hear someone tell me that surfing breaking ocean waves is, in fact, possible with this boat? Or is this a known issue?

Thanks for any advice.

The xt is a fun downwind ski. I had one for a while and really enjoyed the stability downwind. It is short so perhaps that impacts on how much it rounds up. However it shouldn't be rounding up as you described. Unless you are on breaking waves in which case all skis will want to round up.

I have a boat like yours Fenn Mako XT...older style with the double foot well. I think the older boats like ours has the skeg rudder positioned a little further astern than than other skis. This might allow the boat to swing around more while going down a wave. It was some what frustrating how the boat would like to turn left or right while I was catching a wave. In any case i just paddled it the other week and had a great time. It seems that the same boat that used to "broach happy" worked quite nicely. So what had changed...I guess it was me. My newer/faster boat (Huki S1-X) Has a its rudder more forward then the Mako XT, which more responsive and also more "twitchy". In any case perhaps its that I'm taking one more stroke on the correct side just as the boat is starting to drop into the wave that helps keep the boat heading more down than turning to the side. Any ski will end up broaching given the opportunity.
Cheers,
Joel

The older XT was notorious for broaching - especially in the short, steep wind swells that we tend to get here in Cape Town.

The guys used to add a skeg about 50cm in front of the rudder to help with lateral stability.

A big elliptical rudder also helps.

The newer XTs had the rudder moved forward somewhat.

I found the same thing. You have to really paddle fast not to broach. I now have a swordfish, with the rudder about half a meter more to the front, and the difference is massive.

So the only real advice I can give you is to paddle hard down the face of the wave. Then the rudder has some effect.

I have the old double foot well XT. I love that boat. probably paddle it 3 times a week exclusively in the ocean and routinely in the surf. Ridden up to 4 meter breakers on offshore reef. I think any surfski has a tendency to want to broach out the back when angling down a breaking wave. The steeper the wave, the more tendancy to broach.
Our local surf/point break is a "Half throttle right hander" that tends to be real slow and mushy. Perfect for surfskis, of course the surfers don't think so. I try to avoid the surf above 2 meters, these boats are to dam expensive and I get tired of fixing them all the time.
I can easily catch this wave fading into the lip, do a bottom turn stay on the face of the wave and zig zag through the surfers for up to 500 meters. When I enter a steep section the ski will naturally tend to broach out the back of the wave, but, on the flatter parts of the wave I am able to turn back down the face.
I do a lot of downwind paddling and the XT is a hoot. Can catch and link runs effortlessly, zig zag back and forth and very rarely broach.
So whats the catch!???
I use a 10" elliptical THINK rudder. Works fantastic and fits right in. Might need the Think rudder yoke too, don't remember. Daryl is a great guy and can fix you right up.
When I first got the boat I had an 11" swept back rudder made, the sharkfin rudder was a joke. Boat was always spinning in circles.
The first time I did the US champs, had so much fun on the downwind, I wanted to go back and do it agian. The finish line was a real disappointment. The XT with big rudder worked exceptionally well. Honestly the more I paddle the XT, the more I like it.
The only problem for me is it's a bit of a submarine, real wet. (100 kilos).

AND THE ANSWER IS..... YES , THE XT CAN RIDE BREAKING WAVES.

So, I suggest getting a 10" rudder from Daryl and go have fun!
Good luck,
Fatwater

Awesome tip about the rudder!

I'm new around here. Where would I order one?

And I tightened up the bolt that connects the pedal wires to the rudder assembly and got much more control, so I think that the rudder may have been slipping before.

But I was still having a hard time controlling it sometimes so am very interested in that rudder.

I took the gopro out thinking I was going to film the problem, but wound up having a super fun session. Will post when I get a chance to download.

Wrybread,
Yeah rudder slip or slop can be a problem too.
Anyway, Don't know where you are but, you can go to the
"Think" kayak web site and get contact info. I dealt directly with the owner Daryl Remmler by email. If I remember right he sent me a 9" and 10" rudder with the steering yokes for around $80US each + shipping. Again , he's great stands behind his products and booked me in with a new foot plate assembly(for free!)to replace the one that broke on my four year old EVO I bought used. He even threw in some other swag. Guy is awesome.
Huki rudders probably work too?
Good luck!

@Fath2o: I talked to Daryl at thinkkayak.com, he says that the 9" is more common, that the 10" is "best suited for riding very steep boat wakes". Any opinion on that?

I mostly use my surfski for surfing ocean waves, though probably will be doing the occasional down winder. Given that, do you think I should get the 9" or the 10"?

And here's that footage I said I was going to post, from the other day:




You can see the boat turn into the wave on that first ride. No biggie though, its mostly manageable. But I'm still really looking forward to that bigger rudder.

Wrybread, I suggest the 10" for the XT because the rudder is so far back.
Steep boat wakes vs steep short wind waves, almost the same thing.
I prefer the 9" vs 10" on my EVO.
Great tips on the gopro, mine always fogs up.
Keep up the wave riding, You'll figure it out in no time.
By the way, where are you at, the Pacific Northwest?

> Wrybread, I suggest the 10" for the XT because the rudder is so far back.

Great tip, and thank you.

> By the way, where are you at, the Pacific Northwest?

Yes, San Francisco bay area.

Nice video of a nice place. Besides the surf rudder (which has transformed my skis) I would suggest you get a wing paddle. You'll go faster, be more efficient and have a better stroke with it.
But frankly, you're off to a good start!

@Fath2o: Daryl at Think doesn't have any 10" rudders currently, but he does have the 9". Do you think I should just order that, or try to find a 10" elsewhere?

The nine inch I have is a good rudder and works real well on my EVO.
Did not like the ten inch so much on the EVO.
The nine inch would probably work fine on the XT, but, with its' tendency for the rudder to come out of the water I think deeper is better. My ten inch is deeper but narrower than nine inch.
You might want to contact Jude at Huki and see if his ten inch will work on the XT. Never tried the nine inch on the XT.

Oh yeah, "And that's what she said"

Good luck.

Very ironic that I see this post as I am in the process of comparing my older XT, with 9 or 10" elliptical surf rudder (from Hein) to my older Findeisen spec ski. This comparison is for swells leading up to, and maybe including, breaking shore breaks--not flat water or open ocean downwind surfing.
My spec ski surfs great, though it is considerably less stable than the XT (surprising to me seeing that it is always going to be in rough conditions). I think the seat and feet are slightly more forward, making it easier to get going "downhill". The curved front (more rocker) may make it easier to keep straight, and not pearl.
As for the XT, I always thought it pulled hard to one side once I worked hard to catch a wave. I've not been able to test the new rudder much with it though. I thought it was harder to catch the wave (while starting from a dead stop) as I always felt I was paddling "uphill". Maybe the seat is lower than spec ski, maybe further back??
So far, the spec ski seems to be winning, but in rougher conditions/bigger waves, the spec ski may be too unstable to even get in position to catch a wave. The XT is very stable.
I wish I could find a stable spec ski. In general, do you all think a spec ski should surf my conditions better than an XT?
Thanks.

Thanks Fath20, great tips. And hallelujia, Daryl at Think found a 10" that'll fit my boat, its on the way. Can't wait to try it.

And @mickeyA, sounds like we're both interested in the same sorts of paddling. That spec ski sounds interesting.

Personally, I like the unlimited skis better. Lighter, more stable and better for offshore paddles. I paddle from a harbor most often and like to paddle a few miles to the local surf break up the coast. I'll ride a few waves then head out for a downwind back to the harbor. I have a v10, Evo and XT. Enjoy these better than spec ski used to have. They all ride waves just fine and much better up wind, more comfortable too.

G' Day Wrybread,

First thing I would do is get your self a mid size wing paddle do as I was told by a Oz Coach use it for + or - a 100 miles on open water after 100 miles I never put it down he gave me it as a gift,
There are very few bad Surf Skis and lots of not so great drivers. You look to have great water keep at it think less and paddle more.
Cheers Joseph