New Epic V10L

have attached a pic of the original V10L testing where Bruce Poacher (epic employee who did well in Molokai 2014 race) comments on old vs new v10L:
I agree that the new V10L is more stable than old V10L, but couldn't tell the cruise speed apart.
outrigger bev, the new v10L & SES would be an interesting comparison for you to seek out - try find a v10L to paddle & let us know how it compares to your SES, as they are a similar length

The screenshot you refer to says "the new V10L is a little faster and considerably more stable than the old V10L". Of course, anything said by someone who has an interest in selling me something should be taken with a grain of salt...

I have paddled both old and new v10L and old and new v10 , here are my thoughts.

Comparing old v10L to new - I am comparing black front old L and red front new L - comparing these two specific build weight boats i found no discernible difference in stability . So if you say a new L red front and an old L black front feel the same then the new L model must be slightly more stable, very slightly.

Possibly the more telling is comparing the new v10L to the new v10. The new v10 is much more stable than the old v10 and before paddling the new L i assumed Epic would make it more stable in a similar way. Not so . The new L is much more tippy than the new v10 and imo not much different to the old one.

That is how they feel to me, i weigh around 70kg.

MuzLath wrote: According to the Epic website the ski is optimised for a 75 kg paddler, but note there's 5kg difference between the lightest & heaviest layups, +/- another kg or so manufacturing variation, so I wouldn't get too hung up over a couple of extra kilos around your belly if you're somewhere near the mark.

I think you've got a very valid point here MuzLath. Maybe Ranga or Walter can allude to Epics view on that.

So I'm thinking that if the optimum weight for the V10L is 75kg regardless of the layup then it stands to reason that the lighter version can accommodate a 5kg greater weight without impacting on perceived stability if the Epic view is fact and not just marketing.
Cheers
Tom

Yes I would think the waterline depth is the deciding factor to the numbers for drag and such.

Ranga wrote: Yes I would think the waterline depth is the deciding factor to the numbers for drag and such.

Ranga, that then poses the question, which layup does the 75kg optimum weight refer to: Club, Performance or Ultra ?

I don't think 75 kg is "the optimum weight" for the V10L. The Epic website says that the hull is optimized for a paddler 75 kg and under. I read that to mean that 75 kg is the upper boundary of an optimum weight range that extends to significantly lighter paddlers as well.

JC wrote: I don't think 75 kg is "the optimum weight" for the V10L. The Epic website says that the hull is optimized for a paddler 75 kg and under. I read that to mean that 75 kg is the upper boundary of an optimum weight range that extends to significantly lighter paddlers as well.

Hi JC.
Absolutely correct. I should have said maximum rather than optimum.It's still a valid question though I believe.

I don't have the answer to what weight is optimal, but each boat is created with what is called "design displacement" in mind. That is the weight at which it is intended to perform best. What is "best" you say? It is what the designer had in mind. For instance, I fit in 3 sizes of the same sea kayak, Cetus from P&H. In the biggest one I am most maneuverable and most stable, but also most affected by wind, and less cockpit contact (too loose). The medium size is almost as maneuverable for my weight, but much less affected by winds. It sits lower in the water. Great fit. The smallest one, while shorter and more maneuverable for s light paddler than the other two for the same paddler, is less maneuverable for me - I load id down good and both nose and tail ride deep in the water and do not release well in turns.

A heavier paddler than intended, depending on boat design, may or may not find the boat more stable. It may track harder, which may be good or bad, depending on what you want. It will be less affected by winds and bumps, which is generally a good thing.

At the design displacement weight, the boat will perform best according to it's original designer's intent, which may not be what the paddler is hoping for...

Wouldnt get hung up on weight specs - ball park is good enough, be thinking more about stability, layup, fit in cockpit etc etc.

If you are thinking about an SES -

I find the SES excel layup suits me better than the V10 (std) because foot brace is anchored better - feet are placed further apart for better bracing = more stable, boat is faster and more stable for me
The layup is next spec up for same price lesser spec layup V10 therefore it flexes less going from wave to wave and in the water = faster downwind.

Also SES fits on the diagonal in a pinch in a standard garage for an apartment up the coast.

And also three rudders are available sm med large, for me - Small rudder on SES similiar to V12 rednose stability
Med rudder on SES similiar to V10 blacknose stability
Large rudder on SES between v10 and v10 sport stability

So flat water small rudder, big downwind day = big rudder for me
Interesting epics rudder is similiar size to the stellar large rudder.

Nice little down wind on the weekend, still love my SES excel after the few years ive had it. Dont listen to the hype or get carried away by fancy websites, try and objectively analyse each boat on how it fits and performs for youyou.

The lighter paddlers find the V10L more stable than the V10

This morning I finally got my hands on a New V10L in Ultra layup. Flat water harbour paddle in strong (15+knot) winds. On the way out the wind came from over my shoulder and eventually side on. On the way back, it was the reverse.

My mate was on his Stellar SES Advantage (14kg), single venturi model.

I paddled the new V10L for 5km with the tail/cross wind. Then we swapped for the return trip.

I paddle an original V10 Sport most of the time, or a Custom Kayaks Apex Double, or a Down river multisport boat. I used an Epic V12 in Ultra layup throughout April and May, twice a week.

I am an experienced intermediate paddler. 5'6" and 70kg.

Comments:
1. The New V10L is a wet ride. The cockpit is small and does not hold much water, but the side rails are lowish and the cross chop kept me wet. My mate found the same punching into the wind.
2. The new V10L feels very smooth. It glides really well.
3. The new V10L seat places you much higher than the Stellar SES. It feels like you are sitting 'on' the new V10L, and 'in' the SES.
4. The new V10L footwell is much narrower than the Stellar SES.
5. The new V10L feels very nimble.
6. I did not really get stuck into paddling it, because it was cold and I didn't want to swim. But the new V10L did not feel unstable. The same conditions in the V12 had me bracing and trying to avoid the cross chop.
7. The new V10L is equally fast as the Stellar SES in these conditions. The Stellar SES was equal to the V12 in each of our head to head sprints over the past few months.
8. The Venturi is awesome on the new v10L.
9. The Stellar SES footwell (space and brace) would make the New V10L so comfortable!
10. I have solid calves and short legs. The hump in most boats is uncomfortable and leads to sore hip flexors after 20 minutes. The hump in both the new V10L and the SES are awesome for me. So far.

I will paddle it again on Thursday, and not swap boats.
I have paddled the SES a few times now, and it instantly feels comfortable to me. Today for the first time though, the seat felt very low. Almost too low. But my mate pads it when he paddles. I could do the same. The v10L didn't feel instantly comfortable, but it was not uncomfortable. I think because the seat is so high. More time in the boat will tell more.

Cheers, good clear comparisons.

An interesting comparison V10L(Ultra) vs Stellar SES (advantage) - in Australia that is a hell of a difference in price. You should try the SES in Excel - similar construction to the V10L (Ultra)

So Thursday has been and gone, and here's what I can tell you.

Today I paddled the new V10L Ultra for an hour. It was flat, with the occasional ferry or freighter wash. Pretty benign. We nudged out of the harbour and the wind was howling offshore and the swells were very lumpy, with visibility of about 5 metres due to the fog.....so we ducked back into the harbour and dodged fog horns.

The new V10L felt as though it has more Primary stability than all the Stellar SES models. Even though the seat is much higher in the hull of the Epic.

The secondary stability is not as good as the New V10, or the old V10 Sport, but it is better than the old V10L, old V10 and V12. More importantly, short legged people like me can actually sit comfortably with the hump in the New V10L. It no longer feels like you are paddling up hill. Perhaps it's the higher seat. Whatever it is, not noticing anything is a good thing, and today I achieved leg drive, which is normally reserved for my kayak, and not my V10 Sport. The hump in the bigger Epics is just too big for me.

The new V10L is easy to remount. I didn't swim, but I practiced getting on a couple of times at the beach in deeper water. Side saddle or straddle technique. All good.

The boat still hasn't jumped out and said to me 'I'm the one' but after two paddles, it also hasn't done the slightest thing wrong or delivered any weird little ticks. Maybe that's the secret. I was able to just get on and paddle.

Each time the pace picked up, I could pull away from the Swordfish which normally matches my V10 Sport. That was nice. I could also make my mate in his SES Advantage work harder than he wanted to to stay with me.

I like it.

Simon Haywood - I have equal paddling time in all Stellar SES - Sport, Advantage, Excel and Ultra. The only difference is that the Excel was the older model with the narrower seat. I liked its speed, but found it uncomfortable to sit in. The other three rocked. To compare them;

Sport - Just feels stable. Is fun to catch both swells and wind waves on.
Advantage - Pretty similar to the Sport. Can't say much, except the Advantage feels a touch stiffer.
Excel - It was uncomfortable for me, but did feel fast.
Ultra - Definitely accelerated better than the rest, however, it also felt skatey to me. I liken it to dropping the fins off my wakeboard. It will turn when you tell it to, but it may slide sideways in the process. That said, it took no effort to get onto runs with.

I would probably want one of the three cheaper ones due to the Skatey thing. Especially out in th edeep stuff.

The New V10L I paddled probably can't be compared to any specific model SES, except maybe the Excel, which I haven't had the luxury of trying the latest model.

They are different boats, and your body shape as much as weight will have a bearing on which one you are most comfortable in.

If I had $4,700, I would but the Epic. I will try the Performance and Club hopefully to see how different they are...

I paddled a friends new v10L ultra layup for about 20 minutes in flat and some 1 ft chop. Amazing boat. There was a wind so its tough to compare speed against the v12 i usually paddle. It felt fast though. What amazed me was the ergonomics. The seat is very high and the catch very narrow. Best paddling position of any boat i have paddled. Very similar to the v14 which i have also only padfled once. Kind of like sitting in the v12 on an inch and a half of foam pad, but with a narrower catch, and much more primary stability. Absolutely planted in beam chop. None of the constant twitching of the v12. I would love try it in big seas. I am 5'11 170 pounds and fit nicely. I pad the v12 up an inch and in half inch on either side. I would need no padding in the new v10L.