Increasing Swordfish stability

The Swordfish seems to be regarded by most as a very stable boat in all conditions. After over 18mths of paddling one though, I have to admit I still don't feel entirely confident in mine in all conditions, particularly offshore. I've only actually fallen out of it 3 times in the whole time I've had it, but I often feel like I can't apply all the power I'd like, and sometimes can't confidently change direction at will (e.g. when trying to round a mark in a race - depending on direction of the prevailing sea, swell or boat wash). Basically I don't enjoy the paddling experience during the times when all the focus needs to be directed towards staying upright.

Does anyone have any tips regarding modifications that can be made to the standard rig to increase stability? I'm thinking rudders, but any other tips will be well received. My boat has the standard rudder which I sometimes hear people refer to as a "shark fin" shape.

Thanks all.

Will be interested in any replies to this as I have just borrowed a Swordfish in the carbon lay up for a couple of weeks. Unfortunately could not paddle today to test it out and may have to wait until next weekend. Again... will watch with interest. Thanks for posting this Max.

Can I ask what your core strength is like? The Swordfish is a very stable ski. Perhaps so much so that its not developing your core strength and your not building your core strength sufficiently through paddling, either because you are not paddling regular enough, or in conditions which place demands on your core. I have found core strength to be a big ingredient to stability in ski paddling, weak core and the stability suffers, build up a stronger core and the stability is much improved.
I paddle a few different skis and find that the Swordfish really doesn't push my stability anywhere like my SES does in the same conditions, paddling the SES in tricky conditions does work my core, and along with off water training I've found that my stability in all skis has improved as my core strength has improved. If I was doing all my paddling in my Swordfish, most paddles would result in very little core development.

Just an idea.

I have ordered a couple of alternative rudders for my Swordfish so might be able to give some feedback on that in a few weeks time. I've found the larger 9" surf rudders do help my stability on my Stellars when the conditions get trickier.

www.surfski.info/forum/21-fenn/13699-swo...liptical-rudder.html

www.surfski.info/forum/21-fenn/16605-whe...ish-rudder-surf.html

See threads above & hook yourself up with a rudder from Hein @ carbonology.

Mine cost $100 AU delivered in a week. Fenn apparently have one available for the swordy which is similar to the bluefin & LS now so you could try your dealer. I'm more than happy with mine from Hein.

Problem solved & you wont' look back going off your description.

This is especially the case if stability or tracking on waves in a downwind / decent swell is an issue or just needing some added stability when leaning into a sharp turn. Its like having training wheels on in the big stuff, for when you are tired, stressed or just want to paddle faster despite the bump. You can then make use of the swordy's wonderful secondary stability and short length by learning to steer with your hips & leaning to where you want to go down the runner, etc.

Yes from a practical point of view the minimal straight line performance loss exists however this will be made up in the ability to put the power on everywhere & smile. For some this might even be that extra bit of comfort you are looking for that will allow you to faff around with your GPS, water bottle, knitting, scratch your nose, adjust your paddle length.

More importantly it should assist you in concentrating on your catch/stroke & not your ability to brace 30 times per minute. Looking at what others have posted about swapping over rudders on the Stellars, Fenns & Epics it can be like having a two different craft just by changing your rudder over to an 8 or 9 " elliptical or 4" weedless (takes 5 minutes - 10mm socket).

From my personal point of view this was the first thing I did to my corky carbon swordfish & elite as I 'evolved' from a 18kg SLSA spec ski background where the spec ski rudder is broadly termed as a surf or elliptical. Previously I felt underwhelmed (read slightly freaked out) from a tracking or quick turning point of view as the standard lower volume rudders on 'ocean skis' affected my confidence. It was a strange feeling losing that 'bite' of the spec ski's surf rudder. It was also disappointing personally as the Fenns & Epics by design had much much better speed & stability due to the deeper low centre of gravity seating position so something needed to change and it wasn't me .... straight away. Being slow to adapt that simple leg up made all the difference in wanting to get out there again and again. I now use either rudder and enjoy the benefits of both.

You can then always move back to the 'slightly faster - bit tipper' shark fin when you know you can nail it anywhere anytime. The amount of times you brace will be a good indicator of that. Fenn even do a fast flat water 4" fin now so that can sort of be a cheap upgrade to head towards as you seek new challenges down the track or race in different conditions.

As we all know its all relative if you are bottom side up even once during a race or session hence the raft of new stable very fast craft coming onto the market.

Get that fin today. Enjoy that swordfish tomorrow and the next.

Cheers.

Agree wholeheartedly about core strength, however Max you've been doing it tough for awhile now so I query whether this the most significant factor challenging your stability.

While I still have some unsettled moments in shitty conditions in my SES, I do feel good in the boat now which I put down to a couple of things some of which may work for you. I've said this before in a previous post and it was a bit off-topic so I'll repeat for what it's worth.

Unless power is being put down I feel less stable and although counter-intuitive I keep putting power in (maintaining momentum and control as on a bike) but emphasise to myself (a) at worst, pushing equally with my heels on the footboard, enough to push the small of my back to back of bucket (b) at best, working my legs in tandem with arms eg left arm stroke left leg drive. This seems to create a stable lower platform and sometimes if feeling a bit iffy in the boat it's because I'm not consciously working on this. This by itself is not enough.

My most significant support that I can feel and know that sits me up, is to keep my top arm high across my face and sweep across in front of me pivoting from the hips. Why, because this forces the paddle out from the boat after the catch at an angle. By keeping arm high and swinging from hips (my pelvic girdle stays straight) I use my core a lot for sure, however my paddle doesn't drift behind my hips (a dead give-away in novice paddlers who work back past their hips) causing instability. Instead this increases stability by creating an outrigger-like effect. My pulling arm is almost straight through most of the stroke, seems to bend a bit as I flick the blade out of the water.

Work is not diminished doing this - how the wing paddle is meant to work as I understand it. This point is not rocket science, it is in all the manuals etc about using a winged paddle, however what is rocket science for me is constantly CONSCIOUSLY and unrelentingly keeping that top hand high across in front of me (mine acually arcs down and back up a bit, whatever) and working my torso. The blade is right out there but holding the boat up as it were. This works for me.

Other one for me in confused water is flexing from the hip, tipping pelvis left and right, pushing one sit bone down but NOT leaning while doing it. Again no real news there but I consciously employ this if I'm feeling the pinch.

Other than a longer rudder for bigger stuff I'd leave the boat well alone. Remember too that with a bigger more responsive rudder, hit it hard going down a wave and you're likely to get spat straight out because the boat will momentarily pivot on its central axis before changing direction (moreso than previously).

Persevere and good luck.

I would also leave the rudder for the time being.

I also suggest the following drill:

Sit still in the boat and hold the paddle close to the chest, and the elbows pointing down.

Then do hip/torso twists as if you are paddling (ZERO arm movements).

A few clues here: Initiate the twist by squeezing the leg (until the boat is pushed slightly down by pushing the hump) while twisting the torso/hip until the elbow is right on top of your knee (left elbow and left knee, right elbow and right knee) - THEN STOP in fully twisted position for about 1-3 seconds. The rotation should be as if you are sitting in a rotating seat

do this 50 times (25 to each side)

This drill will probably be surprising as to how the body need to be positioned to maintain a stable position. In the beginning you probably not be able to do this without bracing. But after a while you automate the correct and balanced body position.

When it gets bumpy and you feel unstable, remember the stabilized feeling in this drill and it will help you.

Do this drill before and after each paddle and you will improve you stability fast.

Helped me greatly, at least!

PS: the other tips eg from Watto are stuff you do on the water afterwards

Hmm... Not sure about changing the rudder; I think that the elliptical rudder can make the boat feel a little less stable. It is so effective that if you stab the rudder pedal, the ski will roll you out.

One thing you might want to try is straightening your rudder pedals out - ie adjust them so that they are aligned straight with the footplate instead of angled slightly towards you.

The benefit is that you can push against the footplate without inadvertently working the rudders. Years ago I found that I was unconsciously waggling the rudder, which induced a rolling motion on the boat - and it suddenly felt much more solid when I adjusted the rudder pedals and stopped doing it. (I was given this tip by the big O himself.)

Yes the guys are more correct in their suggestions given the time you have been at it so apologies if I've jumped the gun (or the shark fin ho ho) with the rudder swap at this stage. I've over simplified from what I found to be a very beneficial change given my situation of being a stable rotator moving from a less stable spec ski craft to the more stable swordfish with a different modified to similar rudder setup .

Talking about developing your core stability, how you actually deliver your stroke, looking up, forward and as Rob suggests even the simple angle of the footplate to prevent bicycling on the rudder peddles a basic things to look at. As you advance to surf or big runners, you sometimes need to consciously remember to control the rudder with pressure on both peddles when zooming down a wave as this stops the wave doing the waggling.

If you have your footplate length position correct then you can use narrow pegs to muck around with the peddle angle until you can still steer but not stamp on the peddles during normal leg drive. This will save with the back and forth adjusting of the cable lock points with alan keys until you get it feeling spot on.

Have you had anyone video coach you, check your form or even do a selfie video of yourself ? Its always humbling to see how good and how very bad your position or stroke can be during a session when you upload the contour/go pro.

If you have a GPS you can often match up with the video just how inefficient you where even though you were putting in more grunt effort, thought you were rotating, etc. This is especially the case when you are tired, falling apart or just not rotating fully from the hips & foot pressure. I know when I've been bad as my arms look like popee and I cannot scratch my head or lift the ski easily after a race.

I'll master this long course flat water stuff yet !

From my limited experience: paddle in a V8/XT class of ski and you won't have to think about or expend much energy to feel stable. You also won't improve your ability to feel stable in a skinnier ski. Move up to a V10 Sport/Swordfish class of ski and you'll feel like you have almost started over for a week or two. The same when you move up again to a skinnier more elite ski.
This may sound like a stupid approach to surfskiing for a beginner like me but this is what I've discovered for myself. I paddle a V14 on my pretty calm water at home and I am finding I can now, after a few weeks, go out in rougher conditions with each passing few days. A lot of this is reading those jetski and wake board boat waves and taking them on the quarter or straight on. When I jump in my SES it is so much more stable than the 14 I feel like I could go out in much rougher conditions. All of this practice at home is in preparation for Maui where I drop back a notch and rent a V10 Sport which now feels quite stable in much rougher conditions than I ever have at home. When I return from Maui and a V10 Sport or if I've been on my SES for a few days I can't keep the V14 upright until I've been in it for ten or fifteen minutes.
The limiting factor for me is still my core. Every time I finish my daily 3400m session I think that I should try to push for a longer paddle but just trying to maintain an upright posture when I'm gliding to the shore after my last stroke is difficult. I started paddling to strengthen my core to protect my lower back while rowing. I have now abandoned rowing totally to concentrate on the very challenging task of learning to become stable in an elite surfski and learn a good, solid forward stroke. I've got my hands full and I'm totally dedicated to it.
To finally address Increasing Swordfish Stability: try all of the good advice given by some very experienced paddlers on this topic and keep going out in increasingly more demanding conditions but when your core becomes toast, as mine does, get your butt back to shore because your stability and stroke will fall apart when your core goes.
If I did core specific exercises in addition to paddling I don't think I'd have the stamina in my core to paddle.

Your body can recover very quickly from performing core exercises, and you can adapt a lot of what you do during the day to utilise your core more, you can even do some while watching TV at night, great for the colder nights to keep you warm. If concentrating on core exercises they are best done after you have done what ever other exercise you have planned for the day, just do a few in the add breaks if watching TV, you soon build strength and will be able to paddle the next day if you don't over do it. You will build core strength in a fraction of the time than relying on paddling to do it for you.

Greg,

You inspired me to think about getting a Swordfish. Coincidentally, a used carbon one came up for sale for a fair price and I pick it up later this week. Anxious to see how it compares to my SEL.
Cheers,
Ken

Thanks for the good advice!

MaxB wrote: The Swordfish seems to be regarded by most as a very stable boat in all conditions. .... Basically I don't enjoy the paddling experience during the times when all the focus needs to be directed towards staying upright.

Hi Max.
This may be your issue and not the boat! I paddled a tippy ski for a number of years and was always uncomfortable paddling sideways to the waves.

Even with a more stable ski and being able to apply full power in most conditions I still feel uncomfortable paddling sideways to the wave and my tension level rises.

When I paddle white water and approach some rapids I try to loosen my hips so I can lean the (plastic river) ski and keep my body upright. This works quite well but cannot always remove the tension, especially If I've had a swim!

Good Luck!

PS I paddle a few times a week all year round, mostly in the river, with winter in plastic skis ready for the Avon Descent .

My experience is a higher volume deeper rudder will increase stability.
If you have a seat pad, ditch it. Try adding weight in front of the foot pedals ie; sand bags, lead. Paddle clinic helped too.
Had same issues with ELITE, sold it and bought V10 and love it.
Have three boats and multiple rudders to satisfy all conditions.
Good luck! Captain Kirk - out.

By the way, does anybody besides me know who sister Batrill is? Nobody responded to my last reference (joke). Am I really getting that old?

Thanks for all the terrific input all - greatly appreciated.

One thing that does puzzle me - and it popped up again in this thread - is that folks seem to regard the Swordfish as an equivalent boat to the V10 Sport. When buying my last boat, I tested these two extensively, and my impression was the V10 Sport almost felt like a barge compared to the Swordfish. This wasn't unsurprising to me, given that the V10 Sport is 48cm wide, whereas the Swordfish is only 45cm wide. By comparison, the new V10 is also 45cm wide, and it is clearly not in the same class as the V10 Sport.

So I guess my question is: is the Swordfish really as stable as everyone seems to believe, or is this a kind of urban myth? If it is somehow magically stable despite it's relatively narrow beam, why is that the case?

I tested the swordfish and new v10 back to back and they had similar stability.

As far as rudders go the smaller the rudder the less it will effect the ski, the larger it is the more it is going to destabilize the ski, it is not a weighted keel! The faster you go the worse it gets as it has more power and will throw the rail around, that is why I use the smaller rudder on my V12 and the large on the new V10 as I have the stability to handle the large rudder.

The V10 Sport is the same length as the Swordfish, generally length is speed. But then there is hull shape and numerous other things that will effect speed.

My advise for an unstable ski, get a stable one and learn to paddle properly, you will only pick up bad habits trying to stay upright if this is your main focus, you WILL also be slower.

Hi ranga

Interesting perspective. I thought it was the other way around.

robin.mousley wrote: One thing you might want to try is straightening your rudder pedals out - ie adjust them so that they are aligned straight with the footplate instead of angled slightly towards you.

The benefit is that you can push against the footplate without inadvertently working the rudders. Years ago I found that I was unconsciously waggling the rudder, which induced a rolling motion on the boat - and it suddenly felt much more solid when I adjusted the rudder pedals and stopped doing it. (I was given this tip by the big O himself.)

Picked this up early in an earlier incarnation in surf life saving ski days long ago. Lock my self into the bucket and my heels into footboard. Use ball of toes on the pedals that are slightly bent away. Made a BIG difference in stability. The FENN Allen Key is my Friend!

My advise for an unstable ski, get a stable one and learn to paddle properly, you will only pick up bad habits trying to stay upright if this is your main focus, you WILL also be slower.

Ranga, yours is solid advice I'm sure. But.....

After paddling my V14 for a couple of weeks a V10 Sport or my SES Ultra are stable as can be. After paddling a V10 Sport or my SES for a couple of weeks I can't keep the bumpy side of my V14 up until I've paddled it for at least thirty minutes. It's almost like when I first tried it out. As you advance through more tippy skis you will go through major stability discomfort just as when you progress from mild to more challenging conditions in any ski other than the V8 and skis of similar stability.

It seems to me that there are three major challenges to overcome in surf skiing, i.e. developing a good forward stroke, learning to stabilize a tippy ski and learning how to paddle in the open ocean. They all go together and depend on one another but it seems to me that stability in a tippy ski is almost a separate issue that can be learned as you work on your stroke.