HELP deciding (and finding) a boat

I do an adventure race yearly which includes a kayaking leg on a class 1 to 2 river at 9 miles in lenth. I have always done it in a downriver race boat... However, the last few years they have increased the allowable length of boat to 18'6". One guy bought a wave excel (wsbs) and cut it off from 19' to 18' 6".. Although my team won overall, He beat me by about 30 seconds....
So my question, What boat would be faster than my downriver (seda, vertex) in a stock length that would compete better with these boats? I really like the epic 18x. Would that be close? Also, I havent' ruled out K1's because there are a few people that paddle them in the race..
Any and all input appreciated..
Thanks!

The 18x is an awesome boat, and a lot quicker than most expect from a touring kayak, but there are a few questions:
What is the likelihood of hitting rocks?
Do you need to carry a lot of gear?
If you could use the V8, it may be a better option as it is lighter, and an unexpected swim will only cost you seconds, rather than minutes

There is a chance of skidding on rocks on shallow gravel bars occasionally and I don't have carry any gear. Thanks for your reply!

You probably want an over stern rudder option. The Epic kayaks' rudder is good for this too as it is retractable in the rear (the new models, the old ones don't have the retractable part). In a ski you would need to install an over stern rudder as the under stern ones will catch and break on rocks. The drain could also get damaged on skis in shallow rocks. Be prepared to get scratches or do repairs after the race if you run over many rocks, though sliding over most rocks where there are no drops involved usually results in only minor cosmetic scratches.

You should not be falling off your boat in a class 1-2 river, but a ski is just easier and more ergonomic for races than the enclosed versions of the Epic kayaks. I suppose there are some plastic skis that too might be a good option, but they tend to be heavier and I don't know if they would be as fast as the composite versions...

Anyway, I'm just theorizing here as I do very few and very not serious downriver races and the only time I took my Epic V10 Sport ski in class 2+ water it was fine stability wise going downriver (but nipped my rudder on a rock on the flats). I would only take such relatively fragile boat for a race where there would be lots of rocks if I am not or do not mind paying for the repairs down the road...

Stellar S18S is a great Adventure Race ski in theory...

It's the right length at 18 feet and one inch narrower than the Epic. It has a rear storage hatch if needed, and it can be obtained with an optional kick up rudder when purchased.

www.stellarkayaksusa.com/usa/s18s_surfski.html

I would think that the only question would be the bucket size. It is a larger volume bucket

I second the Stellar 18S as a good option. I borrowed one a few weeks ago for the Ski to Sea race and managed a first place in the Rec (kayak) division out of around 180 boats. There were almost 500 boats total in the race with the remainder mostly skis. I think I was somewhere around 28th overall. Can't say much other than positive things about the 18S after that. Stable, fast, well behaved and well built (the boat, not me). The over the stern rudder would be a good option.

Ken

As a follow-up note, Stellar also has the racing kayak, the S18R if a sit in is preferred as opposed to a ski type cockpit.

I personally own two Epics, a V8 and V10 Sport, but I think that out of the box, the Stellar S18S is pretty much a great option as an 18 foot class, Adventure Race boat; kick up rudder, rear hull storage, water bottle holder etc.

The 18R is an extremely fast boat. Joe Zellner has won just about every major endurance race there is in USA in the 18R. He is Great endurance paddler and not young either. These are some long races, 42, 72 mile and even some longer races. S18S surfski has same hull with useable hatches and overstern rudder post already installed. I reviewed both when they came out. i think 18R is fastest sea kayak on market with Stellar surfski footplate. It is more narrow than 18X. I have paddled both V8 and 18S as well. Wesley, Stellar and SurfskiRacing.com.

dbenkley wrote: I havent' ruled out K1's because there are a few people that paddle them in the race..
Any and all input appreciated..
Thanks!

The Avon Descent is a race paddled in perhaps more demanding conditions
"The whitewater grades of difficulty to be expected can vary from Grade 1 to Grade 4. Typically there are Grade 2 and Grade 3 whitewater rapids"
Some of the better paddlers use K1s, so this may be an option.

Both the Eze and Big Eze are available with over stern rudders, which could be an option.

Personally, I love K1s in the river.

Thanks for all the replies! Does anyone want to take a stab at rating the speeds of the aforementioned boats (s18, 18x, eze) versus my downriver racer? I do prefer to be in a kayak rather than a ski as a lot of training is done in sub-freezing temperatures. Now the question of finding a boat comes into play without having to spend a million dollars to get it to Montana. Ideas??

Re: speeds. If the river is fairly continuous class 1 and 2 whitewater, wave trains, etc, you'll be fastest in the boat in which you can keep the power on most/more of the time and that might not necessarily be the fastest hull on flatwater.

I like the longer waterline on the bumpy rivers because the boat rides flatter and hobby-horses less - which translates into being able to keep the power on through the wave trains. Therefore, I suspect the 18' boat will be faster than the 14' downriver boat.

Re: ideas, keep your DR racer for cold weather training and find a used 18' ski or 18x or something for the warmer weather or the races.

I think Wesley Echols has your perfect boat. Kirton Tor! with an over the stern rudder. Buckle up and buy it! You will own the Race next year.

I don't think the Seda, 18x, etc would be as fast as a wildwater/downriver boat in any river conditions. The 'beginner' surfskis might be, but I don't think they would be much faster. My experience is that a wildwater boat's lack of length is not as much of a handicap as people think.

I use a GPS and do most of my training on flat water in a beaten-up 1990s wildwater racer (14'9") or a Thunderbolt T-Rex (which is more or less a 21'x17" fast surfski with a kayak cockpit). I have also paddled a Stellar SR and a KayakPro Nemo (18' racing sea kayak like the Epic 18x) but I have only minimal data on them.

These are my approximate average speeds in mph for LSD paddling (a steady, not hard, pace for a 2-hour paddle) and for threshold (long intervals or a 1-hour race). The numbers for the Stellar and Nemo are very sketchy as they are based on only a couple of sessions each.
LSD Threshold
WWR 6.7 7.4
T-Rex 7.2 7.9
Nemo 6.2 6.8
SR 6.7 7.3

I was surprised not to find the SR notably faster than the wildwater boat but that was corroborated when in one of our weekly races a fellow paddled away from me who I could (just) beat in a wildwater boat.

I also had an ICF K1 for a while. I could never balance it properly and my speeds were about the same as for the T-Rex on flat water. In waves I would have been much slower in it.

I have paddled a Tor. I found it very stable, very manoeuvrable with the standard understern rudder, and it seemed only a little slower than the T-Rex.

Wildwater boats and West Side boats are built to take impacts. Surfskis are generally not, though it sounds like the plastic surfskis are popular in Australia for scratchy river races. Some ICF K1s are built to hit rocks, but you have to be really good to make them go well in tricky water.

As Nell says, if the rough is continuous then you need a boat that goes well in it; if the course is mostly flat then you need a boat that survives the rough and goes well on the flat.