A 5cm difference is like night and day... why?

So in my two weeks with my first wing, a new (to me) ONNO small mid wing, it has been a revelation in being able to put down power. But, i have a few questions on technique . With a recovering shoulder injury i was recommended to use it at the shortest length (206cm) to reduce stress on my shoulder, so i did from my first stroke. I watched lots of videos and read as much as i could about working on my catch, power and finish and rotation etc.. I feel i had a reasonably good strong stroke basic stroke but was always aware of just how perfect my stroke has to be to really get a good stable bite.

A few days ago out of curiosity i extended to paddle to 211cm.... wow! It was like night and day. Every stroke was like it was in concert and was much more stable.
After 30 min i switched back to 206 and comparatively the paddle feels mushy, vague, lacks that locked in feel. If i mess around with the strokes catch, power, rotation and letting the paddle run, sometimes that planted feeling is there but its hard to tell what 'm doing different to make it happen. It feels very finicky.. at 211 not at all.

I know without seeing me paddle its hard to tell what's up. I'm guessing some people would just use it at 211. Well besides 211 kicking my butt (not a bad thing), its much harder on my shoulder. I would like to get solid bite and stability at 206..... any pointers on how to do that, what to watch out for, and how to self diagnose my paddling issues would be welcome?

Amazing what 5cm will do!

Bill

My advice would be to work on your technique at 206, if your feeling mushy, your technique needs work, if your getting pain in your shoulder at any length, your technique needs work. Don't keep doing it wrong, don't expect your shoulder to ever come right doing bad technique, do it right and your shoulder and your body will thank you.

See www.surfski.info/forum/15-tips/13371-win...ing-mushy.html#13385

and www.surfski.info/forum/2-announcements/1...m-sholder.html#13288

The mushiness is a bad catch.
It happened to me at 197cm and lower in my testing of ultra short paddles.
I have now managed to get to 195 with no problems.

It is ultra important to get a good catch with a short paddle length.
The shorter you go the shallower it is in the water and the more it relies on sideways movement to have a solid feel.

With the small blade you have, you will have to be very good with your catch or it will all fall apart.
If you don't rotate and have leg drive, your catch will be crap.

So concentrate on good rotation and you will get it.
Anybody with poor rotation struggles with shorter paddles.

Whats the point of having anymore or less than a full blade in the water, what ever the length of the paddle?

Water moves easier at the water-air boundary.
So a blade that is only just in the water will not support as much applied force as one buried deeper.

With very short paddles, the catch is performed with the blade either very close to the surface or with some of it not yet submerged.

The entire stroke also stays much shallower due to outward movement with more body rotation rather than going deeper and then outward.

This is why a teardrop shape with it's majority of surface near the tip works best in these circumstances.

It is also the major reason why I oversize my blades in my ultra short paddles.

At the moment I have pretty much reached the limit of shortness with my current blade shape.
My paddle lengths being out of the norm mean that I am operating the blades out of their design area.

So I am getting a larger blade to see how short I can go and see what cadence limits I find.

The real answer is a blade with an extreme teardrop shape, instead of going oversized.
But most manufacturers don't make em just for me to experiment with.

Maybe some do, but until I try their paddle, I don't know.
With paddle availability pretty scarce off the shelf, I don't want to just start ordering many random designs in the hope one may work.

So I stick with a blade shape that I like the action of and work with that.
Also helps that I can get supply of any length I want.

To alter cadence with a smaller blade rather than a shorter shaft lets in high drag inefficiencies and defeats the purpose of gaining efficiency through higher cadence.

At the moment the original poster is trying to get shorter with a small blade and will therefore struggle.

He would be better off with a larger blade to support a shorter paddle and his shoulder stress would be much less due to lower top arm position.

My biggest blade at 195cm is far easier to pull than my smallest at 205cm due to leverage effects and a higher turnover rate.

Catch it is.... i have been playing with starting my paddle at 211 cm and over an hour + shortening it by 1 cm every 10 min or so. This has helped a lot with my catch and feel at 206.
getting more of the blade in the water before applying power has helped .

I wish i had a few other paddle sizes to fiddle with but alas.... my ONNO small/med will have to do for now.

RAB, based on your criteria, I can help you shorten the list by saying the blade that comes to mind as meeting your criteria for larger size, extreme teardrop planform, and that will accomodate shorter lengths well: Brasca VI max. You will not sacrifice catch in shorter shaft lengths with this blade design and the power is really front loaded in the stroke

I took a Meek A series paddle for a burl today.
Impressive.
Stroke starts very early with a quick catch and ends early, exits easily and keeps the tempo up.
So much so that I felt I wanted to lengthen it from it's 206cm shortest and ended up at 211cm when I was in a test Fenn Elite SL with a 20mm seatpad in it.

Gotta say, it was impressive to see Amanda turn up with a huge box full of every Meek paddle available for testing.

A-class service with a smile.


How does the Brasca iv max compare shape wise, the A series is extremely teardrop and handles well?
Blade was not large but easily supported a hard pull.


Does show how much a paddles design influences the length to use.....

Roman Numeral Dyslexia gets the better of all of us occasionally. Don't confuse the BrascaIV (4) with the BVI (6) they are very different paddles in how they behave. . The four is the tried and true mid sized brasca that many,(most?) surfski blades are based on. The 6 has also been copied to a lesser extent. It has considerably more twist, is more "extreme teardop" and, in the OEM version blades are fitted into the shaft unlike other Brasca models, like an epic is. This would also seem to allow for shorter paddle length as the hand can gravitate if necessary all of the way to the blade..If you took a B4 and let it melt in an oven, gave it some more twist and then let the tip sag downward you would arrive at the B6. More optimal for a higher cadence than the B4, it seems even less linear in power delivery but somehow more explosive. The Meek you tried sounds like a kissing cousin of the B6.