Paddle choice

I appreciate the replies about what to get as a first surf ski. I'll be looking at an Epic V8 this weekend. What about paddles. Can Istart off with my asymmetric carbon kayak paddle (220 cm) or is a wing/mid wing needed for surf ski? Upper body strength is not an issue if that is a reason to stay away from wing. I have plenty of strength.
Thanks

JK

210cm to 220cm is too long.
Get a mid sized 205cm to 215cm adjustable.

You will more than likely end up at length within this range and if not the paddle for you, it will be easy to resale.

If somebody tries to sell you a longer one, they are more than likely a kayak paddler and not a Surfski paddler.

You will initially be more comfortable in the rough with a shorter paddle.

An Epic mid wing is a good choice if you are to be demoing an Epic boat.
It is an easy paddle to use without any tendency to do funny things in the water if your stroke is a bit off.

If you are going to be doing mostly flat-water paddling and not chasing runs, at 265 pounds and taking into consideration that you may be a slower cadence, but physically strong paddler, as opposed to a paddler that has a faster cadence with a lot of rotation, you may also want to try the Epic Mid Wing+ or even the large Sprint Wing.

I was personally more comfortable using those larger wings when I first started out and am only now looking into a mid wing because I have lost weight, my cadence is now a little faster and my muscle structure has changed from being mostly strength based, to more endurance based.

Here's an interesting article on paddle length for surfski: www.slsa.com.au/site/_content/resource/00001013-docsource.pdf

Using the attached article via ErikE my ideal paddle length is 2082mm and I've been using 2090mm worked out from video analysis, so its within 8mm, very accurate formula for me anyway. I might reduce it to 2080 for awhile and see how it goes, also since changing my technique some I have not reviewed the length via video so might be interesting to do so again. Thanks ErikE.

I tried that one out a long time ago and from memory it told me 222cm, a length that makes me look like every other paddler, but way too low of a turnover speed and useless in the surf.

Any formula that has taller people using a longer paddle than shorter people for the same speed, overlooks the cadence requirement of taller people and I would suspect that it would probably have similar results at the other end of the spectrum by having shorties turning over too quickly.

Just like a broken clock, and every other formula proposed, it works for a portion of the population, but not for the rest, so it obviously doesn't address the real determinants of paddle lengths to a deep enough degree.

Well RAB 222cm is well off the graph so perhaps you could run your numbers again and double check, rather than discredit the paper without trying it with accurate measurements. Perhaps it suggested 212cm and as you prefer shorter paddle lengths (205cm from memory) this felt too long for you? Be interested in what you really come up with.

My measurements were accurate.
I have long arms, so that all formula that are based on arm length and use that input to make longer paddles as arm length gets longer, will never work.

The paddle cadence is simply too low for long arm paddlers with a boat speed in the normal range.

A big strong guy in a K1 over a short distance may very well get into a good operating range with a really long paddle, but for a less than stellar paddler in a slower surfski based on long distance pacing is way out of whack.

It also makes no concession to paddle type as in whether a paddle paddles long or short for it's length, nor to the stroke mechanics of the individual.

I have the numbers either written down or on a word document somewhere, I shall find them and let you redo the calculations.
Failing that, I will make some new not quite so perfect measurement by myself.

But in the end;

It simply doesn't work.
As with most things, it may do a good job with people that populate the centre of the bell curve, but the extreme ends amplify any inadequacies rather well.

Just as a quick bullshite exercise, I propose that everybody should use a 210cm paddle.
Doesn't matter you're height, strength, paddle type, gender, speed or boat you use.

Now run that past your mates and you will no doubt find that a large majority are very close to that figure.
Certainly within two or three percent, which is all the accuracy that most formulas claim.

I must be on to something eh.......

Now just to set some boundaries here.
I never discredited his work.

He took three mainstream theories and come up with what seems at first glance to be a better one.

I simply pointed out that it doesn't work well enough for a big portion of the population, therefore it does not fully encompass the true requirement for paddle length.

He acknowledged the limitations of his approach and the limited resources available in his own text.

And just to add, I come across this paper long ago when I was actually using a 220cm length.
At one stage I actually ordered a 215 to 225 paddle based on my then current length, the results of several formulas, and a bit of paddling with my paddle pushed past it's max length to try it out.

(It certainly gives me nice looking technique, but paddling that slow is just stupid.)

Because of the difficulty of sourcing the paddle, I had plenty of time to do some more experimenting and luckily found out that shorter paddles are way better and changed the order to a 205 to 215 based on that experimenting.

Yes if you look at the paper most paddlers would be around the 210cm mark thats why I questioned how you ended up with 222cm. Even Steven Ferguson who is 6'5" with arms longer than his height uses 210cm. You must have dimensions of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar or larger to get 222cm out of that graph I would think. I was able to get accurate measurements for myself within about 2mins of picking up my tape.

I don't have a 2m plus measuring tape in the house, I shall have to go dig through some packed up tools downstairs from moving.
Easier to find my old measurements......

From memory my wingspan is about 209cm.......

I've also got fairly long arms for my body hieght (195 / 188 cm), but for me the formula of the paper gave 212 cm which is about as correct as one can expect any formula to be; 212 is in fact what I after some experimentation had decided to use for surf ski even before reading the paper.

But RAB is probably correct that it might give clearly wrong results for some. I still belive it's better for most people than many traditional rules of thumb that's out there (and also better than "210 cm for everybody"). For example the "reach over the top technique" would give 232 cm for me.

Hey, my 210 formula worked for you!
You are within 2 % of my prediction!

Pretty good margin of error considering the amount of personal info I had to work with.
Imagine how close I could have got if I knew some measurements.........