Stroke rotation and collar bone problems

With all the great info I learned in the last thread, I thought I'd ask you all about a problem I've had off and on for several years.

When I paddle, my collar bone (clavicle) sometimes pops in and out of its socket at the top of the sternum. On some days it only happens a few times, some days its seems to happen on 80% of my strokes. It is more prevalent on the left clavicle, but also happens often on the right.

I have found this popping is most likely to occur when I am rotating my torso as far as I can (When I am fully stretching and contracting my trapezius and lats).

Example: As I pull my left paddle blade through the water the ball of my left clavicle smoothly protrudes from my chest. When I lift my left blade out of the water, the left clavicle rolls over my top rib. As I bring my left blade forward my clavicle abruptly pops back into place.

I don't feel any pain, and it doesn't seem like a load bearing joint. However it can be extremely annoying, and I am worried I could develop some inflammation in that area which could lead to pain, locking up.


Has anyone had experience with this? Maybe it is because of improper technique?

1st I have no experience with this i've never seen anyone do it.
However I can fairly safely say It's not your technique "causing" it. In a normal situation It shouldn't do this no matter what position you put your scapula in.
Whether this is genetic for you or the result of a previous injury, it is specific to you. generally we don't get too concerned with joints that move a little more than usual or click more than usual, provided it's not painful.
Inflammation is usually more likely when there are tendons or longer ligs running over the same area, which is not the case with the s-c joints
I would worry a little about a poss dislocation should you have a fall, get dumped, however I cant think of anyway to protect yourself from it.
There is also some risc of early degeneration of the joints given the movement is not normal for them.

The scap-ac joint-clavicle, basically acts in a similar way to swing arm style front end suspension so if the front bushing is flogged out when you try and pull back the front arm of the triangle sounds like it is pivoting over the rib and popping forward until it is raised above the rib and pops back,

I would try altering the height of the opposite arm, and timing of rot/with lat/rhomboid contraction, to see if there is a sweet spot where it happens less. This may not be the fastest stroke though.

I'll keep thinking about it during the day and push on a few shoulder and let you know if I come up with anything else.

Thank you,

Iv'e never injured my sc-joint to my knowledge, maybe genetic?
Odd thing is I used to be a competitive swimmer, and held a tight streamline (arms behind neck) very often (100s of times per practice) and never felt a pop. It only happened when I went kayaking.

Now, after 6 years of not swimming (regularly) my clavicles pop when I do the stream-line motion.

Recently I've made some gains in muscle strength on one arm lat pulls, is it possible this somehow "stretched out" the joint without me feeling any pain? (This popping problem seems more pronounce now than it has been before)


Looking at my kayak stroke, I think I found a way to avoid the popping:

On the reach, I can rotate and extend my shoulder as far as possible. As I pull, I can bring my shoulder down and back normally. The difference is in the recovery. Instead of lifting my whole shoulder up (with the upper trapezius) I lift the paddle out of the water with my deltoid and upper arm rotation. As I rotate through the stroke on the other side, the "top-hand" shoulder must remain low until just before the catch(where it extends up and forward, using the trapezius)

This seems to work ok "air" paddling with my hands. Tomorrow I'll try "air paddling" with an actual paddle. Then I'll test it on the water.

Please let me know if you have any other suggestions. (On the stroke, stretching, weight training etc.)

Thanks

Just throwing it out there, I have a seperated clavicle and found if my shoulders start to hunch (usually from trying to get just a little further forward on the catch) I can start to have problems. If I sit up straight and pull my shoulders back, it opens my chest and I don't have any issues. An added benefit of doing this is that it makes me concentrate on rotation to get a better catch.

Thanks for your post!

I've been doing the opposite, trying to keep my shoulders from going to far back. My clavicle clicks when I push forward, but only after I've pulled back.

I'll try keeping my clavicle "out" the whole time with my shoulders back.(Instean of trying to keep it "in" the whole time)

Is your clavicle separated at the sternum?

Thanks for your help

I think AR has a subluxed AC joint, the same as me.
Same bone, different end.

Correct me if I am wrong AR.

The single best thing I ever did was to shorten the paddle.

I would get numb fingers with a longer blade because of nerve compression, but the great offshoot of going to a shorter paddle was a complete disappearance of this due to my upper arm staying lower than the injured joint and not compressing the joint.


There are parts of the stroke that make my collar bone stick out and I assume that these would be the same movements that put pressure on yours and push it inwards.

Again, shorter paddle shows way less movement of the bone.