Think Uno big rudder stability? Stellar SE?

Anyone know if the big rudder helps with stability on the Uno Kevlar 12kg in choppy conditions?

This leads onto my next question

Regarding the Stellar SE Sport 16kg
Im
85kg
5`11`tall
Am I really too light/small for this ski?
Im not a big water skier, 2m max and 1 to 2m wind chop mainly. And the flat.

Also is the SE alot slower than the Uno?

Rudie

I don't know either the Uno or the Steller skis, but in my experience, big rudders seldom help with stability; in fact, they usually add to tippiness.

More aggressive rudders come into their own in downwind paddling where they help with manoeuvrability. For example, I much prefer the handling of boats like the Mako6, Fenn Swordfish, V10 Sport with a larger "surf" rudder.

Some guys here in SA have experimented with skegs in an effort to improve stability.

Here's some more on this topic:
All you wanted to know about rudders but were afraid to ask

Is it fair to say that a larger elliptical rudder helps stability until it is employed, ie. it works like a skeg?

Because the large elliptical rudder is so much more effective and promotes a rolling motion and sideways movement of the tail, the actual use of the rudder may result in increased tippiness (at least until you get used to the feeling of it).

Thus, with larger elliptical rudders it is important to set the rudder pedals flat relative to the footboard and focus on heel/leg drive to avoid inadvertent rudder input .

Rudie,
Have a look at www.surfskiracing.com and find the Stellar SEL review for info on the SE/SEL.

Is it fair to say that a larger elliptical rudder helps stability until it is employed, ie. it works like a skeg?

Possibly! Thinking back on paddling out to Bakoven rock at the beginning of a Millers run, sideways on to wind and waves, I don't think my Mako Elite felt any more stable with the elliptical rudder - if anything, slightly less stable.

But if it is true, it's probably beneficial to have a rudder set up using cable rather than line - the rudder on the V10 for example turns extremely easily, whereas the rudder on the Fenn (which uses steel cable) requires some force to turn it.

In any case, I'd say definitely set the rudder pedals flat to avoid unwanted rudder input.

My experience with a lot of rudders from many manufacturers including Think, Epic, Stellar, Huki is that the bigger the rudder the more stable. Most of these rudders have been the swept back models with the exception of the Epic elliptical. So for years I have fussed over what rudder to use for varying New England conditions and it depends on the layup of the ski(lighter less stable). So for example when Stellar came out recently with the 9 inch rudder I replaced the 8 inch and put it on my 22lbs SES and was noticably more stable which I wanted for winter paddling. Now with spring here I will alternate between the 8inch and the 9 inch. At the Snow Race this past Saturday, I was in my SES Excel with the 9inch rudder then before the race due to milder conditions I put the 8 inch back on and probably could have gone even shorter with my cut off 5 inch but not the Stellar 4 inch.

With my SEL's I have only used the 4inch rudder since the ski is so stable. When I had my Uno, I had to used one of the 7in or 8in swept back rudder in the ocean. My Carbon Evo I primary use the tiny/skinny 5inch since the ski is so stable and we don't get much true downwind here in New England mostly chop/slop or flatter conditions. When I had my V12 I only used the standard rudder but when I had my V10L's I used the big elliptical rudders and found them to be more stable as well, however they are massive weed magnets. When I had all my Huki's I had every rudder they made. So the common theme has been the bigger the rudder the more stable the ski is and the compromise is less speed. Stabilty before speed though.

So if the manufacturer offers different rudders buy a few of them and experiment for you particular conditions and stability of your skis. The nice thing about all the stellar boats is that all the rudders fit all the boat models which is great. I can switch from the SEL to the SES to the SR. I was able to do this with the Think boats as well at least in the later models when the rudders became more standardized. The older thinks boats had various shaft differences, etc or had to be cut.

I've paddle the Uno with 5", 7" and 9" fins and honestly can't tell the difference in stability. The 9" is far more aggressive on the tail if you use a lot of pedal though.

Playing with the foot straps resulted in increased stability levels on the Uno, but that's down to basic paddling technique and being able to apply more power as a result of cycling the boat better.

From my experience the larger rudder does feel more stable in flat water but with any sort of wave then you don't notice this extra stability as much because of the other factors (ie.wave). One thing for certain though is you will soon know if you go too small a rudder in waves!
For me the Think Legend behaved oddly at times in waves regardless. I can add the SEL is one stable ski and so far it has behaved for me regardless of the conditions.

The SE would be marginally slower than the uno, but is a lot more stable.
In flat water the uno will pull ahead, paddle out into the chop and the se will be a lot more fun. Both good boats.
I reckon the bigger rudder is more stable in the flat or small chop, but will throw the boat around more when you turn. The thing is it is predictable. So while it may be unstable because of the speed at which the boat rocks when it turns, you know it's going to happen and you adjust after a couple of paddles.

Flat water = small rudder. Downwind = larger rudder. Not rocket science.

"Flat water = small rudder. Downwind = larger rudder. Not rocket science."

Correct but my experience with Think Evo, Legend and SEL we can extend this to: Flat water with more stability but speed loss = larger rudder....... Downwind = larger rudder yes...but how large depends on personal preference. The larger the quicker the response for a given input. Take Think rudders for example elite paddlers use the 9 inch others the 10.
For those who don't see the larger rudder increases stability then all I can add is I know of a butchered ski which has a centreboard. Without the board it is twitchy with the board down stability increases so dramatically it is obvious to anyone who paddles it.
No the centreboard is not weighted...it is super light being balsa core with carbon fibre on the outside; certainly not acting as a weighted "keel".

Thanks guys
So it appears a bit of hit or miss re the rudder size and stability, so will have to find out for myself.


Regarding my other original question and the SE and my 80/85kg body weight, is it too big for me? Can get a SE Excel like new for the price of just less than a new SEL,SES SE Sport.
Will it be too hard to handle in the wind and will i feel like a cork bobbing along and get thrown around because my weight might be to light for it?
Rudie

I think the SEL would be a better option. Even the sport stellars are fairly light. Even Big Al who's carbon SE weighs 130kg when he sits in it reckons his boat is affected by the wind.
It depends where you live. If it's windy go the low volume, if conditions are more moderate go the light SE. Also check the cockpit feel in both boats cos they might be quite different.

rudie wrote: Will it be too hard to handle in the wind and will i feel like a cork bobbing along and get thrown around because my weight might be to light for it?
Rudie

I paddled one in a around 15-20knot winds and definately felt like I was being pushed around when going across the wind and I weigh around 86kg.

Cheers
I will look at the SEL.
Rudie

cdo wrote: "Flat water = small rudder. Downwind = larger rudder. Not rocket science."

Correct but my experience with Think Evo, Legend and SEL we can extend this to: Flat water with more stability but speed loss = larger rudder....... Downwind = larger rudder yes...but how large depends on personal preference. The larger the quicker the response for a given input. Take Think rudders for example elite paddlers use the 9 inch others the 10.

To be very honest, I have sold very few of the 10" fins, purely because everyone finds the 9" more than enough for downwind conditions. The 9" fins fly off the shelf here. Personally, I have never felt the need to fit a bigger 10" fin, no matter how big the conditions.

On flatter days, the 7" works great, and for harbour conditions and rivers the 5" works really well.

My experience indicates that in very sloppy conditions, the deep surf rudders add more roll damping, as long as you do not play the peddles and keep a reasonably straight course. As soon as the peddles are pushed too hard (knee jerk reactions), then the added moment arm of the deeper rudder will torque the ski transversely (dynamically induced roll). With the somewhat high-strung personality and sometimes wandering nature of the E-V12 in multi-chop, a deeper rudder is great if the paddler is already well fatigued but can input smooth rudder control. In the heavy multidirectional chop, the slightly greater drag of the larger rudder isn't noticable at all.