Double Ski choice

I am considering getting a double so as to get my 12 y/o daughter out training and hopefully get her confident in ocean conditions so she will take her single ski out (currently only paddles within a 100m or so of the coast).

I guess my ski choice will be limited mainly by my balance, I am solid in an intermediate ski. What ski's are there on the market at present and what would people recommend.

This is Kiwial's reply to me asking what ski he is paddling in his profile pic.

kiwial wrote: THat double is the Carbonology Viva, an absolute dream of a double. That is my 11 year old daughter in back and she loves heading down wind with me!!

I'd venture to say that the first 100m from the shore are the hardest and most likely to put you in the water.......

Rightarmbad wrote: I'd venture to say that the first 100m from the shore are the hardest and most likely to put you in the water.......

That would be true of a lot of coastline...BUT

The prevailing SW winds here(referred to in summer as the "Fremantle doctor") mean my local beach (facing North) is quite often calm. The water depth increases significantly once you are about 20 metres off the beach.

I'd suggest either the Fenn Elite double or the Fenn XT double. If you're stable and paddle a top end single ski yourself then the Elite would be fine, if you want to play it safe then go for the XT. I own an Elite single and an Elite double and I often take kids in the back without any stability problems. The weight differential between the adult and the youngster plus the fact that kids pick it up amazingly quickly make the Elite double a good option, and you can always race it too! Double skis are very popular here in SA, and for good reason, and I see their popularity growing throughout the world.

I've got a Fenn Elite double and its stable enough to take a beginner or kid with you, but the big plus is that you can race also with that same ski. It accelerates quickly, ride swells amazingly and is fast but still kind of stable! I haven’t got any balance problems and using a Fenn Elite single and K1 on the rivers. Otherwise the Fenn XT will be my second choice. Doubles are a good way to introduce someone new to the sport of surfski'ing and its lots of fun!! Enjoy!!

Looking at what is currently available in Western Australia, what can you Saffa's tell me about the Vision Double, havent seen one in the flesh but a local retailer has one in their website. This is what they say about it on the local site.

This is a fantastic double ski. It is relatively stable but very fast. It's very comfortable to paddle and the rudder and foot pedals work very well. The Vision would be home on the river and on the ocean. It is more suited to the intermediate to experienced paddlers if taken on the ocean. The hull has good volume and a full tail, enabling it to run well and making it quick through the surf-line. The middle deck also has good volume and this combined with the cowling makes the wells very dry. The volume in the tail of the ski prevents the back paddler from wobbling when the ski picks up on a run. This helps to keep the ski comfortable for both paddlers.

The footrests are both fully adjustable whilst sitting in the ski. It has a venturi self bailing system, juice bag holders, grab handles and a cockpit cowlings as a standard feature.

Anyone got any opinion on the Custom Kayaks Apex double?

I have been lucky enough to paddle the elite double (my own), the vision and the xt double.

Elite is great if you want to race and know its not your boats potential that is holding you back. If your planned partners are likely to have good balance then that's your ski.

The vision is quick but we found it to have a distinct lack of secondary stability. The elite is twitchy but always recoverable. The vision gets off balance and then just seems to keep rolling. We raced this ski for a season and never got the stability dialled in any kind of decent sea. Flat water it's deadly fast. Not my first choice.

The xt is friendly and works really well but is tough to be competitive in.

The apex 2 was a complete surprise. Initially it felt like I was in a barge as it feels like a big boat and I found it as stable as the xt. But it is still quick and the apex 2 has won a few races here in SA. It's not as quick as the elite or the vision but it would be my first choice for a family boat that I could also race.

Thanks Rob, sounds like the Apex is a good compromise then, will have to check it out.

I'm an older but experienced paddler. I have an xt and have also paddled the elite. The xt is the perfect all rounder. You'll find you can paddle with everyone in the xt where the elite will limit your company to the more experienced.

These boats hold their value well. I'd go with the more stable, particularly in rougher conditions you can hammer the xt.

Neil

hi, I would always go for stablity over speed particularly when it come to family. you want your kid to love the sport not be concerned every time they go out. As for me I would strongly recommend the Apex. I have the Apex1 and have paddled with complete novice adults through the KZN backline and they came away loving it. My wife has finally agreed to race with me and she hates the idea of swimming in deep water - speaks volumes about the boat. The Apex2 has a number of great improvements (more comfortable seats for example) so I would recommend it or the XT. there will always be time to upgrade in a couple of years. Plus please think about when your daughter wants to paddle with a friend - which boat would you feel more comfortable with then?

hi, I would always go for stablity over speed particularly when it come to family. you want your kid to love the sport not be concerned every time they go out. As for me I would strongly recommend the Apex. I have the Apex1 and have paddled with complete novice adults through the KZN backline and they came away loving it. My wife has finally agreed to race with me and she hates the idea of swimming in deep water - speaks volumes about the boat. The Apex2 has a number of great improvements (more comfortable seats for example) so I would recommend it or the XT. there will always be time to upgrade in a couple of years. Plus please think about when your daughter wants to paddle with a friend - which boat would you feel more comfortable with then?

Rookie,

Couldn't agree more, wise words.

Nice to see a thread on double skis. It would be good to see more doubles out racing. I think it is a good way to mix things up. In the larger "markets" (Aus, SA), it would be good to see if a doubles only series would work.

To the question at hand, I owned a Fenn Elite Double and traded it for a Fenn XT Double (in carbon). I liked that the XT allowed for a broader range of paddlers (novice to advanced). Also, if you are headed out into the ocean, you can really hammer the XT. Of course, plenty of folks can also hammer the Elite, but it can be a handful for even intermediate paddlers in my experience.

I have been pleased with the XT, especially in Carbon as it is very light and responds well. But, the captain's bucket is made for a giant and the hump is from hell if you are a smaller paddler. I am 173cm and 64kgs and I really don't fit up front (foot plate all the way forward, hump against the calves), but have learned to make do. The upshot is that I like the XT Double for the family and also think that it holds its own racing in all but dead flat conditions (and even then this is not a slow boat). But, best for the designated captain to have a good test paddle before buying.

Now, all of that said, the release of the Epic Double is imminent. I would wait to try that boat before buying anything. Stability could be like the V10 or the V10 Sport - and there is a world of difference in those boats as many of us know.

I got into the Epic V10 Double for a couple of minutes at the Dragon Run in Hong Kong with Greg Barton.

We just paddled out and back on flat water but I could tell that a) the boat is very stable and b) it's comfortable (which of course is a subjective thing!)

Here's a little marketing video made for Epic by Rambo at Dragon Run. It features Oscar Chalupsky and Greg Barton talking up the boat.

Oscar and Greg with the new V10 Double

robin.mousley wrote: Greg Barton talking up the boat.

"Two advanced paddlers or two intermediate paddlers or one advanced and one beginner paddler".

Looking forward to hearing some comparisons to other more well tested/known ski's.

Interesting that Epic with all of their resources, still have the tennis ball mod on their bailers.

Surely they could get one made that is surf ski specific.

I must admit I like it because it looks like no other double on the market. Agree on the tennis ball but love the functionality.

Flat water 19kph????? Just when I thought I was doing ok

The tennis ball treatment of the bailer would be difficult and expensive to improve upon. For my V12-U, I've come up with several different bailer handles in Divinicell/'glass and Divinicell/Carbon, and they've all worked with varying degrees of success. Two of the examples may function handier than the ball, but on a functionality/cost basis, the tennis ball out performs them all. Plus, the ball gives the appearance that the paddler put more time into training than pimping.

Mole: If you took a look at a chart of the Cr (Coefficient of resistance) for the volumetric Froude numbers of the V10 double compared to a V10 or V12, then you would not be so suprised by their seemingly high speed. No doubt their training and skills help, too.